@argoshelpers UKPC Parking Charge When Collecting Heavy Argos Purchase

[CurlyMops]

I Parked at the rear of Argos whilst I went straight to Argos to pay for the item.

 

 

It had already been ordered on line.

 

 

I was gone for no more than 5 or 10 minutes.

 

 

When I returned to my car, there was a UKPC parking charge on the windscreen.

 

I had parked a few yards away from the collection entrance as there was already a car there, and I didn't want to block any ones way.

 

 

It was a Sunday and very quiet. There were plenty of other parking spaces available.

 

The ticket on my windscreen states "A Parking charge of £ is outstanding" ....... there is no figure printed there,

but if you look VERY closely, the printed amount is on the line below and mingles with further text so cannot be easily seen.

 

I have a receipt from Argos for the item purchased, whose date and time is one minute away from the one on the parking ticket.

 

I went back into Argos to complain, but the girl said it was nothing to do with them as it was not their land.

 

 

I've also contacted Argos help on line .... and been told to sort it out with the parking company. I've also rung CAB for their advice.

 

I've read some of the threads on here and feel more optimistic.

 

 

Am I right in thinking that I need to wait for UKPC to write to me before doing anything?

 

 

I realise that this would mean I might have to pay the £100, rather than the £60 (which is buried in the text)

 

Any help gratefully received.

 

 

Whatever the outcome though, my view of Argos has plummeted.

 

 

Also, an elderly gentleman who parked at the same time as myself, got a parking ticket too.

 

they must have been rubbing their hands together that day!

 

The signage did say do not leave your car unattended,

but I assumed that Argos owned the land,

and being as they tell you to go around the back,

that it would be alright to park there to pay for the item.

 

Apologies for the length of this, but I wanted to give all the facts.

 

Thank you

 

P.S.

The area I parked in has signs saying "No Unauthorised Parking". It was not a car park you bought a ticket to use.

 

My parking Charge states "Parked in a permit area without displaying a valid permit"

[CurlyMops]

Thank You Dx100uk,

I've never tried to argue against a parking ticket before, and it does scare me, but with the support and guidance, I reckon I can do this!

Many thanks!

[CurlyMops]

Thank you Silverfox1961,

I'll do what has been suggested on this site, and try not to think about "what if I fail" ...... for that is how they manage to get all that money out of people. I'm sure that the elderly gentleman who had a fine / invoice at the same time as I did, would go on to pay it. I, on the other hand was Livid! I'm actually MORE cross at the lack of help offered by Argos. I can't help but feel that I'm left with a nasty taste in my mouth.

If I had a business, I would be mortified if my customers had to go through this, and would want to help them every step of the way. Still ....... you have to experience the rough to appreciate the smooth in life eh?!

Thank you once again for your support. it is much appreciated.

No doubt I'll be back to double check that my wording is all correct when I communicate with these .... errr ...... (trying to think of suitable / printable adjective) ..... disreputable creatures!

[CurlyMops]

Thank you ericsbrother - I'm so grateful for the support and advice. I'll post on the site when I hear from them. I was so worried, and unsure about what to do, before I found this site. What I feel is really helpful here, is that the information is specific, and it explains WHY and how to work through the system.

I have to admit to feeling a little smug at the thought of information / intelligence winning over the greed of others! Oh Joy!

Thank you once again for your help and taking the time to reply, it is very much appreciated.

[CurlyMops]

DragonFly1967, you have a point.

One way of helping might be to put a sign up on their wall stating that even though they tell you to park there, you WILL get a parking ticket, followed by the web address of this site which will help you to deal with it.

The staff in the shop are so lovely, and I'm left with mixed feelings about whether to use the shop again or not.

No doubt if their prices are the lowest, then I'll be tempted ..... then arrive back on here with another parking ticket??!!!

[CurlyMops]

armadillo71,

That's an idea - I'll think about that! Thank you!

