Help needed re: claim from Arrow Global/Wilkin Chapman Solicitors/cap1 cc

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Dang lost internet connection and only just got it back. Can't get the scanner to work so think everything's against me at the moment. Had a good look at the documents they sent me. The application form copy Is genuine and has a small box above name address details titled credit card account agreement. Can't read it clearly but only about half a dozen lines.

The cca/terms and conditions could possibly be a copy of what would have been sent with the card to be signed and sent back but never was. Has name/address and theirs also. Terms and conditions relate to the card at issue. The last page has the right to cancel Etc. It says

Once you have signed you will have for a short time a right to cancel this agreement.

Also under important you should read this carefully your rights, it says

The consumer credit act 1974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which must be satisfied when this agreement is made. If you are not, we cannot enforce the Agreement against you without a court order etc etc

So if this was not a reconstituted copy and is supposed to be a copy of the genuine then shouldn't it be signed?

Sorry clutching at straws here. Still I stand by having never heard from them at all until this court claim. If it was assigned to them in 2011 then why did they never write or phone.

Oh and sorry I got confused I don't need to send a defence it was the witness statements etc that will be relied on in court. But still need to be done by this Thursday as I can hand deliver to the court.

 

 

A reconstituted agreement, does not have to have any signatures.

Are all the terms and conditions included, i.e. from the start and the end of the life of the agreement? Is your name and address at the time of signing showing?

[kylie1dw]

Yes the name and address are showing but the terms and conditions only relate to the card at the time of issue.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes the name and address are showing but the terms and conditions only relate to the card at the time of issue.

 

 

If possible can you post up a suitably redacted copy of what you have received please?

[kylie1dw]

ok. I can't scan it up so will type it out, bear with me

[kylie1dw]

CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

Terms and conditions

This agreement is between XXXXXXXX and us.

1. Definitions. In this Agreement, the words, "we", "us" and "our" mean Capital One Bank, 3rd Floor, 18 Hanover Square, London W1R 9DA, and its successors or assigns. The word "card" means any credit card issued to you or to any additional cardholders nominated by you. The words "you, "your" and "yours" refer to the person who entered into this agreement with us. The words "Base RAte" mean the base lending rate of the UK clearing banks, as advised by the Bank of England from time to time. If a spread of rates is advised by the Bank of England, the lowest rate will be the Base Rate.

2. Card Issue. We will open and maintain a credit card acccount (the 'Account') in your name to which we will debit the amount of any balance transferred to the Account (subject to a minimum of £50.00) from another financial institution("Balance Transfer"), all purchases made and cash advances obtained ("Transactions"), and any interest and other fees, costs and charges payable under this Agreement, and we will issue to you a card for your use and a card for each additional cardholder nominated by you. All cards issued by us are and remain our property and must be returned on request and may be retained by any person acting on our behalf. CArd(s) must only be used while valid. The validity dates are printed on the Card(s).

3. Credit Limits. We will set and notify you of the credit limit for your Account. Unless we notify you of a different limit, cash advances may not exceed 50% of your credit limit. The credit limit and the amount of available credit are shown on your Monthly Statement. The Card may be used to make purchases or obtain cash advances only up to your credit limit. If and credit limit is exceeded, the cards must not be used and you must immediately pay us enough to bring the balance on your Account within the credit limits.

4. Security. You must sign your card and ensure that any aditional cardholder signs their card as soon as the card are received. You must always ensure that you and any additional cardholder keep your cards safe and comply with any other instructions we give to you about the use and safekeeping of the card. You must not allow the card to be used by anyone other than the person whose name appears on the card. You must only disclose (and you mustalso ensure that any additional cardholder only discloses) the number on the card to make purchases or to obtain cash advances, to a card protection scheme authorised by us or to report a card lost or stolen.

5. Personal Identification Number. We will issue tou a Personal Identification number (PIN) for use in connection with your Account. This PIN may be used by you and additional cardholder. We may change the PIN at any time for security purposes. You must ensure that you and any additional cardholder keep this PIN secret at all times; never disclose it to anyone else (even our own staff) for any purpose; immediately on receipt of the PIN memorise the PIN and destroy the notification slip; never keep a record of the PIN either on the card or with the card; and never keep a record of the PIN without trying, as far as possible, to disguise it.

