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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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ATOS appeals: GP's charging £130


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No don't think they meant that

 

hippo, from the ancient Greek for "river horse"

 

So GP/Doctor/Nurses all pledge to save us via an oath to the river horse - no pigs mentioned at all tbf.

 

Oh, alright. The Rhinocratic Oath, then. Jeez, this a tough crowd.

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The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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You have my sympathy. Sorry to sidetrack the thread. In cases like yours it should be obvious to the powers that be, that you should be on ESA (not that I know what that is). The point I was making is that there are different degrees of disability, and the system should be more flexible. For some milder cases, I dont think its unreasonable to expect ESA claimants to do some "permitted work", so long as people aren't being forced into something they are clearly unfit to do (The idiots at your tribunal clearly can't be trusted to make such decissions)

 

And getting back on track:

 

Yes, I agree, that in the same way a Doctor can't charge for a sickness certificate, there should be no charge to the patient for supplying evidence to the DWP (but to keep the Doctor happy perhaps they should be allowed to send an invoice to the DWP for their time).

 

Thank you very much! In fairness i didn't explain it for sympathy (although that is most welcome!) but to illustrate that Employment and Support Allowance (ESA or the new word for Long term Incapacity) isn't an easy benefit to get on and remain on.

There are as you rightly say many different degrees of disability and if the govt are to be believed, this is what the new Personal Independence Payment (PIP) will address. However, having seen the total incompetence shown by ATOS in assessing people for ESA i can see people with no legs being told they should work as a "walking bus" for school children! Maybe that's a little extreme but you get the point?

Permitted Work (as i understand it) is work a claimant can do with a view to easing themselves back into full time employment and they can earn up to (i think) £96/week without effecting their benefits. For many disabled/ill people, this isn't a viable option though. If my understanding of Permitted Work is wrong, hopefully someone will be along soon to correct it and/or add something to the definition.

 

Back on the topic again though, i think you've hit upon a workable solution. Why should the claimant have to foot the bill to prove they are unfit for work when because of that, they are already on reduced funds? I suspect many will retract their claim because they simply can't afford to continue with it although they can't (from a health point of view) afford to do that either!

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Oh, alright. The Rhinocratic Oath, then. Jeez, this a tough crowd.

 

FYI Jeez is short for Jesus & as such is viewed as blasphemy by many followers of the bible. And as our nation is still supposedly signed up to 'church of England' & Latin etc. How come this language is decided by you to be acceptable & following house rules?

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FYI Jeez is short for Jesus & as such is viewed as blasphemy by many followers of the bible. And as our nation is still supposedly signed up to 'church of England' & Latin etc. How come this language is decided by you to be acceptable & following house rules?

 

I know what "Jeez" is short for, thank you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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I know what "Jeez" is short for, thank you.

 

Oh I see, so you meant to offend Christians/Catholics. I hope no one else is on your list. :|

 

Since ATOS would pass a corpse as fit for work, the house of Lords is probably full of dead or incoherent peers found fit for work by ATOS. If found fit for work have you considered working for government, I hear they have some lovely jobs going in the field of dehumanizing people just for existing.

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Speaking as a Catholic, all I can say is............ Jeez what a palaver.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Oh I see, so you meant to offend Christians/Catholics. I hope no one else is on your list. :|

 

Since ATOS would pass a corpse as fit for work, the house of Lords is probably full of dead or incoherent peers found fit for work by ATOS. If found fit for work have you considered working for government, I hear they have some lovely jobs going in the field of dehumanizing people just for existing.

 

every time i've asked them for a job they've replied "Computer says no!"

 

Spot on with the House of Layabouts - err, Lords even!

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every time i've asked them for a job they've replied "Computer says no!"

 

Spot on with the House of Layabouts - err, Lords even!

 

 

I bet they'd say no. You seem like an intelligent person, they don't want any of those around- you could notice what was going on.

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I bet they'd say no. You seem like an intelligent person, they don't want any of those around- you could notice what was going on.

 

Why, thank you honey! :oops:

 

Joking aside, never looked at it that way before but it makes a lot of sense, there seems to be some kind of limit on the IQ of all the people i've ever spoken to by any means (phone, face to face etc) in my dealings with the Benefit Agency in it's various guises.

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Speaking as a Catholic, all I can say is............ Jeez what a palaver.

 

Anyone can claim to be Catholic just as anyone can claim to be Muslim- but unless you follow the actual teachings you are just branding yourself. According to old teaching it's disrespectful to use the Lord or his Sons name in vain, many devout Christians/Catholics can get quite upset if those around do.