[CurlyMops]

CH7 1AP is the post code. There is a road off to the left, just after the parked van on the left.

The rear area supports many buildings. Most are little shops, Argos being the biggest one.

[CurlyMops]

DragonFly1967, Yes, I think I'll do that. It will make me feel better to get it off my chest!

I'll do that over the next few days. It'll take me a while to get the tone right.

Thank you

[CurlyMops]

Well, I've received their 'Notice to Keeper', and today I appealed the charge on line .... here is a copy .... I hope that I worded it correctly.

 

 

"I was parked for business, merely collecting a heavy item from Argos.

 

 

I enclose the receipt as proof.

 

 

I was there for a very short time, around 5 - 10 minutes, as you can see, there is one minute's difference between the time on your paperwork, and the time on my receipt.

 

 

The time the vehicle was parked was well within the discretionary period allowed by the BPA's Code of Practice.

 

 

In view of these circumstances, I request that you cancel the charge, or supply me with the POPLA code and appeal form, in order for me to take this further."

 

 

I'll be glad when this is over ...... it feels like a black cloud hanging over me.

Thank you once again for all the support you've given me to get me this far .... still much appreciated,

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Julie

[CurlyMops]

Aww, thank you Beesnees and Billy's mate. I'm sure you're right. I'll let you know when I hear from them.

In the mean time, I'll put it out of my mind ...... in fact, I've enough to think about since starting a new course! :o)

Thank you so much for the cheery reply Bees ..... it helps to hear from those who know more about the process. When it's your first time, it feels daunting. Who knows, in time it'll be ME helping other people through the system! Oh Joy! :o)

 

 

Kind regards,

Julie :o)

[CurlyMops]

The Ticket is dated 22 - 3 -2015

I received the NTK on 24 April 2015

 

 

I must have misunderstood how to proceed .... sigh.

 

 

I'm afraid I don't understand the sentence:

"and have made their mistake of issuing their demands incorrectly redundant"

It sounds like I've made a right mess of something which I thought I'd understood.

 

 

All advice gratefully appreciated,

Kind regards,

 

 

Julie

[CurlyMops]

Thank you Plodder and Beesnees .... It's so kind of everyone to take the time to post on here in order to help me. It feels like an emotional roller coaster sorting this out, but I feel better knowing that there is help here.

Rest assured that I'll check in here, before having any more dealings with the Parking Company.

I really can't thank you enough,

 

 

With kind regards,

Julie :o)

[CurlyMops]

Well, I've received the letter from the parking company (as expected) on 5th June.

It contains the POPLA reference number.

They are telling me that they are in the right, but I can appeal if I want to. They are reducing the fee back down to £60 if I pay now, or it will go up to £100 if POPLA do not go in my favour.

Before I get in touch with POPLA, I thought it would be wise to check with you all to make sure that I do not miss anything out, and any hints and tips to help me.

Thank you all once again for your time and patience,

 

 

With kind regards,

Julie

[CurlyMops]

Thank you so much for your replies ..... I'm a bit confused about asking to see the contract? Would I be asking the parking company for this? Also .... if they were so convinced that they are in the right, then why have they dropped the fine to £60? If they are convinced they are in the right, and it has now cost them money, then my instincts tell me that they'd go for the £100.

 

 

Their letter states "we have investigated your appeal based on the information you have submitted and confirm that this Parking Charge was correctly issued because there are sufficient signs at the Daniel Owen Shopping Precinct warning drivers that should they park their vehicle without displaying a valid permit this will result in a Parking Charge being issued to the vehicle"

 

 

I'll spend some time wording my letter to POPLA, then put it on here, to check that I have done it correctly, if that is alright? It'll take me a while to word it correctly though.

 

 

Thank you all once again,

Kind regards,

 

 

Julie

[CurlyMops]

Well then,

 

Thank you all for the information and support re: POPLA.