6. CArd. The card issued on your Account can be used only by the person named on the card to buy goods or services and to obtain cash advances wherever the ard is honoured. We will not be liable to you in any way if a supplier refuses to accept the card as payment for any goods or services or if a financial istitution refuses (or an ATM fails) to make any cash advance. Subject to your Statutory rights, your account will only be credited with refunds if the supplier is liable to make a refund and we receive a properly issued refund voucher or other appropiate notice from the supplied.

7. Promise to pay. You promise to pay us in accordance with this Agrement the total amount of each Transaction, whether or not a purchase or cash advance voucher is signed by you or the additional cardholder and each Balance Transfer, plus any interst or other fees, costs and charges due to us under the terms of this agreement. All payments must be made in sterling and delivered or sent to us at the address shown on your monthly statement.

8. Monthly statement. We will normally send you a statement each month showing all transactions and blalance transfers posted to your account since your last statement. The monthly statement sent to you within a particular calender month could include transactions and balance transfers posted to your account in a previous calender month. The monthly statement will also tell you the amount outstanding on your account on the date of the monthly statement (the new Balance). Until this agreement is terminated and all outstanding liabilities discharged, interest will continue to accrue evenif, for any reason, we are unable to produce or sen a monthly statement to you. In order to calculate interst, we may select any date each month as the statement date.

9. Pre-payment option. You may pay mmore than the minimum payment. If you make a payment in excess of the minimum payment, we may from time to time allow you to make a reduced or no minimum payment for up to a maximum of three of your next monthly statements. Interest charges will continue to accrue during this period.

10. Financial and related Particulars. We will set and notify you of the crdit limit for your account, We may change your credit limit at any time and will notify you of any change. interest will be charged for each statement period on the average daily outstanding balance including all transactions and other charges debited to the account. In the case of purchases and balance transfers, the interst rate is equal to 6.78% which will apply up until your January 1999 statement after which interest will be charged at a rate equal to the base rate, as at the seventh day prior to the beginning of the statement period, plus a margin of 9.42% per annum for purchases and for balance transfers the margin is 9.42% per annum. For cash advances the margin will be 11.03% per annum. There is also a handling fee of 1.5% on cash advances(minimum £1.50). The base rate may change from time to time. At the date this agreement was prepared, this formula gave and interset rate of 16.67% per annum for purchases and an interest rate of 16.67% for balance transfers after your January 1999 monthly statement and 18.28% per annum for cash advances (plus 1.5% handling fee). For those charges in section 11 that are applied to your account, interest will be charged as if they were purchases.

The APR for purchases and balance transfers is 6.9% up until january 1999 monthly statement and the APR for purchases is 17.9% and the APR for balance transfers is 17.9% from that statement. the APR for cash advances is 21.7%

You must make the minimum payment by the due date shown on your monthy statement. The amount of the monimum payment will be shown on your monthly statememnt and will be an amount equal to 3% of the new balance or £5, whichever is greater. In addition, you must immediately pay any amounts in excess of your credit limit or which are overdue and the amount of any Transaction made in breach of this agreement. In calculating the APR, we have not taken account of any changes in the base rate after your january 1999 monthly statement or cash advance handling fee, both of which may be varied. The margin above the base rate applied to your account may also be varied by us from time to time for any reason, including changes in the way you use your account or in your credit score. Any balance outstanding when your january 1999 statement isi produced will be charged at the new rate. Interest will be calculated on a daily basis on the outstanding balance of all transactions and balance transfers from the date of the transaction or balance transfer, until the date of payment in full. Accrued interest will be debited to your account on each statement date. However, you will not have to pay any interest on any purchases processed to your account after the date of your previous statement if a) you repaid the full amount of the outstanding balance shown on that previous statement by the due date for payment shown on that previous statement, and b) you repay the full amount of the new balance on your new statememnt by the due date for payment shown on that neww statememnt. you cannot avoid interest charges on cash advances or balance transfers but the earlier you make your payment, the less interest charges you will incur.

