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brian f

Dubai debt collection through the UK

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I am having real problems with this and have paid money for legal advice as I have been served with a demand for a debt over 6 years old.

 

THey are chasing me for over 70k (which is mostly accrued compound interest) without telling me how this amount is calculated, I did leave in a hurry due to personal issues although I had a good job.

 

Problem is no-one seems to have definitive answers.

 

Any debt in the UK over 6 years old which has not been chased is not "live" but the leeches who are acting for the bank in Dubai are stating UAE 15 year law.

 

No mitigation has been done to their risk,

I only have sight of 2 documents,

in Arabic,

no interest rates declared,

no communication with bank or other agencies for over 6 years although my UK address was well know to all parties.

 

Has anyone been in this position,

I am at risk of losing everything to satisfy what was initially a small debt which I assumed (wrongly it seems) had been written off.

 

Any advice or info greatly appreciated

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Suggest that you read this thread linked below, which should answer your questions.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?385979-Dubai-Debt-through-UK-Courts


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Brian, there are a couple issues to consider:

 

1) Do the English courts have jurisdiction? You would need to see what the loan agreement says about this. If there is a clause saying UAE courts have exclusive jurisdiction it will be difficult for them to sue you in the UK, if there is a clause saying the bank can sue you wherever you are living from time to time then it will be easier for them. I guess you don't know if its all in Arabic.

 

2) Does the 6year English limitation period or (I think) 15 year UAE limitation period apply? Generally speaking it will be the UAE limitation period (see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/16). There is an exception to this under section 2(2) where using the foreign limitation period conflict with public policy to the extent that its application would cause undue hardship to a person who is, or might be made, a party to the action or proceedings. I had a quick look but there seems to be very few cases on this, so it is not entirely clear to me what would count as hardship.

 

No clear answers to be had I'm afraid ... perhaps ask for a breakdown of the 70k.


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I am in a similar positionwangdoodle as just received a letter from coyle white devine due to leaving dubai suddenly have you an update

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Sometimes people who post to CAG, do not come back to visit the site to update. This is because new posts to a thread do not automically trigger an email to be sent to the starter of the thread.

 

In your position, it may be worthwhile speaking to National Debtline or Stepchange about the correspondence you have received, to see what advice they can provide. I suspect that they have staff with knowledge of foreign debt enforcement in the UK.


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Thanks for the advice i have emailed the national debtline will look into stepchange before contacting my solicitor for advice

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we received a county court summons instigated by CWD on behalf of Emirates bank and the paperwork included a copy of this supposed Tre aty between Uk and UAE

 

Apparently Instruments of ratification have not been exchanged .....................does this mean it is not binding?

 

Surely there has to be a court case in UAE before it can be raised here and also shouldn't CWD contact us prior to going to court to give us chance to do something about it.

 

What is also strange is that the county court summons was receive today 11th Jan with service dated stamped on it of 14th Jan.......................it was not recorded mail so how do they know if we received it or not and therefore what are the implications

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Hague convention on foreign judgments in civil and commercial matters does not apply to in any country in the world. There are only 6 countries who recognize judgement of other countries.

 

If you google the hague convemtion website you can find it.

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But there are agreements between countries that enables a court in one country to consider enforcement of anothers countries court judgement. There is an EU wide agreement covering debt enforcement across the EU.


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I understand about what are you talking about.

There are two convention Brussels and Laguna convention which apply to EU countries and not on whole world.

 

My point was that you mentioned in your post that Hague convention covers the whole world but my point is that the Hague convention applies only six countries not on whole world.

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I don't think I have mentioned the Hague convention, as I don't know much about it.

The only person who mentioned Hague convention on this thread is Rodney York, which I did not respond to.

I try not to respond to something mentioned, unless I have read up about it and have some understanding.

 

I would always stress the point to people that if they are subject to any debt enforcement actions, they should obtain formal legal advice.

Forums and internet sources are useful to gain an understanding, but should not be totally relied on.


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Can you please advise how you have faired against your court notice? I have received one recently and I am currently trying to find a solicitor to help sort this.

Did the court award to the bank?

