Friend has had notification of court proceedings from Barclays / Woolwich Mortgages / TLT Solicitors

[IamPhil]

I have read with interest the issue with woolwich barclays/tlt solicitors.

 

I also have a friend who has just had notification as regards court proceedings with both parties.

 

I can provide fuller details, in short last year my friend became unable to make full payments on her mortgage of approx £400, an advisor was 'despatched and an offer £180 made (and paid monthly), this offer was rejected. My friend had asked about a mortgage extension and was told as she was in arrears and one payment had not been made that would not be considered (there are 12 years left on the mortgage). I got authority to speak on her behalf a couple of days into 2014. Letters sent to my friend say how the bank will consider all proposals, in talking to the bank they will only accept re-payment in full of the arrears (now at approx £4,000). My friend has basically re-structured her finances (where there is little scope to do that) to be able to offer more. My friend has sent of a fax to that end (first offer being a basic repayment over an extended period for the full amount due). I have details from the bank as to how much payments for an officially sanctioned extension would be for numerous extension periods which I would 'fall' back on in negotiation (as the initial offer does not include interest, etc. It is simply the amount divided by the amount of years of extension). Barclays do not put the fax on their system for 5 days then its about a human seeing it then replying etc. My friend has a court date for the 24th of this month (Feb 2014)..

 

Is there any way I could contact you directly, so able to give more precise figures and more insight as to what has happened as from what I have read you give excellent advise and I can not tell you how much it would be appreciated.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I've started a new thread for you because the one you posted on dated back to 2011. I'm not sure who you want to contact directly, but I'm afraid that isn't how we operate. All advice is kept on the public thread so it can be scrutinised, for your own protection and that of the people advising you.

 

I expect the forum guys will be along later.

 

My best, HB

[slick132]

Hi Iamphil,

 

The identical post you made has now been removed.

 

So the right folk can help you, please give more info about the hearing later this month like :-

 

What court forms or notices you've received.

 

Whether you have given the lender a completed I&E summary.

 

[Ell-enn]

Hi, have you completed the N11M defence form which should have come with the claim for possession from the court ?

[IamPhil]

I was just detailing my friends circumstances.

 

To quickly answer the questions though:-

 

Slick

 

Court forms received are:-

 

Particulars of Claim for Possession (N120) - Four Pages

Claim form for possession of property (N5) - Two pages

Defence Form (N11M) - Eight pages

Notes for defendant (N7)

Local Information of HM Courts & Tribunal Service (EX104 PCOL)

First time at court (EX370)

 

Income and Expenditure Summary was submitted to Barclays in early 2013

 

Ell

 

No the N11M is not yet filled in.

Edited February 5, 2014 by IamPhil
missed the I & E summary line

[IamPhil]

Thank you for that HB.

 

The reason that I added it to that particular thread was because of the similarities of mortgage company and solicitors and the excellent advice given throughout.

 

There were two major contributors, Ellen and Lea (amongst others) on that initial thread and it was to 'them' I asked ref giving additional information to get the truest advice I could get on the situation.

 

I understand the public policy and so will adhere to that and put forward the details for advice on...

 

30 year mortgage taken out 18 years ago.

Mortgage commences with Woolwich Barclays in May 2005. As of January 2014 there were 12 years and 2 months left on the mortage.

Monthly mortgage £392.

 

My friend is a single parent of 17 who lives in the home and is going to college.

 

My friend works.

 

My friends circumstances changed with the household going from a 2 income household to a single income household at end of 2012 / the beginning of 2013.

 

In Nov 2012 there was late payment of the mortgage.

 

In February 2013 my friend became unable to pay the full mortgage.

 

In asking for a remortgage to assist, my friend was told due to a late payment that would not be considered. since then queries as regards a mortgage extension have been refused to be considered. I have, however, managed to get details of what the payment amounts would be for extensions on the mortgage as per her actual account which drastically reduce the payment from £392 and make it possible for the mortgage to be paid in full.

 

An adviser sent by the bank (and charged to my friend) did a home visit and a proposal was put - £180 pcm. The bank rejected this however those payments are all my friend was able to make. Since June 2014 £180 per month has been paid for mortgage payments to this date.

 

As a result the arrears have accrued.

 

Not included fully are my friends circumstances of the last short period. What the record shows over the 18 years is a record of good payment, even through financial meltdowns across the globe.

 

At the end of the 2013 my friends workplace had to reduce all staffs wages by 10%.

 

My friend has spoken to Citizens Advice (May 2013) and PayPlan (still with).

 

The court date is set for Feb 2014.

 

In talking to TLT Solicitors they have confirmed that any proposal put to them is first put to Barclays who then get back to TLT who then get back to my friend.

 

Is there any other information you would like?