 

 

I've tried to condense all the information in to a letter, which I'll put on here for you to see.

 

 

Hopefully I've not misunderstood any of it, or missed bits out .

... If I have, please feel free to let me know, and I'll correct it.

 

 

My intention is to email it to POPLA on Monday.

I've been putting off writing this letter, as whilst I can talk the hind legs off a donkey,

when it comes to putting my thoughts on to paper, it takes me a damn sight longer!!!

 

 

Must be a throw back from having bright red and green pen marks scrawled all over my work at school,

though hopefully it helped me to 'get it right' in the end.

 

Here it is then ..... I await your thoughts :o)

 

Dear POPLA

 

I am writing to you for your help.

 

I have been issued with a Parking Charge, and have been in contact with UKPC to explain that I had permission from Argos to be there, (with proof),

but they still want me to pay the parking charge. I am therefore writing to you for your help to sort this out.

 

On 22 - 3 - 2015, I visited the rear entrance of Argos, in order for me to pay for, and collect a heavy and bulky item which I had ordered on line.

 

It was a Sunday, the car park had many empty spaces, was very quiet, and I was there for a very short time, around 5 – 10 minutes,

whilst I went in to the shop to pay for the item, and to let them know that I was parked at the rear entrance for them to put the item in to my car.

 

 

When I returned to my car, the parking charge ticket had been placed on my windscreen.

 

 

I went back in to the shop to tell them, and ask them to sort it out, but was told that the land did not belong to them, and it was nothing to do with them.

If that is the case, then I could not understand why they were telling me that it was alright to pick the item up from their back door.

 

I enclose the receipt as proof of my business there, and as you can see, there is just one minutes difference between the time on the receipt

, and the time the parking charge was issued.

 

The receipt states at the bottom, that I should "Collect your goods from the back door", which is what I was doing. .

The time the vehicle was parked was well within the discretionary period allowed by the BPA's Code of Practice.

 

The car park was not one where you needed to buy a ticket.

The amount of the Parking Charge of £60 (now £100) bears no relation to the genuine pre-estimate of any losses that UKPC could have conceivably incurred.

I would like to see the contract that defines the legal relationship between the landowner and UKPC.

 

I dispute that any contract exists between myself and UKPC under which they could pursue me for any damages,

as I cannot see where I have caused them any loss.

 

I do so hope that you can help me to sort this out.

 

I am enclosing copies of the receipt as proof of my business to be where I was, for the short time it took to enable me to pay for,

and have the item placed in my car.

 

If you need any further information, please feel free to contact me.

 

I look forward to hearing from you,

 

Kind Regards, ... etc.

[CurlyMops]

Thank you Beesnees and Armadillo71 :o)

 

 

I've taken on board your comments, and re-jigged my letter to incorporate everything you've said. Your time taken to help me (and indeed everyone else who has contributed!) has been much appreciated.

I've sent my appeal off, along with copies of the receipt and the thing which was stuck to my windscreen (ticket / charge / hopeful invoice ....?)

I'll let you know how I get on.

If I fail, it will be interesting to see what tricks they have when it comes to getting Blood out of a Stone!

Thank you all once again,

With kind regards,

Julie :o)

[CurlyMops]

Good Evening,

I've just received an email from POPLA which says it's for information only. It's 35 pages long, and consists of the information I've given them and the information the parking company have given them. The parking company are saying that Argos had no right to tell me to park behind the shop, as they do not own the land. they also go on to quote all sorts of things ...... cases which have been taken to court where it's been decided that it is ok to charge the amounts .. and on and on. Most of it is in a 'law lingo', which is totally alien to me. It's about time they were made to use language that people can understand.

I'm going to assume that I don't have to do anything at this point. I'll await the conclusion.

If I get made to pay .... then I will be on the tail of Argos ....... the mood I'm in at the minute, I'm going to hang draw and quarter them. How dare they say it is alright to park somewhere where they have no authority over!

