Dropped kerb priority

[Number6]

I think this is the most appropriate forum in which to post this.

 

Who has priority over or along a stretch of pavement that is fronted to the road by a dropped kerb? A pedestrian on the pavement or a vehicle accessing via the dropped kerb?

 

A dropped kerb, so long as it is officially recorded as such by the highways department is part of the highway and this is the reason why you cannot park so as to block any driveway accessed via a dropped kerb.

 

The question only ocurred to me today when I was walking across the entrance to a petrol station and some moron came wheelspinning out with no intention of stopping for me or anyone else!

 

Does anyone know?

 

Pete

[Bookworm]

From the Highway Code:

 

 

182: Drive carefully and slowly when

• in crowded shopping streets or residential areas
  
• driving past bus and tram stops; pedestrians may emerge suddenly into the road
  
• passing parked vehicles, especially ice cream vans; children are more interested in ice cream than traffic and may run into the road unexpectedly
  
• needing to cross a pavement; for example, to reach a driveway. Give way to pedestrians on the pavement

;-)

[POCA]

Actually, a highway is "all roads, bridges, carriageways, cartways, horseways, bridleways, footways, causeways, churchways, and pavements." (s. 5 of the Highways Act 1835) and "the whole or a part of a highway other than a ferry or waterway." (s. 328 of the Highways Act 1980).

 

Thus, all of the carriageway and all of the pavement is a "highway", not just places with dropped kerbs.

 

A person driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place must not do so carelessly or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or public place (s. 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988). So, a drive cannot just claim "right of way" by "right of might" and carelessly scatter pedestrians.

 

However, there is no strict answer to your question, though a driver would probably be considered careless if he ran over a pedestrian, especially on a pavement, dropped kerb or not.

 

The Highway Code is not law, merely a guide, but can be taken into consideration when deciding a matter of "carelessness".

[Bookworm]

a driver would probably be considered careless if he ran over a pedestrian, especially on a pavement, dropped kerb or not.

 

You think????

[POCA]

I am a master of understatement!

[Tinkerbelle]

182: Drive carefully and slowly when

• in crowded shopping streets or residential areas
  
• driving past bus and tram stops; pedestrians may emerge suddenly into the road
  
• passing parked vehicles, especially ice cream vans; children are more interested in ice cream than traffic and may run into the road unexpectedly
  
• needing to cross a pavement; for example, to reach a driveway. Give way to pedestrians on the pavement

~

I should tell this to the old man who speeds along the pavement outside at Nigel Mansel speeds in a motorised wheelchair, sending pensioners, pedestrians and babies in buggies flying!

 

Instead of slowing down he's got a horn on the thing that he toots!

 

God forbid anyone gets in his way, on his journey to the pub:rolleyes:

[breadline]

Bit on but off topic:D

 

I had the highways department out to my new drop kerb, as i had paid cash and wanted answers.

 

As i was shocked at how many people thought

" oh look a new drop kerb lets park on it".

 

I wanted to know why someone could park on my purchased materials and i wanted to know my rights.

 

Basically thier very small and insignificant.

 

you are not allowed to shove pedestrians out of the way with your bumper, even if they are 80 and doing 0 miles an hour.

 

and if someone blocks you in you have squat chance of having them removed Unless you have a neighbor with a vehicle called Massey Ferguson:D

[thewifeandI]

I've always understood that a pedestrian has right of way over traffic crossing the footpath. A pedestrian crossing a sidestreet has right of way over traffic turning into it (if they have already started crossing).

 

A dropped kerb is usually to access a driveway by crossing the pavement. Garage forecourts tend to have proper entrance ramps except in a few situations. Either way the pedestrian has right of way, especially if they have already started crossing when the vehicle arrives.

[Number6]

 

and if someone blocks you in you have squat chance of having them removed Unless you have a neighbor with a vehicle called Massey Ferguson:D

 

Or in my case Toyota Landcruiser with big rockslider bumpers, towing straps, lifted suspension and 37" wheels

 

Pete

[patdavies]

But you should also remember that in such a coming together, the pedestrian will always lose.

