Car Lifted for no tax.. but was sorn and off road on private land

[billie.skeggs]

Hi, dont know if this is the right place but hopefully those in the know will move accordingly.

 

Today i got a call from my ex to say my car had dissappeared while she was out.

 

The car itself has been SORN off the road since 2011

and parked on an off road parking area thats associated with the building she lives in.

.. the car is registered there and had been there without issue untill today..

 

I have had no letters in the post or stickers attached to the car by anyone

and the housing estate officier has not mentioned anything when talking with my ex.

 

i firstly called the police 101 line to find that havering council had lifted the car for having no tax..

however the land in which the car was parked is not owned or under jurisdiction of the council but that of a private housing authority.

and i know this for fact due to issues over incorrectly issued parking ticked previously by the council.

. and the area in which the car was parked is not under their boundary.

 

now as im to understand this is THEFT by the council.

 

if the housing authority that owned the land wanted to remove the car

i would have had to been given at least 7/14 days notice by means of letter or notice on the car.

 

now where do i stand .

... i haven't called the council in question as well the offices are closed

but as it stands i believe they have stolen the vehicle and had no right to lift it...

 

or if they were under instruction form the housing authority to remove it i should have been given due notice.

 

thanks in advance

[2ltr16valve]

Welcome mate.

 

I'm sure you will get some replies soon

[Conniff]

Do you have your SORN form sent to you by the DVLA ?

[billie.skeggs]

Do you have your SORN form sent to you by the DVLA ?

 

haven't had a letter from the dvla in a while. quite honestly not sure when was last sorned..

 

however would be a DVLA lift not a council lift would it not.. ( as recorded on the police database)

[Conniff]

You say the car is SORN, did you write to the DVLA and declare SORN ?

[billie.skeggs]

yeah i sorn'd it back in 2012 when the tax expired.. honestly dont remeber if i have had re sorned it since but same time have had no letters from the DVLA

[billie.skeggs]

however i just checked a quick google and havent needed to resorn cars since the end of 2013 when the changes in continual insurance came into force:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2013-12/no-need-to-renew-sorn-from-16-12-2013/

[Conniff]

You only have to sorn once, the need for an annual declaration was scrapped in 2011.

 

 

If you believe you had the paperwork back from the DVLA then I would send them a SAR and get back everything they have and see what is in there.

 

 

DVLA are notorious for losing or claiming non receipt of mail and dumping the blame on the public.

[2ltr16valve]

however i just checked a quick google and havent needed to resorn cars since the end of 2013 when the changes in continual insurance came into force:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2013-12/no-need-to-renew-sorn-from-16-12-2013/

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-cuts-unnecessary-red-tape-for-motorists

 

Info there with more too

[nohope]

That's strange with not having to do the annual sorn.

I have 5 or 6 cars on sorn at the mo and I have to do it every year.

[billie.skeggs]

You only have to sorn once, the need for an annual declaration was scrapped in 2011.

 

 

If you believe you had the paperwork back from the DVLA then I would send them a SAR and get back everything they have and see what is in there.

 

 

DVLA are notorious for losing or claiming non receipt of mail and dumping the blame on the public.

 

well i did it online so will have a sift through my emails... and i know about the DVLA loosing stuff had a letter sent to my new adress for a failure to tax/sorn a veichle that had been crushed in 08... i got the letter in 13 :/

[billie.skeggs]

And i do have the email

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED EMAIL - PLEASE DO NOT REPLY AS EMAILS
RECEIVED AT THIS ADDRESS CANNOT BE RESPONDED TO.

Confirmation of Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN)

Thank you for using DVLA Vehicle Licensing Online ([url="http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk"]www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk[/url]).
Your SORN declaration has been successful.

Reference Number: 1088 **** **** ****
Vehicle Registration Mark: P****
Application made on: 20/02/2011 19:21:34
SORN Period: 12 months

The SORN confirmation letter should arrive in the post within 4 weeks.

Please save or print this email confirmation.