 

I understand the county court system However I do not know how judges tend to see and make judgement when the mortgage amount is not being made. A mortgage extension would allow my friend to make payments as regards the mortgage (the mortgage figure is now the outstanding mortgage and the arrears, so paying off the arrears) and a Home Owner Loan and a Mortgage Current Account Loan.

Edited February 5, 2014 by IamPhil
there was more to add

[IamPhil]

No, the defence form has not been completed yet

Edited February 5, 2014 by IamPhil
wrong posting

[Lea_HTH]

The dates make no sense.

 

You state your friend is a single 'parent of 17' - one presumes you mean single parent to A 17 year old.

 

Try not typing so much information - it's fairly pointless until you're asked.

 

Simple fact of all possession proceedings and likely judgment (despite what else you might read on this forum), is that to stop possession, the monthly instalment plus something towards the arrears to clear them in a reasonable time (which can be the remaining term of the loan) MUST be made. If that payment can't be made, then a possession order is likely to follow.

 

Why can't your friend manage the payment? What other debts does she have? The mortgage has to be the priority. If she genuinely can't afford it, then she should contact the mortgage rescue scheme at the local authority and make an application as soon as possible.

 

The loan company is not obliged to extend the loan and are extremely unlikely to do so when there are arrears. The judge can't do anything about that - it's not within his or her power.

[IamPhil]

I am sorry, I do not know where the confusion with the dates is. Maybe it is the mortgage length?

 

The present mortgage commenced in May 2005 and is due to end in 12 years and 2 month as of mid January 2014 (when I last got clarification of the remaining mortgage term from Barclays.

 

I apologise for my typing/grammatical error. Yes, you are correct, that should have read '... single parent of a 17 year old child'.

 

With the simply put, it then stands to reason that full amount of the mortgage is expected, £392 monthly, and an amount to re-pay the mortgage arrears within the term of the remaining period of the mortgage. It then following that without those monies possession awarded to the bank would be the likely outcome.

 

My friend cannot manage the payments as the household went from a two adult income household to a single adult income household. The impact of that has been financially crippling.

 

There are numerous other debts.They are non-priority debts and have always been treated as that. The mortgage has always been the priority where food has taken second place. The central heating ceased working in Nov 2012 and has not been fixed (two winters of no central heating or hot water in the taps) so as to put money towards the mortgage. My friend has not been swanning off on holiday. My friend is underpaid at their job, however does it so they have a job and have money coming to go towards the mortgage, even with wage reductions taking my friend to the brink of the poverty line, despite working a full time, making sure the child is feed, before my friend who honestly does not always get to eat (I do no say that in jest or for impact, I say that because it is and has been so). I thought that would help to just to clarify how much the mortgage issue and payments have absolutely been at the forefront of my friends mind and money allocation.

 

No, the mortgage at the original amount, £392, is not affordable by my friend. What, may I ask, is the Mortgage Rescue Scheme?

 

I fully understand the loan company not having to do anything to change an arrangement that my friend signed up to, less so with arrears. I hoped to be able to illustrate to a judge how, with re-structuring (extension or mortgage) full payment of all monies could be attained by the loan company with a properly laid out plan. With an extension the loan company would receive more in actuality. A payment plan that could be sanctioned by the court, any non-adherence to that plan by my friend ceasing the agreement and resorting in the re-activation of possession proceedings by the loan company. A scenario unlikely to be accepted by a judge in court I now gather.

Edited February 6, 2014 by IamPhil
typo correction

[honeybee13]

Here's the CAB advice on mortgage rescue schemes.

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_mortgage_problems_ew/debt_how_to_sort_out_your_mortgage_problems_e/mortgage_rescue_schemes.htm

 

HB

[Lea_HTH]

'Since June 2014' was one example - I can't be bothered going through the lengthy post again - suffice to say, it didn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

If your friend can't afford less than £400 per month for accommodation then there is a serious problem with her finances. Mortgage Rescue, as linked to by Honeybee above, looks to be the only option available to her. However, once her child is 18, she won't be eligible anymore unless she has some form of disability (or the child does).

[IamPhil]

Lea, I have of course tried to make sure all was clear for the best possible advice.

 

Since June 2014 should read 'Since June 2013'. A simple query as regards anything that was unclear, or was probably an error would suffice.

 

I do no claim to be perfect, in action or word. I kept the lines simple and tried to be chronological in detailing events.

 

I submitted those details for help as regards a financial situation, not typo errors.

 

I am sorry you cannot be bothered going through my lengthy post. I appreciate your thoughts and views thus far, as all advice is much appreciated, in whatever form and with whichever attitude it is given in this regard because, for me, it is all about helping my friend.

