Carter / Lowell claimform old Lloyds OD 'debt'*** Claim Struck Out***

[potman100]

Hi

 

Firstly thanks for any info / help you can provide.

 

I have received a summons this morning from Bryan Carter Sols on behalf of Lowell's.

 

The claim I think relates to an overdraft I had with Lloyds Bank a few years ago,

but as normal I have not received any information apart from on the summons it

shows

 

Re: Lloyds and an account number.

 

The summons also says "The Debit was Assigned / Purchased by Lowell Portfolio Ltd.

 

I did have an account with Lloyds for many years, but when I had issues getting work

and failed to keep up repayments on a loan I had with the them they closed my account

and took me to court for the outstanding loan.

 

I'm at a bit of a loss in what I need to do now and wondered if there is any way I

can fight Bryan Carter / Lowell's in this case. It seems strange that Lloyds took me

to court for the loan which was not much more than the overdraft but decided to

sell the overdraft debit on.

 

Thanks

 

Potman100

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Sorry you were missed.

 

I am going to move this to the legal issues section as you will get more help there than here.

 

In the meantime, have you made any payment to this overdraft in the last 6 years (5 in Scotland)OR admitted (in writing) that you owe this debt?

[dx100uk]

please fill this out

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-April-2014**

[potman100]

Thanks for the reply's

 

silverfox1961 : Looking at some paper work, it was in 2010 that the account was closed, no I have not admitted the debt.

 

 

dx100uk :

 

Name of the Claimant Lowell Portfolio

 

Date of issue 14 April 2014

 

What is the claim for :

 

This Claim is for £ XXX the amount due under an agreement between the original creditor

and the defendant to provide finance and / or services and / or goods.

 

What is the value of the claim ?

 

£1975.31

 

Has the claimant included section 69 interesticon (8%)within the total claim or is it shown separate within the Particulars but not added to the debt?

 

It is specified in the particulars, but has also been added to the Amount Claimed

 

YES

 

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phone account ?

 

Current Account

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007 ?

 

Before (1999)

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

 

Lowell Portfolio Ltd

 

The summons also says "The Debit was Assigned / Purchased by Lowell Portfolio Ltd.

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment ?

 

NO

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor ?

 

Not that I can remember.

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

 

NO

 

Why did you cease payments:-

 

Out of work and they closed the account

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved ?

 

NO

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan ?

 

They knew I had problems after defaulting on the load I had, they just closed the account.

 

Is this all the info you need ?

 

Regards

 

Potman100

Edited April 17, 2014 by potman100

[AndyOrch]

Hi potman

 

Ok I would send the following off to the solicitor named on the claim first thing after the holidays

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387483-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-when-Claim-is-being-made-for-a-Current-Account

 

Your time line is 33 days if defending...19 days to acknowledge service of the claim and a further 14 days to submit your defence.

 

The section 69 interest should not be included in the amount claimed it is at the discretion of the court and if they are successful it would be then added.

Likewise it should not be included on your CRAs defaults.

 

What was the outcome with the Lloyd Personal Loan did they attain judgment? The reason they have sold the O/D off is because it can be rather precarious to enforce.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[potman100]

Hi andyorch

 

Thanks for reply.

 

I will send the CPR request first thing Tuesday, I have not acknowledged the claim yet, when do you think I should, after I have sent the CPR request ? say Wednesday ?

 

LLoyds got a judgment on the loan, and I still pay monthly to that.

 

Regards

 

Potman100

[AndyOrch]

You have 19 days to AoS from the date on the claim form.....your choice when.

[potman100]

Hi again

 

Wonder if you can help with a couple of other points I was thinking of ?

 

If Lowell has purchased the debt, does the payment they made for it satisfy the credit agreement, I read some where that this was the case !

 

And if they have not purchased the debt they will have been assigned the debt, they are using the Law of Property Act 1925, is it worth using

the template for requesting proof of assignment ?

 

Regards

 

Potman100

[AndyOrch]

They would not dare issue a claim in their name if they did not legally own the debt.As for what they purchased it for ...(probably 10p in the £1) is of no concern between you the debtor and the claimant.

[potman100]

Ok, just remembered reading some where online, that if they purchased the debt, the purchase satisfied the original credit agreement

and without an agreement between me and lowell it was unenforcable in a court.

 

There is so much conflicting advice online, just thought I would ask.

 

Thanks for your help

[AndyOrch]

Sound a tad like fruit of the loom nonsense what you refer to...assignees are not part of the agreement that is between you and the original creditor.The original creditor will always include in its terms and conditions the right to assign any bad debt.They will have already wrote the debt off and claimed tax relief so any sale to a third part is profit..... be it 10p or 50p in the £.

 

The terms of that assignment are within the deed of assignment which you the debtor are not privy.

[potman100]

No probs, I will send the CPR off and acknowledge service, will keep this thread updated with any communication from Bryan Carter.

 

Thanks again

[potman100]

Hi andyorch

 

Just had a letter back from BC and he says :

 

This is a simple contractual matter and part 31 of the CPR will there for not apply. In any event the notices of Default and Assigment left the control of the claimant when they were dispached to you.

 

They say to refer to my own records.

 

They also say :

 

We confirm our client is not agreeable to an extension for filling your defence.

