According to FSA- no need to produce the deed of assignment

[nathal]

I have recently been in contact with trading standards and they have told me that a company do not have to produce the deed of assignment.

 

Views

[nathal]

There is no provision within the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that states that

you are legally entitled to a copy of this. -Response from FSA about deed of assignment

[gizmo111]

I have recently been in contact with trading standards and they have told me that a company do not have to produce the deed of assignment.

 

Views

 

I was told by a credit co that they do not have to produce signed copy of agreement to comply with CCA request just a copy of what their terms and conditions are - however they conceded that as they cannot produce a signed copy they are aware that they cannot enforce the debt and have therfore written it off - don't know if this is similar situation.

Check out Elsinore v aktiv capital where TS were involved with her case against them

[simonjohn]

There is no provision within the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that states that

you are legally entitled to a copy of this. -Response from FSA about deed of assignment

 

Although a Deed of Assignment is not covered by the consumer credit act, It, is covered by the Law of Property Act.

 

When a creditor sells a debt to a DCA it must be done properly in the form of a Deed and have at least the minimum information of:

 

1) name of original creditor

 

2) new owner

 

3) Amount of original debt & Amount sold for

 

4) Date of sale

 

5) signed by original creditor and signed by new owner.

 

If the new owner wants to collect the debt through a county court claim, then they would have to provide this Deed of Assignment to the court to prove that they own the debt.

 

They are also obliged to provide this info to the debtor as part of any pre-action protocols, albeit they would blank out the sale price.

[noomill060]

"I was told by a credit co that they do not have to produce signed copy of agreement to comply with CCA request just a copy of what their terms and conditions are - however they conceded that as they cannot produce a signed copy they are aware that they cannot enforce the debt and have therfore written it off "

 

If they believed they didnt have any obligation to produce a signed copy under the CCA 1974, why do you think they wrote it off?

 

Answer: They knew they had been royally stuffed.

[gizmo111]

"I was told by a credit co that they do not have to produce signed copy of agreement to comply with CCA request just a copy of what their terms and conditions are - however they conceded that as they cannot produce a signed copy they are aware that they cannot enforce the debt and have therfore written it off "

 

If they believed they didnt have any obligation to produce a signed copy under the CCA 1974, why do you think they wrote it off?

 

Answer: They knew they had been royally stuffed.

 

Yes - but this is what TS told elsinore as well.

[JonCris]

I have recently been in contact with trading standards and they have told me that a company do not have to produce the deed of assignment.

 

Views

 

It is my experience that what any member of staff of TS should be taken with not a little pinch of salt.

 

As I recall recently we even had 1 from 'Consumer Direct' telling a member of this forum who complained about a DCA "that as this was the way these companies operate" & there was nothing that could be done.

 

They have to prove they have a right to pursue the debtor & although they will try as few debtors even know they are required, without a deed of assignment they can't.

[noomill060]

Many years ago, I had a friend called Norman who spoke nothing but carp.

 

Norman is now diseased -diseade- deceased-dead as a door nail.

 

Occasionally he came up with something that was hilarious in its surreal numptitude.

 

The standard response to one of Norman's proclamations was " sounds like bullsh!t to me, Norman"

 

(we even had baseball caps and T shirts made with this printed on them)

 

I suspect that one of Norman's many offspring from his attempts to pass on his DNA via the National Health's IVF programme has evolved into a TS trainee.

[JonCris]

Yes but training for what?

[nathal]

i have read through the Law of Property Act 1925 and its associated amending legislation and cannot find anything within the legislation that entitles a debtor to a copy of the deed of assignment. If you are aware of such a provision, I would be grateful if you could let me know.

I have no doubt that a DCA would need to present evidence to a court that they have legal title to a debt, but as far as i am aware, they do not have to present similar evidence to the debtor.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows a debtor to request a copy of any agreement, if a creditor cannot produce this then they cannot attempt to recover the debt.

 

If you do not receive your copy by Monday then I will take the necessary action against ***.

