TfL London Buses - Penalty charge with tapped on oyster!

[infinity2022]

Howdy,

 

I recently recieved a Penalty Fare notice on a London bus for apparently not having an Oyster card. What had happened was I tapped on, but later on in the journey my wallet was stolen without me being aware. The ticket inspector went ahead and gave a Penalty Notice.

 

Since this is a 16+ Oyster Photocard it shouldn't be hard to prove that I actually did tap on. The can just find my name and the corresponding card and dates and journey. In any case, I appealed as soon as I got home but now I have gotten a letter saying the following:

 

An assesment was made and you were requested to pay an outstanding balance or, to enable an assesment, further information was required.

 

Now, I did not recieve any letter prior to this telling me any information was needed or that my appeal was rejected. My e-mail address is also on record and I received nothing there. I am attempting to call them, however I haven't managed to get through as of yet.

 

It's clear they are just after my money, and not even bothered to verify facts. I'm sure if this was a matter of the court I would win, but obviously that isn't something that I want the bother of.

 

Does anyone have any advice regarding this?

 

Thank you!

[rebel11]

Hi infinity2022

 

Welcome to CAG

 

You've got a history of purchasing tickets which is great, you can access your account online, or pop into a station for that.

 

They sent a letter to you to request further info, but you haven't received it. Have they sent you a Penalty Fare (£80) now ?

 

You can still write to them, it's not too late. Explain what happened with a print out of your travel history highlighting the 'tap in' before your card was stolen.

[infinity2022]

Thank you rebel11.

 

I received a penalty fare on the spot the day of the incident, which I appealed the same day. Apparently they either rejected my appeal or asked for additional information, I didn't recieve a letter stating either. Now they are demanding the full fee of £80 as opposed to the original £40.

 

Since I am under 18 and a student I do not pay for bus fares, however I am sure every tap on is recorded by TfL and shouldn't be hard to lookup. I am also sure that IRCAS (handle the collecting of money and penalty fares) will try their best not to get this evidence of me tapping on. Is there any way I can get this revoked directly with TfL, or somehow get a printout from TfL proving I did indeed tap on that bus at the time I got a penalty fare. Would be nice if someone that has gone through this before can elaborate on what exactly they did.

[rebel11]

They definately won't withold your travel history. Go to your local underground station, ask for a complete printout. Take some ID with you.

 

How do I appeal against a penalty fare?

 

You have 21 days to appeal against a penalty fare, whether you have paid it or not. Transport for London has to explain why you should pay it. However, if you continue to dispute the payment after 21 days, you could be taken to the county court.

 

 

If you want to appeal within the first 21 days, write to the Independent Appeals Service. If you are unsuccessful, you’ll be told in the decision letter about the next stage of the appeal process to Transport for London. If that fails, the appeal goes to the final stage which is an Independent Appeals Panel.

 

 

If you think you have been unfairly treated when getting a penalty fare or appealing, you can complain in writing or using an online form.

 

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/travel_leisure_and_food_e/consumer_transport_e/consumer_public_transport_e/consumer_buses_e/bus_penalty_fares.htm

 

The Industry Experts will provide further advice as soon as they are available.

[BankFodder]

In addition to taking the advice above, please would you monitor this thread as I am hoping that someone who specialises in these things will take a look in the next couple of days

[Old-CodJA]

They definately won't withold your travel history. Go to your local underground station, ask for a complete printout. Take some ID with you.

 

How do I appeal against a penalty fare?

 

You have 21 days to appeal against a penalty fare, whether you have paid it or not. Transport for London has to explain why you should pay it. However, if you continue to dispute the payment after 21 days, you could be taken to the county court.

 

 

If you want to appeal within the first 21 days, write to the Independent Appeals Service. If you are unsuccessful, you’ll be told in the decision letter about the next stage of the appeal process to Transport for London. If that fails, the appeal goes to the final stage which is an Independent Appeals Panel.

 

 

If you think you have been unfairly treated when getting a penalty fare or appealing, you can complain in writing or using an online form.

 

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/travel_leisure_and_food_e/consumer_transport_e/consumer_public_transport_e/consumer_buses_e/bus_penalty_fares.htm

 

The Industry Experts will provide further advice as soon as they are available.