 

Any idea's

 

Regards

 

Potman

[dx100uk]

sri thats our mistake

 

carter will always reply with that letter

 

which is why we recommend where carter is involved

 

send docs to the claimant lowells.

 

nothing to worry about

 

sev threads here with the same reply & on what to do.

[dx100uk]

worth of a read

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?415443-Claim-form-received-carter-lowells-Lloyds-Overdraft&p=4522518#post4522518

[potman100]

thanks dx, I will have a read of that thread.

 

Regards

 

Potman

[potman100]

Hi dx / Andy

 

A couple of things I would like your help with if possible.

 

1. Do I resend the CPR request to Lowells ?

 

2. The summons date is 14th April, so does this mean I have to file my defense no later than the 23rd of May ?

 

I had a read of the link dx posted above, and the case looks the same as my current case, would I just use the following as my defense :

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out

its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2.Paragraph 1 is noted. I have had financial dealings with Lloyds in the past. It is denied I have any knowledge of the above

Claimant or if any alleged debt was assigned to them.The Claimant has never made any contact apart from the issuing of this claim.

 

3.Paragraph 2 is denied.I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment.

 

 

4.Paragraph 3 is denied the claimant has not complied with Section III & IV and annex B of the PD Pre Action Conduct as stated above

they have never made any contact or request prior to the issuing of this claim.

 

On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request dated 21 April 2014 for a copy of the overdraft

facility agreement,Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974, notice of assignment and a

statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, which form the basis of this claim.

This was signed for by the claimants solicitors on 22/04/2014. The claimant has yet to comply.

 

Therefore the claimant in their none compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify

their claim and against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arise.

 

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is

owed.

 

On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a

claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon

Act 1974.

 

Until such time the Claimant can comply with my request for a copy of the Overdraft facility agreement/Notice served

under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 it relies upon they are prevented from enforcing or requesting any relief

as pursuant to the CCA 1974

 

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

I have also sent the following letter to BC :

 

 

Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

 

Thank you for your response to my request for disclosure of documents mentioned in your statement of case under CPR 31.14.

 

With regards to your assertion that ”we confirm this matter will most properly be allocated to the small claim track as this is a simple contractual matter and part 31 of the civil procedure rules will therefore not apply.” I am afraid I must disagree, the case has not been allocated to a track for determination and as a consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) have no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

I am unable to lodge my defence and/or counterclaim at this moment as I have no information regarding the alleged debt. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition I require a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unwilling to comply with my request for specific disclosure please inform me and I will consider entering an application to the court to obtain such.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 7 days.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Regards & Thanks

 

Potman

[yamamoto]

Hi Potman - have you had a reply to the above letter sent to BC regarding the non compliance with cpr request ?

 

I have just had the exact same letter back from them so am considering sending something similar - my main problem is they have not agreed to an extension of time and my defnce is due to be submitted in 6 days time :/

[potman100]

Hi

 

Yes, had the same response as you, the exact same letter back.

 

I had a look around the various forums and decided to just submit my defense, as it seem's that what ever you send to BC they will just ignore it and send a template letter back.

 

I submitted the following defense, I was hoping that the court will take the view that as I'm unable to clarify the amount claimed / Assignment ect, they will force BC to produce the relevant documents ???

 

 

1. I have had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group in the past but unsure of any balances or ever been contacted by Lloyds Banking in connection with any outstanding debt.

 

2. I am not aware or have ever been informed of any legal assignment of this account number to the claimant

 

It is denied with regards to the amount the Defendant owing monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(i) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for.

(ii) Show the APR and interest used to calculate the amount claimed for.

 

On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request dated XX XXXX XX for a copy of:

 

(i) The Overdraft facility agreement and Terms and Conditions from that date

(ii) Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

(iii) Notice of assignment

(iv) Statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, which forms the basis of this claim.

 

This was signed for by the claimant’s solicitors on XX XXXX XXXX. The claimant failed to comply with this request.

 

Therefore the claimant in their none compliance to my requests has frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arises.

 

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) Show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant

(b) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for

© Show Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974.

 

Until such time the Claimant can comply with my request for a copy of the Overdraft facility agreement/Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 it relies upon they are prevented from enforcing or requesting any relief pursuant to the CCA 1974

 

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

I have received a letter from the court saying they have accepted my defense and BC has 28 days to respond, its been 10 days and have not had anything from BC yet.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Potman

[yamamoto]

Thanks for the reply, appreciated

[AndyOrch]

Yes thats an overdraft defence that I penned for another poster it is ideal to use in your particular case.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

PS. Dont chase CPR/CCA requests...you only request them once... they know their legal responsibilities

[potman100]

Hi Andy

 

Yes, had a good read of the forums to find it, and its seems futile to converse with BC, will just have to wait and see what his response is ?

 

Regards

 

Potman

[AndyOrch]

See how/if he responds to the defence:wink:

[potman100]

Hi Andy

 

Got a response from BC this morning, he has sent a Consent order, the letter says :

 

They have been notified that I have filled a defence, and In an attempt to settle this matter before hearing and to save each party further costs they will accept the full amount by installments. They have also included a Consent Order from Northhampton County Court.

 

Any Idea's what he is up to ?

 

Regards

 

Potman

[bdcarr]

Potman

 

Standard process from BC, they did the same to me. Trying to get you to admit all and then you have no defense in court.