 

I would be grateful if you could contact me on Monday to let me know if you have received this.

 

Regards,

 

 

Above, is the reply from fsa after i sent this response:

Although a Deed of Assignment is not covered by the consumer credit act, It, is covered by the Law of Property Act.

 

When a creditor sells a debt to a DCA it must be done properly in the form of a Deed and have at least the minimum information of:

 

1) name of original creditor

 

2) new owner

 

3) Amount of original debt & Amount sold for

 

4) Date of sale

 

5) signed by original creditor and signed by new owner.

 

If the new owner wants to collect the debt through a county court claim, then they would have to provide this Deed of Assignment to the court to prove that they own the debt.

 

[noomill060]

"I have recently been in contact with trading standards and they have told me that a company do not have to produce the deed of assignment."

 

Sounds like bullsh!t to me, Norman!

[nathal]

I have received from AK(DCA) what they (i can only presume) think will comply with my request , a document stating they own debt.

 

In their own headed paer

 

Formal Notice Of Assignment Of Above Debt

 

By an agreement between *** and AK first investment ltd the above debt has now been legally assigned to AK(uk)

 

we are acting as collection agent of the new legal owner of your account which is AK first investment

 

so in effect ak(uk) who told me owned it, dont own it

ak first investment ltd own it

 

prob part of the same company, but ak(uk) who are collecting the money off me dont own it

 

anyway this document isnt a deed of assignment as it doesnt even say what date transferred and its only signed by ak(uk)

 

so in effect they have no agreement with me to record info at cra's

payment must be forwarded

[nathal]

Response from fsa

 

Sections 140A, 140B and 140C of the CCA 2006 deals with 'Unfair relationships' between creditors and debtors. These amendments do not come into force until April 2007. The section you have quoted does not state that a debtor has a right to a copy of a deed of assignment. All this section does, is state that a debt collection agency can be classified as a creditor within the context of unfair relationships

[SaudiMail]

Hi,

 

Don't know if anyone can help, RBS closed my account in 1999. I sent a Data Protection Letter with my account numbers but they have written back stating they have no record of the account. I intended to apply to have the statute of limitations overturned to claim back the charges, but if they are saying they have no record of the account I don't know where to go from here.

 

To further complicate things, they passed the (overdraft) debt on to a company called BTMK. They reduced the amount originally demanded and I was paying them £50 month for years (repaid £1,118.91 in total). Anyway stopped paying them in April when this OFT announcement came out. BTMK started sending the nasty letters and I wrote asking for the deed of assignment, (11th August 2006). They wrote to me stating they had wrote off the remaining £500 which they said was outstanding and my case was now closed. They returned my £1 postal order. They then phoned me and said that I acknowledged the debt by agreeing to repay the reduced amount and if I pursued the matter they would make me repay the £500 they have written off. I have still not received the deed of assignment and want to know if I can take action to recover the £1,118.91 I have paid to them. Also I want to know if I can use BTMK to get RBS to acknowledge the existance of my account.

 

Would really appreciate any advice on this one.

[nathal]

any record on your credit file

[SaudiMail]

No, there is nothing on my credit file relating to this debt with RBS.

 

I've got my diaries from years ago and all my account numbers are in them and I know I've given them the right details. I contacted my old branch in the first instance. Just think they are using 'tactics'.

[nathal]

494. Section 211(2)(e) enables the order to specify as within the definition of a domestic infringement things done or omitted to be done where an enactment creates a sanction of unenforceability. An example is the Consumer Credit Act 1974. A large number of 'requirements' of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 have as their sanction the unenforceability (against the debtor or hirer) of the consumer credit agreement or of the security of the agreement, or of rights under them. An example is requirements in relation to the form, content and signature of agreements in sections 60 and 61, and the duty to supply copies of the agreement and notice of the right to cancel in sections 62 to 64. In these cases, the court can allow the agreement to be enforced except in cases set out in sections 127(3) and (4) (e.g. unsigned agreements or where notice of the right to cancel is not given as required).

