Now on ESA (From JSA) - No Compassion or Flexibility

[essexmat]

Hi, I said a few weeks ago that I was thinking about ESA from JSA. I have now done it, enough was enough. With the stress of feeling unwell with my anxiety and depression as well as another medical condition where I have had a few hours here and there at doctors, consultants and having various medical tests done the DWP/adviser at INGEUS got funny with me and said I was 'not actively seeking work for some periods of time' and therefore my claim was at risk. I called central office and explained that I was going through a few things and had a few hours here and there at medical appointments and apparantly I 'should have done a JSA28' (again as already done one for my back a few weeks back)

 

I explained it was NOT a period of sickness, it was on going tests and medical care whilst I aim to get this sorted but they didn't want to know. So, angered by this I made a GP appointment that day (got one luckily) explained to GP my situation with my problems - got meds changed for my A&D and he signed me off and said "it is disgusting behaviour for the government to treat genuine people like this - here is a note for a month and if we need to continue it please come and see me for another note after the month is up and I am happy with your past history to issue one for you"

 

A genuine person has been sh*t on by rules and regulations that offer no flexibility for medical reasons and there is ZERO empathy even though I have all the notes and official letters showing my appointments, dates and times etc.

 

I am so angry with it I have not even contacted INGEUS about this they were the last of my problems but I guess I now should. What is the position with me now being on ESA and job searches/mandatory booked workshops and INGEUS appointments? Should they automatically know I am on ESA via DWP/JCP or do I need to inform them as I have pre-booked appointments and workshops next week that I obviouslydo not want to go to given my sickness/being signed off.

 

The whole system stinks. All I asked for whilst looking for work was some empathy and flexibility whilst I was having some medical procedures done and seeing consultants for this condition - I got NOTHING so I was left with little choice.

 

Thanks

[ismael urzaiz]

you've signed off,therefore the jobcentre and ingeus have no interest in you. in a week or so you will get a form from atos to fill in,it'll say return asap but will also give a 'no later than date' for it's return, return it on this date.giving yourself a few more weeks peace

[matt v atos]

Empathy and Flexibility You will not get you are dealing with robots. best to push on.

[essexmat]

Thanks both, As mine is anxiety and depression (reoccurred from a few years back) I am expecting nothing extra - to be honest extra money is always a bonus but this was not the purpose of my claim - it was to help ME feel better and get some flexibility. Luckily my GP is donw the road from me and very sympathetic. I have a case history so nothing at all to hide either. ATOS, waste of time, expecting NOTHING so not bothered by those parasites either and lets be honest, when I do fill this in I am VERY UNLIKELY to get enough points to get additional help.

[fletch70]

Mat

It is all about how you fill in the form, did I mention about the group on facebook called 4up they are very good and have all the literature from all organisations . I am not saying the guys here are not good but if you have built up a profile here maybe you do not want everyone to know your dirty laundry. First tme around I had to appeal, second time around I was awarded the points straight off

 

Remember it s not your good days and your medication can and does have side effects

 

As for the work provider they will want to stay in touch, my advsor has to stay in touch until the two years are up even when you have signed off. One of her clients is in prison and she still has to speak to his mum every so often

[Nystagmite]

There is a guide on here on how to fill the form in. But I think the person who did it, only got around to doing the physical part.

[ismael urzaiz]

seems to me that there's some sort of mythical cia mi5 like status being attributed to ingeus on this forum..if you're on the sick then they can get f@kt.

[fletch70]

Sadly no they can't as if you are referred to them you can still be sanctioned . It's about playing the game

I wondered about tell them to go forth as in a few weeks things are changing but it's easier not to rock the boat (from experience) and keep my HB and ESA coming in

[Nystagmite]

But how can you be sanctioned when you're on assessment rate ESA? Unless something's changed, I was never required to go to WP when I was on assessment rate ESA.

[essexmat]

Eh? If I am on Assessment rate ESA (same rate as JSA) How can a WP provider sanction me?!

[Nystagmite]

WP can't sanction you. Only DWP can. But I can't see how you'd be sanctioned.