[IamPhil]

Honey, thank you very much for that link

[veganite]

I understand the county court system However I do not know how judges tend to see and make judgement when the mortgage amount is not being made.

 

the judge would need to see the contractual payments being made on the mortgage plus an additional amount to cover the arrears is paid. most lenders and their solicitors would probably try to get you to pay the arrears off in a very short time.... but, you can pay the arrears off over the time remaining on the mortgage which i think for your friend is 12 years. you may hear of the term 'norgan minimum' in court, this refers to the minimum amount that is payable to clear the arrears within the time left on the mortgage.

 

as well as paying the contractual payments plus additional amount for arrears, some judges would want to see paperwork or evidence that shows the payments can be met. eg, if your friend started a new job then this would be evidence to show that the mortgage can be paid. it is not necessary for a judge to see the evidence, but most bank solicitors would push for this in court since they are usually instructed to repossess.

 

perhaps your friend is entitled to some form of help, housing benefit maybe? possible to take a lodger?

 

paying just £180 instead of the contractual £400 would mean that the judge is extremely likely to make an order for repossession.

[veganite]

hello,

just wanted to add to my last post... as your thread here is quite complex in that your friend cant pay the full contractual payments, then you could consider the following:

 

ECHR article 8 - it may be possible for your friend to use this if the contractual payment can not be met.

 

this is quite complex and recent court cases have defined that if article 8 is raised in repossession hearings, then the reasons under article 8 must be exceptional.... for example if your friend had mental or physical health issues this could very well be considered.

 

i hope you find a solution for your friend!

[IamPhil]

In the salient information I detailed above, where from the onset I endeavoured not to be over informative, I also detailed that arrears, a home owner loan and a mortgage current account loan are also owed. I did not detail non-receipt of child benefit or maintenance or (family/child) tax credits, nor did I detail long term abusive relationships, and sadly parental death (Nov 2012). These all play a part in the financial situation that my friend is currently in.

 

The arrears total approx £4,000 and rising, the home owner is £22,000 and the current account £7,000. The monthly charges for the arrears have been £40 to £80 pounds (over the last year). The home owner loan and mortgage current account loan monthly payments have always been £180. These monies in addition to the mortgage, yet to the mortgage lender as regards my friends mortgage account.

 

Over the decades I cannot imagine how many thousands the non-payment of child benefit or maintenance or (family/child) tax credits adds up to. This really would become an intricate multitude of threads as regards pursuit of those monies, I however only sort/seek advice as regards mortgage related matters ref arrears/mortgages/mortgage lenders/solicitors/courts.

 

Yesterday I eventually got to speak to an actual member of the litigation team at Barclays after many an hour spent waiting listening to musac, being sent from pillar to post by call centres (nice staff though) and numerous faxes that seem to have got lost into ether. There is now two way communication which is excellent. I was able to discuss the account and put forward a proposal.

 

Any advice in the arena of negotiations between mortgage lender and mortgage holder in litigation as regards arrears/mortgage payments/mortgage account payments, where the mortgage holder needs to try and attain an extension on the mortgage term to allow the mortgage holder to be able to maintain (pay) their revised and extended mortgage whilst paying back all monies (mortgage, arrears and loans) owed to the mortgage lender.

 

 

Thank you.

[veganite]

In the salient information I detailed above, where from the onset I endeavoured not to be over informative, I also detailed that arrears, a home owner loan and a mortgage current account loan are also owed. I did not detail non-receipt of child benefit or maintenance or (family/child) tax credits, nor did I detail long term abusive relationships, and sadly parental death (Nov 2012). These all play a part in the financial situation that my friend is currently in.

 

i dont think the above would be considered exceptional circumstances enough to raise an ECHR article 8 in order to stop repossession.... unless maybe if your friend had medical notes from the GP (eg, stress, depression)

 

as your friend can not pay the arrears and can not pay the full contractual payments, perhaps a re-mortgage would be possible? this would give your friend the opportunity of clearing all secured debts and also have a longer time frame of 25 years rather than 12

 

sorry i can not give any other advice. it is complex because the contractual payments can not be paid. hopefully someone with more knowledge will be able to help you

[IamPhil]

Veganite, thank you. I saw you posts after I had posted my last one.

 

I have gone through all finances with my friend and a figure just under £400 can be paid. This paid, realistically, now and in the long term. This has only been made possible by virtue of the fact that some good friends have clubbed together to help on learning the point to which my, our friend has got.

 

I have a plethora of spreadsheets now that illustrate how all these payments are to be maintained. My friend is in work and is looking for better paid work. The present workplace underpays my friend, this is balanced by the fact that they pay my friend half monthly which has kept food on the table and have over the years allowed my friend to attend to my friends child in situations where my friend was unable to pay for child care and hence have to be the sole parent in actuality and so arrive late, leave early or not be at work at all. Even with the wage reductions, a director quietly offered to supplement my friends wages back to the original amount from the directors own wages...

