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    • What type of finance is it?   HP, PCP, Loan? They want her to ring so they can bully her into making payments she can't afford...unless she can record her calls then IMHO, I'd keep everything in writing. Is £400 SSP her only income? There's no chance they will justify taking half of that.   Lodge a formal complaint with them ASAP, exhaust it, and then you can escalate it sooner rather than later, ruddy sharks!  
    • Is all of this actually on the signage? Don't remember seeing that much detail on other threads.
    • If I have learnt one thing from this forum, it's not to call and communicate via email. I passed this info on to her and they are pushing for her to call them.    "Unfortunately, you will need to call us. The conversation won’t be so black and white as to therefore type over email. In a nutshell we can confirm that the request to not pay for 3 months we cannot put in place"  I emailed them back on her behalf and said that what ever is discussed over the phone will need to be put in an email so that she can review it properly. No decisions will be made on that phone call.    "Once we speak to you on the phone we will follow up with an email to confirm the options discussed. [Phone number]"   Why are they pushing for a phone call? If its not so black and white, why can they then follow up with an email?  
    • Appreciate input Andy, updated: IN THE ******** County Court Claim No. [***] BETWEEN: LC Asset 2 S.A.R.L CLAIMANT AND [***] DEFENDANT ************ _________________________ ________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF [***] _________________________ ________ I, [***], being the Defendant in this case will state as follows;     I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim.   1. I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much-reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimant’s witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 2. The Claim relates to an alleged Credit Card agreement between the Defendant and Bank of Scotland plc. Save insofar of any admittance it is accepted that the Defendant has had contractual agreements with Bank of Scotland plc in the past, the Defendant is unaware as to what alleged debt the Claimant refers. The Defendant has not entered any contract with the Claimant. 3. The Defendant requested a copy of the CCA on the 24/12/2022 along with the standard fee of £1.00 postal order, to which the defendant received a reply from the Claimant dated 06/02/2023. To this date, the Claimant has failed to disclose a valid agreement and proof as per their claim that this is enforceable, that Default Notice and Notice of Assignment were sent to and received by the Defendant, on which their claim relies. The Claimant is put to strict proof to verify and confirm that the exhibit *** is a true copy of the agreement and are the true Terms and Conditions as issued at the time of inception of the online application and execution of the agreement. 4. Point 3 is noted. The Claimant pleads that a default notice has been served upon the defendant as evidenced by Exhibit [***]. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 5. Point 6 is noted and disputed. The Defendant cannot recall ever having received the notice of assignment as evidenced in the exhibit marked ***. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Point 11 is noted and disputed. See 3. 7. Point 12 is noted, the Defendant doesn’t recall receiving contact where documentation is provided as per the Claimants obligations under CCA. In addition, the Claimant pleads letters were sent on dates given, yet those are not the letters evidenced in their exhibits *** 8. Point 13 is noted and denied. Claimant is put to strict proof to prove allegations. 9. The Claimant did not provide a true copy of the CCA in response to the Defendants request of 21/12/2022. The Claimant further claims that the documents are sufficient to pursue a Judgement and are therefore copies of original documents in their possession. Conclusion 10. Without the Claimant providing a valid true copy of the executed Credit agreement that complies with the CCA, the Claimant has no grounds on which to enforce this alleged debt. 11. The Claimant has been unjustly enriched at the expense of the Defendant by purchasing bulk debt at a greatly reduced cost and subrogating for the original creditor in trying to recuperate the full amount of the original debt 12. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. On receipt of this claim I could not recall the precise details of the agreement or any debt and sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request. The Claimant failed to comply. I can only assume as this was due to the Claimant not having any enforceable documentation and issuing a claim in hope of an undefended default judgment.   Statement of Truth I, ********, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in it’s truth. Signed: _________________________ _______ Dated: _____________________
    • Morning,  I am hoping someone can help, I am posting on behalf of my friend so I will try and provide as much info as possible.  Due health reasons, she is currently not working and unable to pay her contractual car finance payments. She emailed 247 Money and asked for a 3 month payment holiday, they refused this straight away with no reasons as to why. They have told her that instead she can make a payment of £200. She is currently getting £400+ a month ssp so this is not acceptable. She went back to them and explained she cannot make this payment and they have not offered an alternative plan. Its £200 or she falls into default.  She is now panicking as she does not want her car to be taken away. What options does she have?  Thank you, 
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Thanks Brigadier, I was advised elsewehere on here to only use an electronic signature but they would'nt accept that.