Anyway ..... just thought I'd let you know where I'm at ..... :o)

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Julie

[CurlyMops]

Thank you all for your replies ..... I've not been told when the appeal is likely to take place.

I'll let you know when I next hear anything.

Thank you all once again for your support,

Kind regards,

Julie

[CurlyMops]

Well, after all this time, I've been sent an email from POPLA ...... here is a copy of it ....

 

"As you may be aware, a case concerning parking on private land, ParkingEye Limited -v- Beavis, has now been heard by the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom. However, a decision is not expected for some time.

Where either party has requested an adjournment or where it appears to the Assessor that a POPLA appeal raises the same issue as in the above case, and there is no other ground upon which the appeal can be determined, the matter will be adjourned.

Accordingly, your appeal is adjourned to a provisional date for determination of Monday 9 November 2015.

In the meantime, no enforcement action can proceed once a case is registered at POPLA, before the POPLA appeal is determined. Further, there is absolutely no requirement to pay any sort of ‘administration charge’ to the operator, in order for the case to be taken out of the list.

You should be contacted again after the decision of the Supreme Court is handed down.

Yours sincerely"

 

I had no idea that the case had been adjourned ..... but anyway ... it would appear that the parking company must have adjourned it, but nobody thought it might have shown courtesy to let me know ..... never mind.

 

So I'm assuming that they think that the outcome to the court case will mean that they have more chance of winning ...... ...... never mind that this has been on going since March, causing untold stress.

 

Sigh ... anyway .... thought I'd let you know about the update ... if they keep this up, i'll have died of old age by the time it's sorted ....... Oh Joy!!! Would I love to see their faces then! (Apologies for sick sense of humour)

[CurlyMops]

??? Oh ...... I had no idea that all these changes were being made ...... I'm really shocked!

[CurlyMops]

Well, it's a year down the line.

I'd hoped that this was all forgotten, but oh no, it's come back to haunt me!

 

I've received a letter from solicitors,

saying that they have been appointed by BPA to act as an independent appeals body.

 

I thought it might be a hoax, I mean who in their right mind, would call solicitors 'Wright Hassall' ???????!!!!!

 

they're giving me just 7 days to submit any new information.

I've got no way of checking if the information they're using is correct,

and I felt like the tone of the letter, is FAR FROM being independent.

 

I am so sick and tired of this, I feel like they've already won.

If I have to pay just one penny, then I'm going to go after Argos with everything

I've got to get THEM to compensate me for all the stress that this has caused over the last year.

 

To say I'm livid is an under statement! (Apologies for the rant, but I received the letter today and haven't calmed down yet!)

Thanking you for any advice you may have to offer,

 

With kind regards,

 

CurlyMops

[CurlyMops]

I'm confused.

 

I've been trying to find out information,

and I've read that Right Hassle have indeed taken over POPLA,

even though as a firm of solicitors, they are well known for chasing debts,

and being in the pockets of parking companies.

 

They can't possibly be 'independent'.

 

From the way the letter reads, they are going to be the ones who decide if I have to pay the fine or not.

 

The letter isn't asking me for money,

 

it's telling me that they will assess my appeal based on the evidence they have before them.

[CurlyMops]

Well, here I am again, with yet another update regarding my parking outside the rear of Argos 17 months ago.

 

Today I received an email from Wright Hassall solicitors (POPLA)

My appeal has been rejected, and it is their final decision.

 

 

Copy of email ......

 

"We have been appointed by the British Parking Association (“BPA”) to act as an independent appeals body,

under the brand of Parking on Private Land Appeals (“POPLA”), in respect of the Appeal and to consider

both the Appellants and the Car Park Operator’s positions before providing a decision to the parties. We are

not instructed to act on behalf of either party.

 

We confirm that we have considered the appeal, taking into account all of the evidence at hand and applying

the prevailing legislation and with reference to the BPA Code of Practice, and have decided to reject the

Appeal on this occasion.