 

"He had Right of Way" is no good to you if it's written on your tombstone

[Tinkerbelle]

But you should also remember that in such a coming together, the pedestrian will always lose.

 

"He had Right of Way" is no good to you if it's written on your tombstone

 

I know I shouldn't laugh.......

[Number6]

But you should also remember that in such a coming together, the pedestrian will always lose.

 

"He had Right of Way" is no good to you if it's written on your tombstone

 

Understood and agreed!

 

I only raised the matter out of idle curiosity really.

 

Pete

[Number6]

 

I wanted to know why someone could park on my purchased materials and i wanted to know my rights.

 

 

and if someone blocks you in you have squat chance of having them removed Unless you have a neighbor with a vehicle called Massey Ferguson:D

 

Technically you should not park so as to obstruct a dropped kerb entrance, if you do then you are obstructing the highway and you can complain to plod. By the time they come out the offending vehicle will have gone anyway.

 

Most people know better than to obstruct my driveway There are several, obviously battle-scarred off-road vehicles on it any one of which could happily push most passenger cars out of the way without even noticing

 

Pete

[POCA]

I've always understood that a pedestrian has right of way over traffic crossing the footpath. A pedestrian crossing a sidestreet has right of way over traffic turning into it (if they have already started crossing).

 

A dropped kerb is usually to access a driveway by crossing the pavement. Garage forecourts tend to have proper entrance ramps except in a few situations. Either way the pedestrian has right of way, especially if they have already started crossing when the vehicle arrives.

 

That is not, however, law. Only convention and common sense.

 

And to those tempted, please don't go pushing other people's vehicles around. I don't particularly like arresting folk for bloody minded criminal damage.

[Number6]

That is not, however, law. Only convention and common sense.

 

And to those tempted, please don't go pushing other people's vehicles around. I don't particularly like arresting folk for bloody minded criminal damage.

 

Of course.

 

But what does one do when someone parks across ones driveway? Last time it happened to me I called the local police who said they'd get someone out "in a few hours"! I was unable to leave to get to work.

 

Pete

[POCA]

Of course.

 

But what does one do when someone parks across ones driveway? Last time it happened to me I called the local police who said they'd get someone out "in a few hours"! I was unable to leave to get to work.

 

Pete

 

Frustrating I know. But not much of a defence when you're up for criminal damage. Anyway, the police generally can't remove the vehicle unless it is causing danger.

[Number6]

Frustrating I know. But not much of a defence when you're up for criminal damage. Anyway, the police generally can't remove the vehicle unless it is causing danger.

 

No, maybe not.

 

But if the police did attend they could at least slap on a parking ticket, or maybe obstructing the highway; that might make the driver think twice next time. As it is they know they can do it with impunity and so do it time after time.

 

Pete

[POCA]

No, maybe not.

 

But if the police did attend they could at least slap on a parking ticket, or maybe obstructing the highway; that might make the driver think twice next time. As it is they know they can do it with impunity and so do it time after time.

 

Pete

 

Obstruction...of me or the highway, always a good one to use!

[freebird]

Pete, interesting thread.......

legal points noted and frustration of yourself as a pedestrian and householder who's dropped kerb it is.

Of course the Law is right but this doesn't stop you from feeling really peeved when it happens to you.

I have been driving for 30 years now and I also have access probs out side my house for my daughter who's disabled so I know where you're coming from......

the problem is there's so many prats driving out there and yes lots of them are bully's so when they get behind the wheel, their personaility is there....handling a machine which can kill...so I give in every time.....whether the law's on my side or not.........as a pedestrian I'm aware of them and their power and as a driver I get "cut in" and totally abused..daily...............it's all so stress ful but you've got to just look out for yourself and "yours" now and just ry to keep out of the way of all the bully's in life.........

[Number6]

It is frustrating sometimes Freebird, and doubly so when you try and stay within the law and the police have no manpower to do anything so it's the victim that suffers, not the perpetrator.