There really is no point in not signing a CCA request, would anyone like all comer to be able to apply for copies of agreement if they had access to just a little information I think not.

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Well once told that they didn't need a signature they relented with me and sent my CCA request.

 

Once it is sent after 14 working days they are in default, internal procedures or not.

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Select committee on Trade and Industry minutes of evidence (1996 Legislative working party)

 

2. The working party looked at the legal issues regarding the terms document, writing, signature, instrument, and records of transactions and originality. The Government's current proposed legislation focuses particularly upon the issue of signature. The working party considered the leading case in English law on signature methods, Goodman -v- J Eban Limited.

That decision established that:

2.1 mechanical signatures using rubber stamps, printing or typewriting were valid in english law;

2.2 a signature can be by a mark rather than a name as long as evidence can be given to indentify the placer of the mark and the intention to sign; and

2.3 words other than a name can amount to a signature if the necessary intention to sign can be proven

 

Now although this working party was looking into the Electronics Commerce Bill it points to . .

Goodman v J Eban Ltd (1954)

 

A solicitor signed a solicitors bill with a rubber stamp which contained the name of the law firm. In the judgment it was determined that the rubber stamp was a valid signature, even theough the Solicitors Act of 1932 required a solicitors bill to be signed; it was established that it is enough to demonstrate that the rubber stamp was affixed by the solicitor with the intention to sign the solicitor's bill.

 

So now taking the highlights above I go to:

Interpretations act 1978

Schedule 1

1973 c.37.

 

"Writing" includes typing, lithograpgy, photography or other modes of representing or reproducing words in a visible form and expressions refering to writing can be construed accordingly

 

Also;

[/i][/b]

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are.

 

Thank you to DX for the above

 

Dear Sirs

Ref: xxxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated XX/XX/XXXX, the contents of which have been noted. In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation before you will comply with my CCA Request however, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply you a copy of my signature. If it is for Data Protection purposes then I can supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you. However, I note that to date you have happily sent statements and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to my address and so I wonder, if you are so concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why has it taken you so long to raise this?

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of Data Protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

• Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity; which therefore means that this account looks likely to become unenforceable until such time you actually respond to my lawful request for a copy of the agreement. I am not going to sign anything as there is nothing that formally allows you to demand such, any future failings will be swiftly reported to the regulatory bodies so I politely suggest you adhere to this refusal.

I look forward to receiving the documentation requested, within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Thanks Fletch, I did send Natwest a letter pointing out that there is no legal reason for them to require a signature but funnily enough they ignored that completely as well, this weeks target is Wescott as despite me receiving two letters from them saying they have suspended my account until they hear from Natwest, they are still ringing and texting everyday, including texting me at 12.51 am this morning! :-x I feel a complaint to the OFT coming on.

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Hi

I too have had an ongoing battle with the group. I have not heard from them for a while .

I even went as far as sending a complaint to RBS but just like a good politician they wonderfully answered questions I did not ask and did not answer the questions I did.

 

Just remember that it is the FCA now to complain to

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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2. in post 28# says only it May be safe to assume..........>. A phrase much reminiscent of a DCAs letter riddled with the word.

 

 

Leaving it open for a creditor to say we may NOT assume........

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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Purp

My view and that of many others (in fact i believe the vast majority) is that no signature is required. I assume that they have been writing detailed letters and/or sending statements to you at your current address.

Again my personal view is that if the above is true they will be in default of your CCA request and are somewhat on the backfoot. The new FCA rulebook says that they should not even be issuing proceedings with an outstanding S77-79 request . For this reason I would not pander to them.

 

IF you feel that a signature is needed then there are many ways to get round it, use an anti tamper strip...many websites have them freely available, you copy and paste them onto your letter then sign on top . Another option is to alter your signature as it is unlikely that they will compare. If you do this you then need to make sure you keep a copy as proof. Finally you could print your own anti tamper strip on the letter and sign on top of it.

I can only tell you what I would do and why I will never give a signature unless legally necessary , there are many other ways of proving your identity. IMO it is just about reducing any risks.

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Hi fletch thanks for that I haven't heard back from Natwest yet this time round however Westcott who are currently acting fro them have today set another letter claiming they have had no contact from me and threatening further action if I do not contact them, I have two letters from them acknowleding reciept of the CCA request so obviously they have heard from me! seems they have the same attitude as Natwest.

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Further to my above post I have just checked and I sent the CCA request on the 3rd April and was acknowledged in writing on 15th April and again on 30th April as it has not been forthcoming does this meanit is now past the 12+2 days? also Wescotts letters state that my account has been put on hold until the documentation has been found however it obviously has not as they have continued to harass me by phone and text and today again by letter since they were sent the the CCA request.