 

The information as regards judges is exactly what I required, thank you

 

No lodger is possible.

 

For all the help that is said to be out there my friend is in battles with the tax office and has discovered how hopeless the agency in charge of maintenance pursuit is (coupled with the deviousness and art of evasion by the other person who should have been providing for their child).

 

Article 8 would not apply, even at a stretch.

 

I am with you completely, I truly wish and hope these matters can be sorted for my friend, as has been exampled by all the help given and offered by so many people on discovering the depth of my friends situation, my friend really is good people (as is true no doubt of millions, if not billions of others on the planet).

Edited February 7, 2014 by IamPhil

[IamPhil]

"as your friend can not pay the arrears and can not pay the full contractual payments, perhaps a re-mortgage would be possible? this would give your friend the opportunity of clearing all secured debts and also have a longer time frame of 25 years rather than 12"

 

That is EXACTLY what I have been attempting to do

 

When my friend asked about re-mortgaging in early 2013 (that is the correct date ) they were told that the failed/late payment in Nov 2012 negated that possibility!

 

The spreadsheets I detailed just above illustrate exactly that, payment of those secured debts. I was able to get the exact re-payment amounts as regards my friends actual account for mortgage extensions for 5/10/15 and 20 years.

 

Even without getting a new job that reflected my friends skill set, with extension at 20 and 15 years the secure debts (and more) are easily addressed. The 10 year extension is at the border line where the slightest hiccup would result in a failed payment where my friend would be on skeleton expenditure, maximum payout of debt and have no way to cover a hiccup.

Edited February 7, 2014 by IamPhil

[IamPhil]

Veganite, ps *tips hat to your considerable knowledge, advice and help

[Lea_HTH]

Lea, I have of course tried to make sure all was clear for the best possible advice.

 

Since June 2014 should read 'Since June 2013'. A simple query as regards anything that was unclear, or was probably an error would suffice.

 

I do no claim to be perfect, in action or word. I kept the lines simple and tried to be chronological in detailing events.

 

I submitted those details for help as regards a financial situation, not typo errors.

 

I am sorry you cannot be bothered going through my lengthy post. I appreciate your thoughts and views thus far, as all advice is much appreciated, in whatever form and with whichever attitude it is given in this regard because, for me, it is all about helping my friend.

 

So you really think I have time to trawl through lots of extraneous information?

 

There are SO many ungrateful people on forums - they post inaccurate information and expect accurate guidance. Then whinge when they are told.

 

Some of the further 'advice' given is wrong. I don't have time to correct it.

[veganite]

Some of the further 'advice' given is wrong. I don't have time to correct it.

 

hello,

when you have some spare time, to help others reading this thread learn, can you please explain what advice is wrong and why?

[Conniff]

ECHR - we really could do with a jokes section.

[veganite]

ECHR - we really could do with a jokes section.

why and why?

[IamPhil]

'So you really think I have time to trawl through lots of extraneous information?

 

There are SO many ungrateful people on forums - they post inaccurate information and expect accurate guidance. Then whinge when they are told.

 

Some of the further 'advice' given is wrong. I don't have time to correct it.'

 

I am grateful of all advice, as I said, yours included, give, told, I do not mind which. Advice, particularly advice that helps is beyond all good.

 

I have read and re-read this thread where I have put out an SOS to try and help a friend. I do not ask lightly or request it be pointed out where I have been unclear, or made mistakes. I am just looking to help my friend. For reasons I can not quite see the thread has gone off tangent.

 

Again, your time is, was and has been appreciated.

 

You asked me questions, for example why the mortgage could not be paid. I gave a full clear 'explanation' as why. After I was informed not to put anything unless asked, I did.

 

I again apologise for my mistakes, for any errors in date or not being clear as regards my friend having a 17 year old child. Those are my errors. I stand up and take full responsibility for them.

 

...

 

No, I do not expect you or indeed anyone to trawl thorough lots of extraneous information. Not knowing what you or your ilk know, I do not know what is extraneous and what is not.

 

I do not 'expect' anyone to do anything. I am wholly appreciative of any advice given.

 

I am sorry I do not know or understand you reference to whinging as regards this thread and what I have asked and said, or indeed anything anyone else has said.

 

I will repeat again, I am grateful of all advice. Of course I would appreciate it if anyone saw any post of information/advice that they knew to be incorrect (in ANY thread), pointed it out, clarified what was wrong with the information/advice and then gave what was in fact the correct information/advice. I am sure anyone on this site would appreciate that.

Edited February 10, 2014 by IamPhil