 

 

To avoid further action, including Court action, the Appellant can make payment to

the Car Park Operator in the next 28 days.

The Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) will not be cancelled.

 

Reasons for dismissing the Appeal

 

• The Appellant stated in the Appeal that the amount of the parking charge is unreasonable. Pursuant

to the guidance set out in the Supreme Court’s decision in ParkingEye v Beavis and in accordance

with the BPA Code of Practice, a reasonable charge would be £100.00. As the charge the Car Park

Operator has imposed is equal to or less than £100.00, we have no option but to reject the Appeal.

 

• The Appellant stated that they were a customer of Argos at the time of the contravention, however

the signs clearly state “a valid parking permit must be clearly displayed at all times” the appellant did

not display a permit and was therefore in breach of the Terms and Conditions of the car park.

Accordingly, the Appeal is rejected.

 

To the Appellant

 

To avoid further action, including Court action,

the Appellant can make payment to the Car Park Operator in the next 28 days.

The Parking Charge Notice will not be cancelled.

 

To the Car Park Operator

 

As the Appeal has been rejected, you must allow the Appellant 28 days to make payment.

If payment is not forthcoming, you may take further action to recover the PCN.

 

This is the final decision in this Appeal.

 

 

We are not able to respond to any future correspondence from either party,

nor are we able to provide any information to either party over the telephone.

 

Yours faithfully"

 

I can't begin to say how angry I am by it all.

 

 

I'm particularly angry at Argos,

whose fault it was in the first place,

to give me permission to park there,

when in fact they had no right to do that.

 

if anyone can offer me any help as to what I need to do next,

then I would be very grateful. T

 

 

he last thing I feel like doing right now,

is paying them a single penny,

and this whole business really sits in my craw.

 

 

It's not just for me,

its for all those other people who have been 'had' in the same way.

 

 

I'm not going to give in quietly, that's for sure!

 

With kind regards,

 

Julie :o)

[CurlyMops]

Thank you for your reply.

 

I've just been through the paperwork, and notice that I spoke on line to 'Argos'. I

 

 

spoke to Dominic, who said that it was nothing to do with Argos,

and that the land is not owned by Argos.

I should "sort it out with UKPC".

 

 

If that is the case, then that's fair enough,

BUT, they should not be printing their receipts with the advice that you can park on land which they do not own.

If they hadn't told me that it was ok, then I would NEVER have parked there,

and would have taken notice of the signs on the walls.

 

 

I can't begin to imagine how much money has been made from this, and feel that it needs to stop.

 

I'll wait for the call to go to Court.

Thank you for your support. Much appreciated,

Regards,

Julie

[CurlyMops]

Thank you so much for all of your replies. Very much appreciated.

 

I've received a letter from UKPC.

"We understand that having submitted all of the information to POPLA,

that they have declined your appeal, finding in favour of UK Parking Control Ltd.

 

Accordingly, payment of £100 should be paid to us within 28 days of the date of this letter.

Failing to do so will result in the debt being passed to our debt recovery agents.

 

 

If that becomes necessary, the amount due from you will increase to £160 in accordance with the terms and conditions of parking which were clearly displayed on our signs.

 

Should you then fail to pay our debt recovery agents,

court proceedings may be issued against you for the sum of £160

together with a claim for costs, court fee, and any interest that arises from the courts decision.

We hope that you will take this opportunity to pay the outstanding sum due of £100 within the next 28 days"

 

What I can't understand from all this, is,

aren't POVLA supposed to know what they are talking about,

know the rules,

be up to date on current legislation etc.

and give an open and honest verdict?

 

 

If so, how can they possibly have come up with this decision?

Surely it makes an ass out of the whole system.

 

 

Also, who is paying POVLA / Solicitors??

They won't be doing it for nothing, that's for sure.

 

Thank you so much for your help,

With kind regards,

 

Julie