 

we received a county court summons instigated by CWD on behalf of Emirates bank and the paperwork included a copy of this supposed Tre aty between Uk and UAE

 

Apparently Instruments of ratification have not been exchanged .....................does this mean it is not binding?

 

Surely there has to be a court case in UAE before it can be raised here and also shouldn't CWD contact us prior to going to court to give us chance to do something about it.

 

What is also strange is that the county court summons was receive today 11th Jan with service dated stamped on it of 14th Jan.......................it was not recorded mail so how do they know if we received it or not and therefore what are the implications

 

Sorry to jump on the thread, you all seem further along the process and I'd be very grateful for any advice.

 

I received the first letter from these solicitors today. The debt was 8000 AED but I'm being pursued for 170,000AED.

 

I own (mortgaged) my home and dare say the solicitors think I have equity, which sadly is not the case.

 

Does anyone have any advice? I don't have 170,000 AED. I'm not sure what solicitors cost (if anyone can give a ball park figure I'd be grateful). How far have these solicitors taken matters? It seems they've issued SD's but no further. Is that the case?

 

If so, is the general opinion that these guys are scaremongering and only throwing minimum resources behind their attempts to collect?

 

 

I have been quoted £200 per hour

 

I was quoted around the same by a few different solicitors but none who'd ever won a case like this before. Still looking for a solicitor with actual experience of a similar case, if you find one please post their details.

 

Mine hasn't gone to court, but I've weighed up the pros and cons and I'm considering negotiating a settlement. A solicitor told me that this might be the cheapest solution. He advised to make an offer for 10% of the debt to kick things off.

 

How did you avoid going to court if they had sent you a summons back in January? I received mine last week. I have 14 day to acknowledge service which will buy me another 14 days.

 

I would like to negotiate however I have read on other forums that they won't listen to other offers.

 

Will be speaking to another solicitor on Monday.

 

How did you avoid going to court if they had sent you a summons back in January? I received mine last week. I have 14 day to acknowledge service which will buy me another 14 days.

 

I would like to negotiate however I have read on other forums that they won't listen to other offers.

 

Will be speaking to another solicitor on Monday.

 

 

 

Apologies I have just realised that I have mixed you up with someone else.

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Hi All,

 

 

Any updates on any of these cases I am now being chased by Balkish for debt that is 12 years old and with interest is approx. x10 of the original debt

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Hi ..i am in the same position ..i received the same letter from the same company ..the debt is from 2000..does the statute barred 1980 act apply ..if any one can help me please ..or is in the same position ?

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I am new to this site. In basic, have a ccj against me for UAE dept, have send in paperwork to have it set aside.

 

Anyone know how this has got a ccj as I thought dept in the UAE stayed in the UAE, also anyone know a lawyer that will take this on for me.

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I left Dubai in October 2007 with an outstanding loan and credit card.

 

 

I was contacted by the bank April 2009 and after completing a personal budget plan and negotiating backwards and forwards, over a couple of months, the bank never came back to me to accept or decline my offer of repayments.

 

 

I have recently received a solicitors letter threatening CCJ or Bankruptcy.

I do not own any properties or have interest in any belongings (car, etc) and again am willing to pay back the debt based on my personal budget plan.

 

 

Given that I defaulted in 2007 would it be reasonable to refer to the Statute of Limitations, as I argue that I could have been paying this back now had they responded to my offers?

 

 

Also the debt they are advising has heavily increased from the original sum owed.

Moreover on top of the solicitors letter I have received an email on an old account from a Sri Lankan debt recovery agency regarding the same debt which is dated within a day of the solicitors letter (Coyle White Devine) I look forward to receiving your advice.

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Hi guys,

 

I had to register and reply to this thread.

 

Please be informed there is no legal way that a debt from a Middle Eastern country can recoup its money (There is no Hague convention signed nor finance agreements in place).

 

Before obviously replying here.... I sort advice from friends of mine that work for 3 main magic circle solicitors in London.

 

Please be careful when replying to these Letters. there purely scare tactics to make you think that you need to pay.

 

No County court nor Credit Reference agency would register such a case against foreign debt (You can call Experian, Equifax and Call Credit for reference)

 

The only thing I would say is that Some countries like the Philippines, Pakistan, India (Don't travel here if you have UAE Debt) have bilateral finance law agreements with the UAE and Saudi to detain you and extradite you back to face trial (Many citizens of these countries do the same hence why a law is in place)..