 

 

 

this might be worth reading in relation cca request

[Richard Spud]

Regards to All

[PriorityOne]

When a Deed of Assignment is drawn up by the original creditor, does it have the account number(s) that the debt relates to on it... or just the amount outstanding ? Does anyone know ?

[Richard Spud]

Regards to All

[Richard Spud]

Regards to All

[rich2568]

When a Deed of Assignment is drawn up by the original creditor, does it have the account number(s) that the debt relates to on it... or just the amount outstanding ? Does anyone know ?

 

 

It requires all information relating to the transfer of the debt. How can they legally state they own the debt, if an item such as account number of the debtor isn`t even detailed within the document?

[PriorityOne]

It requires all information relating to the transfer of the debt. How can they legally state they own the debt, if an item such as account number of the debtor isn`t even detailed within the document?

 

Thanks for that Rich.... if that's the case, then the lovely lads at Moorcroft have stuffed up. Just waiting on the SAR stuff at the moment....

[thinksmart]

Hi,

 

Don't know if anyone can help, RBS closed my account in 1999. I sent a Data Protection Letter with my account numbers but they have written back stating they have no record of the account. I intended to apply to have the statute of limitations overturned to claim back the charges, but if they are saying they have no record of the account I don't know where to go from here.

 

To further complicate things, they passed the (overdraft) debt on to a company called BTMK. They reduced the amount originally demanded and I was paying them £50 month for years (repaid £1,118.91 in total). Anyway stopped paying them in April when this OFT announcement came out. BTMK started sending the nasty letters and I wrote asking for the deed of assignment, (11th August 2006). They wrote to me stating they had wrote off the remaining £500 which they said was outstanding and my case was now closed. They returned my £1 postal order. They then phoned me and said that I acknowledged the debt by agreeing to repay the reduced amount and if I pursued the matter they would make me repay the £500 they have written off. I have still not received the deed of assignment and want to know if I can take action to recover the £1,118.91 I have paid to them. Also I want to know if I can use BTMK to get RBS to acknowledge the existance of my account.

 

Would really appreciate any advice on this one.

 

If one request for a deed of assignment made them write off the outstanding balance and threaten you if you pursued the matter it sounds like they are panicking. Its a gamble of £500 against the £1118 you stand to win. If they really don't have a deed of assignment I would imagine you might have a good chance but I can offer no legal perspective on this. It would be good sport to give it a pop though - if they've been taking your payments fraudulently they will have more then just £1118 at stake - I would imagine their credit licence could be at risk and if the OC have genuinely erased all details (how likely is that really I wonder) they won't be able to back up BTMK's claims. Boils down to; is it worth the stress for you to pursue, and is it worth the risk for them to try to defend it if you do. Have fun

[thinksmart]

Hi all, I've not checked out the site for some time and the 2 threads I had been contributing to seem to have fizzled out in the meantime. I'm currently being harrassed and am keen to see if anywhere on the forums has come to any conclusive views on some of the old favourite chestnuts like :-

 

1. Is there any right to se an alleged DEED of assigment (albeit with sale price blanked out)?

 

2. Is a NOTICE of assignment valid if its...

a) only a representation

b) not dated

c) not on genuine OC letterheaded paper

 

3. Does an original credit agreement have to be produced (i.e. the ORIGINAL), or is a blurry, illegible, photocopy of a faxed or microfished document good enough for the Court?

 

4. Does the credit agreement produced for the Court need to be intact enough to include its full terms of conditions and interest rates etc? Or would supplying representative T&Cs be acceptable to the Court?

 

I'm sorry I know all these things have been discussed and opined on at length in multiple threads but I think I'd lose the will to live (its already waining fast) if I trawled through every thread to try to get to the current thinking. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I know there are lots of opinions on this but I'm really looking more for examples from actual Court experiences where evidence was either accepted or thrown out on the basis of the above examples? Anyone got that far?

 

Any help would be most appreciated (might even get a decent's night sleep for once!)

 

Thinksmart