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Yes they are in default of the request what ever letters are sent regarding "delays" in getting the information required.

Write back and tell them the account is now in dispute and is unenforceable until a fully compliant agreement is produced.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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I would also send the harassment by telephone letter to westcot. Technically the account is not in dispute but is unenforceable until they comply fully with your lawful request.

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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What exactly is the roll of Immediate Financial in these debts?

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Thanks for the above,

 

Immediate Financial are dmp providers we were with and were "dealing" using the term in its loosest sense it appears,

with our creditors on our behalf although it appears now that they were'nt which has caused some of the above to default

and end up with the debt collectors we are now taking matters back in hands ourselves

and are in the process of trying to recover the money from our client account with IF.

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Personally i think doing it yourself is the best option. Are you saying that IF were not making payments on time to your creditors.

Just a heads up, a DMP is an informal arrangement and debts can and do get passed on to DCAs and sold on as well as defaults placed. In fact in the old ICO guidelines being in a DMP was an indicator of the relationship having broken down and a default could be place

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Hi Fletch yes IF were not making payments on time to our creditors despite reassuring us everytime we rang them that they were, we are still waiting on a reply from IF regarding our complaints and request for the return of our money from our client account so we can use it to pay some of our creditors.

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Hi Purp

That is really not good. How long ago did you make the complaint to IF?

 

Have you read this https://www.immediatefinancial.co.uk/Complaint-Handling

 

TBH even if you can resolve the complaint without having to take it further I would still think about putting in a complaint to the FCA. I think that getting this bit sorted is your first priority. After that maybe look to see if their negligence has caused you any loss or potential loss

 

I am assuming that you were on a debt settlement plan with only token payments being made to your creditors. Have you spoken to anyone about if this was good or bad advice.

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Hi fletch, sent the complaint about a fortnight ago, had a letter saying they have had the letter and are investigating, yes they were making token payments only but based on what we were paying into the client account monthly they have had more than enough money to pay off the smallest debt even without negotiating it down which they reckoned they would do.

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Ok so they have another 6 weeks to go before they have to respond. This will be why you have defaults etc but first thing us get your money back. Meanwhile i would be getting those cca requests off.

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Had another letter from Wescot today

 

saying they will not uphold the complaint of harassment as they have only rung 7 times all within thier usual opening hours of 08.00 -21.00

and denying they sent the text message I recieved at 00.51am which woke me up!

 

I've just been through my phone and I have 17 calls which can be attributed to Wescots

 

3 different phone numbers and

 

also 3 text messages

 

although I know there have been more of those too.

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usual rubbish

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Make sure you keep those calls . I use call blocker on my android and it keeps a record of any calls or txts received from blacklisted numbers. I have 7 from MKRR but not one since they got my letter.

That is the usual rubbish from wescot. These are the people who in all seriousness referred to the credit consumer act and did not see anything wrong when I requested a copy of such legislation. It really is a series of emails that would make any judge need some Tena pads

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Hi fletch, I am doing have written them all down and they will be listed when I reply to Wescot, just working on a suitable reply to their high and mighty I've also got to get my wife to go through her phone as well as they were texting and ringing her too.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Latest update

 

we have had contact from Immediate Financial,

 

apologizing for not having settled any debts in the 12 months we have been with them

and

 

giving us a figure for monies held for us in our client account which is nearer to what we believed it should be

 

which they have offered to return without complaint,

 

Wescot have backed down although not completely but have a sort of half apologetic letter from them

and they are now willing to accept £1 per month from us as they were from IF,

 

Buchanan Clark and Wells however have sent a long rambling letter saying that they threatened doorstep collection

as we had not replied to thier original letters but then contradict themselves by saying they did get our letters

but as we did not follow up with a financial statement and offer of payment this is what escalated the matter!

 

BCW never acknowledged receipt of the two letters we sent until I sent copies of both with my last letter to them

and sent it recorded, last letter I sent them also included the doorstep collection letter off here,

 

BCW claim that the case referenced in that letter is not relevant?

and also that apparently by signing the original CCA with Barclays that we agreed to doorstep collection as part of any debt recovery required by default?!

 

I also offered to honour the payment agreemment made with them by IF and continue paying the £1 per month

however they say they will not put this in place without a financial statement.

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usual crap from BCW then. BC do not say that anywhere

 

however

 

I'd be starting a new thread for each now

 

hows the IF SAR going?

 

got all the statements yet?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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