Parking sign changed while I was parking in the residents bay.

[Belloq]

Hi,

 

I'm new in this so I would really appreciate some expert advices.

So my car was parking in the residents bay as usual where I have valid parking permit.

But meantime when my car was there they changed the parking signs on the road.

I don't know when because I didn't check the signs and I didn't get any notice about it.

This is the new one:

 

Permit holders 10am-4pm

8.30am-6.30pm Pay at machine

(That basically means I have to pay if I want to park in that part of the zone even if I have permit.)

They don't have picture of the car but I already appeal so basically I admited that my car was there.

What can I do now? Do I have a chance if I formally challenge it?

[Jamberson]

Yes, you have a chance. It depends what you said in your appeal, but the council should be able to check and verify when the signs were changed.

[green_and_mean]

If that is actually what it says on the sign its also wrong it should say:

 

8.30am-10.00am

Pay at machine

Display ticket

 

10.00am-4.00pm

Permit holders

or

Pay at machine

Display ticket

 

4.00pm-6.30pm

Pay at machine

Display ticket

[Belloq]

Unfortunately I don't know when they changed it.

Anyway they already reject my first appeal.

This is the new sign.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48169[/ATTACH]

[Jamberson]

What did you say in your appeal?

[green_and_mean]

Unfortunately I don't know when they changed it.

Anyway they already reject my first appeal.

This is the new sign.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48169[/ATTACH]

 

Sign is rubbish, its two different restrictions at the same time it doesn't make sense, it should be similar to this.

 

[Belloq]

Jamberson

Like I said I did not see the sign so first I told them the parking officer made a mistake because I have permit.

They reject my appeal because of the new sign.

Then I wrote them again that I did not see the sign because my car was continuously kept on the road and I did not know about the changes.

I haven't got answer yet. But I think they won't answer.

 

green_and_mean

Thank you! That's my opinion too. (I think the only reason they changed the signs to chase away the residents from that part of the street.)

The sign is deceptive because (almost) the same like "the permit holders ONLY"signs.

[Jamberson]

I imagine that's why your appeal failed then. "I didn't see the sign" doesn't communicate to them that your car was parked before the sign changed. That's what you needed to tell them.

 

Anyway, if the sign is non-compliant, that's a better line of appeal to take forward.

[Belloq]

Yes, I did that but they already rejected it because they said there was a notice (there wasn't) on the road and it was in the local newspaper.

 

How do you know it that a sign is non-compliant or not?

[Jamberson]

You compare it to the Dept. for Transport signs and lines specification.

 

G&M has posted a picture of a correct sign above. The one on the street is different - it doesn't have the word "or" - it gives two different sets of instructions at the same time - permit holders and pay and display. It doesn't say one or the other, it says both at once, and that is wrong.

 

I think if you re-appeal on that basis, you would win.

[Belloq]

I'm not sure that I could win. I will see.

Thank you for the help!

[green_and_mean]

I would also check the traffic order to ensure it matches the sign, I personally would challenge it all the way if you didn't have a good chance of winning I would tell you.

[Belloq]

I know you are right. I just doubt they will give a damn for it.

Here is the same case in the same town.

yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/topstories/10681833._Confusing__sign_blamed_for_couple_s_five_parking_tickets_in_a_week/

The article does not mention that they won or not but I think not.

From the article:

"If a resident believes a sign is misleading we will investigate, but all requests to amend signs must go to the Department for Transport and unfortunately that department are currently not accepting changes.”

[green_and_mean]

What is the actual location (street name?)

[Belloq]

Hardy road

[green_and_mean]

I assume its the bit by the fire gate that has just had the road works done?

[green_and_mean]

TMO (traffic order) was changed in October so thats not worth exploring, but I would go all the way to PATAS on the sign issue Merton have lost plently of cases on poor signage.

[Belloq]

Ok, thanks!