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Anyone can claim to be Catholic just as anyone can claim to be Muslim- but unless you follow the actual teachings you are just branding yourself. According to old teaching it's disrespectful to use the Lord or his Sons name in vain, many devout Christians/Catholics can get quite upset if those around do.

 

Cut it out. Right now. This is not a request.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Why, thank you honey! :oops:

 

Joking aside, never looked at it that way before but it makes a lot of sense, there seems to be some kind of limit on the IQ of all the people i've ever spoken to by any means (phone, face to face etc) in my dealings with the Benefit Agency in it's various guises.

 

Oh hey, I'm a former ESA processor. I like to think I'm at least a bit intelligent, but more to the point, I'd prefer that we didn't insult DWP staff on here. Some of them show up and offer good advice in their own free time. Would you do that if you got called an idiot for your troubles?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Anyone can claim to be Catholic just as anyone can claim to be Muslim- but unless you follow the actual teachings you are just branding yourself. According to old teaching it's disrespectful to use the Lord or his Sons name in vain, many devout Christians/Catholics can get quite upset if those around do.

 

 

AAAAAaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! NNNnnnnnnnooooooo!!!!!!!

 

PLEASE, not religion! We'll end up with a civil war on our hands!

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AAAAAaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! NNNnnnnnnnooooooo!!!!!!!

 

PLEASE, not religion! We'll end up with a civil war on our hands!

Lol. claire is a top notch first class WUMmeister.

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Oh hey, I'm a former ESA processor. I like to think I'm at least a bit intelligent, but more to the point, I'd prefer if we didn't insult DWP staff on here. Some of them show up and offer good advice in their own free time. Would you do that if you got called an idiot for your troubles?

 

I don't believe they did call you an idiot!

 

And to be honest the impression I also get is that many DWP staff have middle to low IQ, though in some cases maybe they are just so overworked they are driven to illness affecting their work! Having a low IQ is not a crime & those who have low IQ often have other gifts to make up for this. I was assessed as having high IQ (I know it doesn't seem possible), but as you can see I have much less skill when it comes to communicating in a way that doesn't get peoples backs up!

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Oh hey, I'm a former ESA processor. I like to think I'm at least a bit intelligent, but more to the point, I'd prefer that we didn't insult DWP staff on here. Some of them show up and offer good advice in their own free time. Would you do that if you got called an idiot for your troubles?

 

Interesting! Very interesting in fact!

 

If you'd care to read what i wrote, i said the people i had spoken to. Now this is obviously a handful of people within a whole organisation and generally the "frontline" staff that take phone calls.

Without invoking any kind of snobbery or suggesting that people who take phone calls aren't fit to do any other work, what i was intimating was that in my experience of the handful of people, there seemd to be a limit on the IQ. This obviously does not extend to those i've not encountered or the few who have displayed more than the average level of intelligence i've come to expect from the people that answer the phones.

Now let's face a fact here - if they were shall we say more gifted in the intellect department then they would presumably be doing a different job to what they are as the powers that be would not want intellectual talent wasted on taking phone calls along the lines of "Where's my f***ing money?" from some oik who has neither the intellectual capacity, ambition or background to be able to do more than that.

Do you see what i'm saying now?

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I don't believe they did call you an idiot!

 

And to be honest the impression I also get is that many DWP staff have middle to low IQ, though in some cases maybe they are just so overworked they are driven to illness affecting their work! Having a low IQ is not a crime & those who have low IQ often have other gifts to make up for this. I was assessed as having high IQ (I know it doesn't seem possible), but as you can see I have much less skill when it comes to communicating in a way that doesn't get peoples backs up!

 

I know exactly how you feel! Friend request sent by the way!

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In nearly five years of dealing with the DWP, I'm yet to come across one that isn't polite, intelligent and very helpful*. Guess I'm just lucky!

*touches wood.

 

Having moved into a different area to be able to live in a bungalow instead of a house, i encountered about 3 different Jobcentre+ offices and their staff in a very short space of time.

I can honestly say that most staff were polite, helpful and reasonably intelligent for the positions in which they were employed. However, i did encounter some that were unintentionally rude and their intellect wasn't comensurate with their position but unintentional rudeness is forgiveable as it means they could easily improve that if they maybe had more time and a less heavy workload.

On the other side of the coin, i've come across some who are just plain rude and seem to take some kind of Machiavellian joy in being rude and unhelpful. Happily this isn't the norm.

I couldn't quite work out why there were a few people who seemed above average IQ doing menial tasks though..........

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