 

 

 

 

The general advice given by rebel is correct, but this is unlikely to be a County Court matter if TfL pursue it. The usual course of action if a Penalty notice is not paid or successfully appealed within the time allowed is that the notice will be cancelled and a Summons issued for the offence to be heard by a Magistrates Court.

 

 

Thank you rebel11.

 

I received a penalty fare on the spot the day of the incident, which I appealed the same day. Apparently they either rejected my appeal or asked for additional information, I didn't recieve a letter stating either. Now they are demanding the full fee of £80 as opposed to the original £40. .

 

 

You say that you appealed on the same day, how did you make that appeal?

[rebel11]

Your quite right, but it was a 'direct', 'cut and paste' from their site, I missed their error.

 

'The general advice given by rebel is correct, but this is unlikely to be a County Court matter if TfL pursue it. The usual course of action if a Penalty notice is not paid or successfully appealed within the time allowed is that the notice will be cancelled and a Summons issued for the offence to be heard by a Magistrates Court.'

[Old-CodJA]

OK, amazing how so many overlook the need to proof read, but there we are.

[rebel11]

Unfortunately few of us reach 'perfection'.

 

OK, amazing how so many overlook the need to proof read, but there we are.

[gigs]

I recently recieved a Penalty Fare notice on a London bus for apparently not having an Oyster card. What had happened was I tapped on, but later on in the journey my wallet was stolen without me being aware.

 

Your case sounds exactly like what someone experienced here in another thread, and they where let off after all was said and done. So there is hope if you follow the correct procedures.

[Old-CodJA]

Unfortunately few of us reach 'perfection'.

 

 

I agree, we all make mistakes sometimes, but you'd think TfL would check something that they are putting out as definitive advice for the travelling public wouldn't you.

[infinity2022]

The general advice given by rebel is correct, but this is unlikely to be a County Court matter if TfL pursue it. The usual course of action if a Penalty notice is not paid or successfully appealed within the time allowed is that the notice will be cancelled and a Summons issued for the offence to be heard by a Magistrates Court.

 

You say that you appealed on the same day, how did you make that appeal?

 

I appealed via the method stated on the penalty notice I recieved that day, which was the IRCAS online appeal form.

 

 

I called IRCAS 'customer service' today and the lady on the phone mentioned that a letter was sent out saying that my appeal was rejected on the grounds that I need to carry a 16+ Oyster at all times.

It is likely a generic response where they haven't looked into the case.

I've requested them to send out that letter again.

 

From my point of view, I think the way forward is to lodge a complaint.

I don't believe my case has been looked into as it should,

the records would show that I tapped on when entering the bus and I should not be responsible if my wallet was later stolen during the journey.

 

I will have a peak through the terms and conditions of the Oyster photocard.

Although, I still am not convinced that I was at fault here.

If I am to blame, these are absurd conditions.

[infinity2022]

I've just had a look at the link, however I have already appealed and that appeal was rejected. What's next in terms of lodging an official complaint? I see no contact details for TfL or whoever the body is for lodging an official complaint.

[rebel11]

Hi infinity2022

 

The letter you receive will have directions to the next stage of the appeal process. I believe you need to write to TFL Prosecutions Department.

 

Here's some more info:-

 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

Remember there are now two separate issues here,

1) The lack of compentancy of IRCAS.

2) The next stage in the appeal process to TFL.

 

Don't get the two mixed up.

 

I've just had a look at the link, however I have already appealed and that appeal was rejected. What's next in terms of lodging an official complaint? I see no contact details for TfL or whoever the body is for lodging an official complaint.

[JPAC]

Hi, infinity2022

Please contact TfL's Bus Enforcement team direct at be@tfl.gov.uk (quoting the Penalty Fare Notice number and your Oyster Photocard Number) and we will do our best to investigate and resolve this issue promptly for you.

 

Thanks,

Bus Enforcement Team

Transport for London

[BankFodder]

JPAC - thank you for looking in on this.

 

infinity2022 I suggest that you follow up on the invitation to contact them as they will take a proper look and things may get straightened out.

 

Please do let us know how it goes.