11. Other charges. In addition to the interest charges, the following charges may be be charged and debited to your account.

a) Late or default charge. A late or default charge of £10.00 will be imposed if we do not receive your minimum payment withing 5 days after the due date shown on your monthly statement.

b) Returned cheque charge. You agree to pay us a returned cheque charge of £10.00 if you pay us with a cheque and the cheque is returned to usfor any reason.

c)Overlimit charge. You agree to pay us an overlimit charge of £10.00 for each period between statememnts dates during which the balance of your account at any time exceeded your credit limit by £1.00 or more.

d) Administration charges. We reserve the right to charge fees for dealing with any special requests made by you in connection with this agreement, including (to the extent permitted by law) requests for acces to data under the data protection act 1984. The amount of these charges may be varied by us on giving you such notice as is required by law.

12. Payment protection Insurance. didn't take this

13. Application of Payments. Subject to any mandatory provisions of applicable law, all payments made by you will be applied to the balance in your account in the manner we determine.

14. Additional cardholders. not applicable

15. Default. you will be in default under this agreement if you faill to pay the minimum payment on time or any credit limit on your account is exceeded. You will also be in default under this agreement if (1) you breach any ofthe other terms of this agreement, or (2) you made any false or misleading statements on your application, or (3) we receive notice of a proposed volunary arrangement or compromise with your creditors generally or (4) a bankruptcy petition is presented against you.

If you die or are in default, we may (subject only to giving you any notice of or right to cure the default required by law) close your account and demand payment of the entire outstainding balance in your account immediately. Any introductory interest rate will no longer apply after we have closed your account and demanded repayment of the whole amount owed by you. Interest will continue to be charged both before and after any judgement against you. To the extent permitted by law, you agree to pay all court costs and collection expenses incurred by us in the collection of any amount you owe us under this agreement. You also agree to pay any costs we may incur in retrieving your card, including any costs we may incur by having your account placed on a restricted list.

16. Lost or Stolen cards. standard drivel

17. Billing address. If more than one person is permitted to use the account, you agree that all notices regarding the account may be sent solely to the address shown on our billing records. You agree to give us notice immediately in writing of any change in your billing addres. you also agree to notify us in writing if you change your name or if any additional cardholder changes their name.

18. Variations. We may on giving such notice as may be required by law,amend, vary or supplement the terms of this agreement at any time. In any event, if we change the interest rate or the way it is calculated, the new rate or calculation will apply to the whole account blance from the effective date of the change, whether or not the account balnce includes items posted to the acoount before that date and whether or not you continue to use the account. If you do not accept such changes, you may close the account.

19. Foreign Transactions. blah blah

20. Closing your account. blah blah

21. Termination of your account. In addition to our rights under clause 15, we can terminate your account by giving you at least 7 days notice in writing at the address shown on our billing records. you will still be required to pay any amounts you owe us, including purchases and other charges and cash advances that have not been billed to you yet. you must also cut in half and return all cards

22. General. The invalidity of any provision of this agreement shall not affect the validity of any other provision. We shall not be liable for any failure to perform our obligations as a result of computer systems or ATM failure, industrial dispute or any circumstances beyond our control.

We can delay enforcing our rights under this agreement without losing them. We can also accept late payments or partial payments or cheque and money orders marked payment in full or other similar language without losing any of our rights under this agreement.

23. Use of data. Blah Blah

24. Governig Law. This agreement is governed by English law.

The last page is boxes with Important - you should read this carefully your rights; loss or misuse of card or cheques; balance transfer conditions and your right to cancel

[kylie1dw]

I forgot to say the covering letter with the documents says they have enclosed copies of the credit card agreement, terms and conditions and the statement of account. They don't mention its a reconstituted copy

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Are the other pages included?

[kylie1dw]

What other pages? The above was all of it and obviously loads of pages for the statement of account and a copy of the application form. Where Iv'e written in red I didn't type up those paragraphs. They haven't said it was a reconstituted copy hence why I thought it should be signed.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Are the other pages included?

Signature Box? Signed?

[kylie1dw]

no there is nothing regarding a signature box. the only signature is on the application form

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

no there is nothing regarding a signature box. the only signature is on the application form

So you have 1 unsigned alleged credit agreement of 3 pages? And 1 signed application form.

Is the app form the only part of these documents that have your name and address on?

[kylie1dw]

no the cca/t &c has the name and address on it too

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

no the cca/t &c has the name and address on it too

What detail is on the App form has it been stamped or annotated as accepted/authorised/issued?