 

The funny thing is though, since I started keeping the winch-and-steel-girder-bumper-equipped Landcruiser on the road conveniently next to my drive no-one seems to want to park anywhere near it. Can't understand why.

 

Pete

[freebird]

pmsl

[Number6]

Frustrating I know. But not much of a defence when you're up for criminal damage. Anyway, the police generally can't remove the vehicle unless it is causing danger.

 

What about Action likely to cause a Breach of the Peace? I'm sure there's all sorts of ways and means that the police could sort out stuff like this.... but it all seems like too much trouble for them.

 

Totally OT now but what's happened to offences like Action Likely to cause a Breach of the Peace and Drunk and Disorderly in a Public Place?? Most town centres on a weekend night (or increasingly any night) are infested with drunken yobs and binge drinking is an acknowledged big problem so why don't the police simply arrest any and all drunks and slap a Drunk and Disorderly on them?

 

Pete

[POCA]

What about Action likely to cause a Breach of the Peace? I'm sure there's all sorts of ways and means that the police could sort out stuff like this.... but it all seems like too much trouble for them.

 

Totally OT now but what's happened to offences like Action Likely to cause a Breach of the Peace and Drunk and Disorderly in a Public Place?? Most town centres on a weekend night (or increasingly any night) are infested with drunken yobs and binge drinking is an acknowledged big problem so why don't the police simply arrest any and all drunks and slap a Drunk and Disorderly on them?

 

Pete

 

Good lord. I don't want to enter into a general defence of the police service, because some of what we do is indefensible. However, I'll try to address your points.

 

There's absolutely no way, in this day and age, that I could do anything to someone who's left their car across your drive for breach of the peace. If anything, it'd be your actions in remonstrating with them that would cause a breach of the peace.

 

As to town centres on a weekend night (and any night, increasingly) there just isn't the manpower. If a crew of two locked up a person for drunk and disorderly, they'd be off the street for a good few hours. So what? you might say. Well, what happens when a real, honest to God emergency happens and all officers are in custody?

 

And being drunk in itself (whilst a crime in a public place) does not necessarily equate to being drunk and disorderly. Are you "noisy, violent and quarrelsome" every time you've had a few too many?

 

There's no simple answer to the problem, but the simple answer to your question is that there aren't enough front-line police officers to lock up every person who's disorderly, nor would it necessarily be lawful and proportionate to do so.

[Number6]

Good lord. I don't want to enter into a general defence of the police service, because some of what we do is indefensible. However, I'll try to address your points.

 

There's absolutely no way, in this day and age, that I could do anything to someone who's left their car across your drive for breach of the peace. If anything, it'd be your actions in remonstrating with them that would cause a breach of the peace.

 

As to town centres on a weekend night (and any night, increasingly) there just isn't the manpower. If a crew of two locked up a person for drunk and disorderly, they'd be off the street for a good few hours. So what? you might say. Well, what happens when a real, honest to God emergency happens and all officers are in custody?

 

And being drunk in itself (whilst a crime in a public place) does not necessarily equate to being drunk and disorderly. Are you "noisy, violent and quarrelsome" every time you've had a few too many?

 

There's no simple answer to the problem, but the simple answer to your question is that there aren't enough front-line police officers to lock up every person who's disorderly, nor would it necessarily be lawful and proportionate to do so.

 

I guess you are correct but theirin lies the problem; I am stuck on my driveway unable to go about my lawful business and therefore penalised while prathead that blocked my drive gets away scot free.

 

Something has to be done to "reclaim the streets" IMHO. It's been a very long time since I would even contemplate going into, or anywhere near my local town centre after 7pm on a Friday or saturday evening, certainly not with my wife or kids with me anyhow.

 

There is a general and rapidly increasing air of lawlessness everywhere one turns.

 

Pete

[POCA]

I agree. However, we must work with the laws we're given. If Parliament decided to make it an offence to park in front of a dropped kerb and gave me a power to remove an offending vehicle, I would.

 

As to the other issue, I have no idea how to solve it.