 

In any case a lot of Expats change there passports when running away the UAE has no legal right to request new Identity documents from the UK Government

 

I hope I have been helpful..

 

Mac

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Hi all,lots of interesting comments and debate - Can anyone/everyone post updates on their circumstances good and bad plus give info to other readers?thanks

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Hi guys,

 

I had to register and reply to this thread.

 

Please be informed there is no legal way that a debt from a Middle Eastern country can recoup its money (There is no Hague convention signed nor finance agreements in place).

 

Before obviously replying here.... I sort advice from friends of mine that work for 3 main magic circle solicitors in London.

 

Please be careful when replying to these Letters. there purely scare tactics to make you think that you need to pay.

 

No County court nor Credit Reference agency would register such a case against foreign debt (You can call Experian, Equifax and Call Credit for reference)

 

The only thing I would say is that Some countries like the Philippines, Pakistan, India (Don't travel here if you have UAE Debt) have bilateral finance law agreements with the UAE and Saudi to detain you and extradite you back to face trial (Many citizens of these countries do the same hence why a law is in place)..

 

In any case a lot of Expats change there passports when running away the UAE has no legal right to request new Identity documents from the UK Government

 

I hope I have been helpful..

 

Mac

 

Hi, seeing recent posts what are your views?....I agree with you to be honest but there are other people on here posting differing outcomes...

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Hi All, I received a demand for over UAED 250,000 today from CWD.

Am absolutely devastated.

 

 

The only loan I had with the banks in the UAE was paid in full many years prior to departure.

 

 

Having seen some of the threads on this topic.

I'm a little shocked at the lengths CWD are prepared to go to!

 

 

It sounds like my nightmare has just begun.

 

 

One forum user mentioned he had been fighting CWD for three years.

I'll be watching this thread closely.

Any help or advice much appreciated. Thanks. M

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If this is the case you should write back stating that you believe a mistake has been made, as all accounts in the UAE were settled back in x year.

 

 

Ask them to investigate this with the original creditors and to get the original creditors to provide full account.

 

Send the letter by recorded delivery.


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I think the best way to fight these guys is for individuals to mount a proper Defence to these claims when they are sued.

 

 

Most of CWD's victories come from default judgments.

If cases are properly defended it will be much more difficult for CWD to operate as they will get less judgments and the cost of CWD pursuing each person will be much greater.

 

People need to ask for help when they receive a claim form and make sure they meet the court deadlines.

Help is available by creating a thread on CAG if employing a solicitor is not an option.

 

Do remember that CWD will have ample opportunity to read and digest Defences and witness statements before any court hearing.

 

 

In fact most court filings are matters of public record obtainable by anyone.

You can't really ambush them so don't be afraid of having an open discussion on forum.

 

The UK legal system does not really have any concept of collective action or class action.

It would be nigh on impossible for individual defendants to have their claims lumped together.

You can lump together to pay for a legal opinion but that won't be binding on anybody and individuals will still be responsible for running their own cases.

 

There have been many different causes on CAG where people have tried to set up groups to take on banks, insurers and so on.

It is an admirable idea but to be honest it rarely works.

 

 

The reason is that people are happy to join a facebook page but are less happy to dig into their pockets.

The other reason is that court cases run to rigid timetables which do not really allow for a communal response, meaning that individuals have to take ownership of their own cases.


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The belief that mass action via a facebook page will exterminate Mr Coyle is deeply misguided, especially if the only factors members have in common are having worked in UAE and being chased by a single unscrupulous vulture.

 

Moreover, wrong though it is to paint any sector of society in tribal colours, my impression of those that go out to the Gulf in search of gold is of an "each to their own" mentality in which any fausse camaraderie would evaporate like morning dew.

 

I for one would prefer to tackle a claim against me as any English one. It is highly improbable that the creditors would, if put to strict proof, have the documentation needed to satisfy a court of the existence of a valid agreement, a debt and a liability.

 

You don't need to spend long in a Middle East bank to wonder whether they are capable of keeping proper records at all.

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 377 days.

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