Is there and interest rate (s) showing on the Ts & Cs, does the app form state anywhere what the rate specifically applied to your card would be?

 

 

The alleged Ts & Cs states that the credit limit will be advised.

 

 

My contention would be that if the "Actual" credit limit and the applicable interest rates at the time of issue of the card these documents do not comply with the CCA request as "recon" or actual copy.

 

 

Others may have an opinion on this.

[kylie1dw]

Yes the application form had been signed by them. It also shows the percentage rate . And t & c also as I typed in #30

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes the application form had been signed by them. It also shows the percentage rate . And t & c also as I typed in #30

Ok What about the actual credit limit applicable when the card was issued?

[kylie1dw]

On app form they have filled in the small box at bottom

The cl box which I presume is credit limit states 6000

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

On app form they have filled in the small box at bottom

The cl box which I presume is credit limit states 6000

Thank you for answering the questions!

 

 

It is possible I think that a judge may accept that a liability subsists here, the agreement was signed prior to April 2007 so the actual signed (or a proper copy not a recon is required to be produced) to enforce via the courts.

 

 

I'm going to ask some one to look in for you to get another opinion.

[kylie1dw]

not sure what that means. As to not having heard from arrow prior to receiving a court claim does that have any bearing on this case? I shall include it in the witness statement anyway, which I must get started on fairly soon as it should have been in yesterday.

[AndyOrch]

Try not to be distracted here Kylie...you must be prompt when complying with court directions.

 

Andy

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

not sure what that means. As to not having heard from arrow prior to receiving a court claim does that have any bearing on this case? I shall include it in the witness statement anyway, which I must get started on fairly soon as it should have been in yesterday.

 

 

In post 1# you say that "some months ago you had a letter from Wilkin Chapman which was ignored" was this " a letter before action" perhaps?

[kylie1dw]

yes may well have been. But as it was a letter demanding I pay their clients whom I had never heard of it was duly ignored and thrown out. And acknowlegement of it will be included

[Ganymede]

not sure what that means. As to not having heard from arrow prior to receiving a court claim does that have any bearing on this case? I shall include it in the witness statement anyway, which I must get started on fairly soon as it should have been in yesterday.

 

What do you mean your witness statement should have been in yesterday?!

 

You can't just flaunt Court directions and file documents whenever you feel like it. You are technically now in breach and may have to apply for relief from sanctions etc.

[tiggrae]

not sure what that means. As to not having heard from arrow prior to receiving a court claim does that have any bearing on this case? I shall include it in the witness statement anyway, which I must get started on fairly soon as it should have been in yesterday.

 

If the hearing is 30th July 2014 your Witness Statement should have been submitted on 16th July 2014 (14 days ahead) you're now in danger of having your defence dismissed or disregarded if you haven't complied with the Order of the Court - it's vital these dates are adhered to.

[kylie1dw]

Well had my day in court on Thursday, and it was nothing like I expected.

On entering we said good morning your honour, the court office has advised me to tell you that a witness statement has not been received. To which he replied, that's funny I haven't seen one either. Cue an extremely red faced young man. Judge said well might have to adjourn till I piped up We're not coming back again.

So he asked to look at their copy, and with a wry grin on his face he said he would allow it. I must have looked horrified as he said bear with me on this.

As arrow went through it point by point the judge kept looking at our statement and reading the consumer credit act and various law books and preceded to shoot him down spectacularly. It was so hard not to laugh. They had produced an reconstituted copy of a letter of assignment, and the judge said that means made up to me what's your meaning for it. He waffled on about it being allowed as probability or something . At this point the judge said he'd heard enough and was going to dismiss the case. He then spent 10 minutes reading him the riot act, about blatant lies in their statement etc and told him to pass it all onto his employers. He also said that recently dca's have been relying heavily on reconstituted copies of documents and in his opinion they were abusing the privileges. He would be bringing it to the law council or something like that and asked if he could use our case for it.

It ended with him officially dismissing the case and awarding costs to us.

 

So a big THANK YOU for everyone's help and opinions it meant a lot and was a huge help.

[kylie1dw]

Oh and one last thing. As the case was dismissed I asked if they were able to get hold of original documents could they make another claim and he said absolutely not. Once it has been dismissed no one can make a claim on that debt again. They can appeal but only with with the documents already in play.