[essexmat]

If this is true that WP can raise a doubt when on ESA surely that contradicts being on ESA and SICK? That is like being signed off of work and your boss emailing/calling you daily to ask for stuff etc? Surely this would amount to harrassment while on sick 'leave'?

[fletch70]

My response was aimed at the general idea that you can tell them to stick it when on ESA. They should leave you alone if you are on assessment rate .

[Mr.P]

Reposting info from another thread and adding further comments:

 

Referring to Chapter 5 of the DWP guidance, the provider should have been notified of the change by way of a WP07b that you have moved over to ESA.

 

Paragraph 27 on page 6 may well be of interest:

Mandatory participant moves from JSA to ESA

27. Where you are notified that a mandatory JSA participant has ceased their JSA to claim ESA, they remain attached with you and their participation requirements should be treated as the same as those of a Voluntary ESA participant until the outcome of the Work Capability Assessment (WCA)

 

Although an Ingeus "adviser" (using the term in its loosest sense) can raise a benefit doubt, until such time as you have had a Work Capability Assessment and placed in the Work Related Activity Group, a sanction can not be imposed. A Decision Maker should reject a WP08 (benefit doubt form) as soon as it is submitted.

[Nystagmite]

My response was aimed at the general idea that you can tell them to stick it when on ESA. They should leave you alone if you are on assessment rate .

 

from experience, they don't. Even JCP weren't happy over this.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

What is the position with me now being on ESA and job searches/mandatory booked workshops and INGEUS appointments?

 

I have a friend on ESA, and she still has to attend Ingeus once a fortnight.

Being on ESA has made no difference to her what so ever, she is treated the same, as anyone on JSA.

 

Sorry to disappoint you

[antone]

I have a friend on ESA, and she still has to attend Ingeus once a fortnight.

Being on ESA has made no difference to her what so ever, she is treated the same, as anyone on JSA.

 

Sorry to disappoint you

 

People on the Assessment Phase part of ESA must be treated as voluntary WP participants until the result of their WCA is known. That means they are not required to attend appointments, courses etc, or to look for work. Of course, some WP Providers either don't know the rules or conveniently "forget" them, according to accounts we read here.

[fletch70]

The big difference is that you do not have to justify your time, you do not need to do job searches , have a log etc etc. When I go I used to be in the more challenging group and all I did was help people log in /set up emails , universal job match etc. Mind you I always advised them not to tick the allow job centre access to UJM and to use a an email address that was only for jobs, so I did not exactly tow the party line

[Charlotte_Henderson]

People on the Assessment Phase part of ESA must be treated as voluntary WP participants until the result of their WCA is known. That means they are not required to attend appointments, courses etc, or to look for work. Of course, some WP Providers either don't know the rules or conveniently "forget" them, according to accounts we read here.

 

My friend has no choice but to attend, she has been on ESA for some time now...

 

Even though she has 2-3 operations a year, she still has to attend..

[antone]

My friend has no choice but to attend, she has been on ESA for some time now...

 

Even though she has 2-3 operations a year, she still has to attend..

 

There are mandatory WP participants on ESA, but they do not include people in the Assessment Phase, like Matt, unless they volunteer to participate.

[fletch70]

Antone, do you have a link for what they can force you to do as part of the WP if you are on WRAG

[antone]

Well, you could look at the Work Programme Provide Guidance here. Chapter 2 would be the place to start.

 

Mandatory ESA participants can be required to do a number of things but specifically not: apply for jobs, undertake medical treatment, accept work or unpaid work experience.

[fletch70]

Thanks. Exactly what I needed to know

[essexmat]

Yes, thank you, useful for me too although I guess I maynot be on ESA long. I know full well I will get ZERO on an ATOS assessment but how long averagely doe sit take for me to be asked to attend one? At the moment I have a month rolling sick note from GP

[fletch70]

Well they should be done within 13 weeks but don't bet on that.

I can not stress enough , it is about filling in the form well to start with. I did it on the PC so I could do a bit at a time, alter it, add bits and fit much more in than I could have done writing it