The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government  Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Cable&Wireless  Worldwide in partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number  2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

[billie.skeggs]

However..

 

regardless of sorn no sorn tax no tax.... on private land they have no power to lift...

 

espipcally in this case being the LA lifting a car not on their land or the public highway

[Raykay]

A SORN declaration made in 2011 would have expired in 2012. The change of the regulations that made a SORN declaration continuous was from 16th December 2013.

[JoeyJoeC]

Looks like you should have SORN it again once more before you wouldn't have to do it again.

[zumbanikki]

I would phone them and ask why it was taken as it might have been taken as it was a eyesore/in the way etc

then once you know the reason you can build your defence

maybe your ex got it shifted,or maybe the landlord as you are not living there you cant be entitled to park there I would have thought.

[JoeyJoeC]

It's clear that he should have SORN it a final time, otherwise the previous SORN expired. Thus when it was taken, it wasn't sorn and wasn't taxed.

[zumbanikki]

but if its private land they cant take it can they?

[JoeyJoeC]

Missed that part sorry. Is this the same for all councils?

[billie.skeggs]

Ex didnt get it lilfted.. the land isnt council owned and hasnt been an isses with any of the neighbours as was causing no obsturction to anyone..

 

even tho car was registered in my name is was registered at that address from when i lived there. and being the registered keeper in law only makes you the person the "legally responsable person " for it.. and in this case my ex was the one looking after it for me so essentially she was responsible for the car.

 

the sorn issue i seem to have over looked but as the lands isnt the councils but that of the landlord is has nothing to do with the council..

 

im calling them today to find out if the councils boundaries have moved and if not then enquire why it was lifted

[Raykay]

but if its private land they cant take it can they?

 

With some exceptions, an authorised person can remove an unlicensed motor vehicle that is on any land.

[billie.skeggs]

well a few calls later and i have some information:

 

SORN had expired... however as i had no corispondence from DVLA since god knows when i can understand why i over looked it..

 

thus the company "redcorn" lifted the car not under instruction of anyone apparently..

and with notice to the DVLA a fine has been issued by them only 2 days ago.. for somthing thats been unlicened since 2012... surely a atomated letter would have been sent but thats besides the point.

 

but however bit of google suggests that they still acted unlwafaly:

 

The finance act states: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/9/schedule/45

 

Schedule 2A (immobilisation, removal and disposal of vehicles) is amended as follows.

5(1)Paragraph 1 (immobilisation) is amended as follows.

 

(2)In sub-paragraph (1), for “on a public road” substitute “ in any place other than a place to which this Schedule does not apply ”.

 

(3)After that sub-paragraph insert—

 

“(1A)This Schedule does not apply to—

 

(a)any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a dwelling-house, mobile home or houseboat and which is normally enjoyed with it, or

 

(b)any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a building consisting entirely (apart from common parts) of two or more dwellings and which is normally enjoyed only by the occupiers of one or more of those dwellings.”

 

thus i believe they acted unlawfally in lifting the car in the case of being unlicenced..

[billie.skeggs]

further more an FOI from the dvla:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wheel_clamping_operators_and_tow

 

.....

 

The exceptions to the expanded enforcement powers state that vehicles

parked on land associated with a house or a block of flats cannot be

wheel clamped or impounded. This applies for example, to private

driveways, garages and allocated parking bays. Also vehicles kept by a

motor trader or vehicle tester at a business premise cannot be

wheelclamped or impounded.

 

...

[2ltr16valve]

Any news bud ?

[billie.skeggs]

Any news bud ?

 

 

 

 

Well letter from recovery agent arrived saying car would be disposed of on the 21st. That's 6 days after being lifted.

 

Also the fees that apply. Tho I can't work out if there fair either as as letter arrived 3 days after lifting I would have to pay 3 days storage plus the higher fee.

 

Been difficult trying to sort stuff as work been getting in the way as well as hoping for some advice from here.

 

I'm gonna send an email to the company over the weekend saying the matter is in dispute hopfully holding off the car disposal. I'll post a letter also.

 

Same with the dvla.