Threatened with UK Bankruptcy over Dubai Debt from 2009

[Justinh]

Hi Guys,

 

Not sure if anyone is still active on this thread,

 

I received a stat demand for insolvency from a UK solicitors/debt collection agency that seem to think they can make me bankrupt in the UK over debt secured out in Dubai.

 

I have made a very reasonable settlement offer but they say their client NBD will only accept settlement in full.

 

Does anyone know if bankruptcy can be enforce in UK for a debt incurred in Dubai or are they just bluffing me in the hope of securing a bigger settlement from me?

 

Has anyone else been in this position?

[marmaris30]

It's a bluff but a risky one for both you and them.

 

Firstly, check that there is no judgement relating to the matter.

You'd know about a Dubai judgement because they'd probably have stopped you leaving!

 

Assuming not, they would now have to launch a fresh claim against you by way of a Claim Form via the High Court in London.

You could obviously contest such a claim on various grounds, and unless it's for a large amount then it's unlikely they would go to the time and trouble to do that.

 

So their lawyers have most likely launched the Statutory Demand as a cheap scare tactic, hoping that you'll cough up or bin the letter.

 

If you ignore it and they can prove you received it (was it hand-delivered or by recorded post?) then they can choose to apply for your bankruptcy after a certain amount of time and you would have to explain why you ignored the demand, as well as why you dispute the debt, the jurisdiction and so on.

 

In all likelihood, they won't take it to that level, but you can stop them in their tracks by applying for the judgement to be set aside. They would then not be able to launch a new statutory demand in the same matter, and they'd need to launch a new claim to make any further progress.

 

To apply for the set-aside, you need Form 6.4 & 6.5 (available on the web), which you take to your local County Court.

 

Arguments you could make for the SD to be set aside:

- The SD is the first time you have been made aware of any legal action arising over the matter.

- The matter relates to an alleged contract made in a foreign jurisdiction (and you dispute its validity) and you are not aware of any judgement having been made either here or there, so there is no judgement debt.

- It is abusive to serve an SD for an unproven debt over which you have received no previous communication, and for which there is no judgement.

 

You will have to pay a small fee to the Court for filing Form 6.4, which is waived in certain circumstances, and you should definitely plan to attend in person.

 

Obviously it would be inadvisable to go to the UAE ever again in your life!

[unclebulgaria67]

Definitely do the set aside at your nearest county court that handles insolvency.

It is a Dubai debt and therefore I doubt that the SD has been issued properly, as I would think there is a specific process for a UK court to hear a case about a foreign debt.

 

Have you goggled the name of these Solicitor/Debt collectors, to see what you can find out ?

[Justinh]

That's for the info guys.

 

I was going to get the stat demand set aside but they said if it was set aside they would pursue me for a CCJ and they use that to push for bankruptcy

 

Also they have now told me they have cancelled the stat demand because I got in contact with them (which arose my suspicions that its a bluff).

 

Is there anyway to check records to see if it was ever actually issued legally?

 

I am not sure if there is a judgement that's been passed in Dubai as I didn't stick around long enough to find out as I don't want to go to jail out in Dubai.

 

I am looking at relocating to Germany and renting my property in the UK out.

Would living abroad provided me with any protection I. E I can't be pursued out there?

 

The company are a small time solicitors come debt collections agency and there is very little about them on the Internet.

This also arises suspicion that a big bank like NBD would use such a small company.

 

My main concern is that I don't want to lose my house,

I have looked at IVA but I don't fancy giving 50% of bonus every month and my increased salary aboard.

 

Based on the fact my debt level in the UK is very very low and I would only be doing it to protect myself from this Dubai debt.

[unclebulgaria67]

Sounds a bit iffy to me. If they can go for a CCJ, why don't they just do that.

 

I would suggest that you proceed with the SD set aside, as otherwise they could petition for your bankruptcy. Better to make arguments at an SD set aside stage, rather than at a petition stage.

 

It is going to help you anyway doing the set aside, as you will have to look into the processes that need to be followed for a UK court to look at a foreign debt. If you phone National Debtline, they will have staff who can advise you on this. I have seen threads on here, where it has been suggested that it is possible for a Dubai debt to be heard by a UK court, but it is not a straightforward process.

 

If you need advice on the set aside, click on the triangle in your post to alert the site team and they may move this thread to legal issues, where it may be viewed by more people with knowledge of the process.

[BadgerBox]

Hi Justinh,

 

How did you get on with your case?

 

Did you set aside the SD if so how did that work.?

 

 

[Justinh]

No, I never tried to get it set aside.

 

I am still in the process of them taking me to court.

 

I am looking to settle and am negotiating a settlement with them.

I have spoken to several different solicitors and none of them have any idea on how to handle the case and are reluctant to assist.

 

The problem stems from the memorandum of understanding signed in 2013 between the UK and UAE.

 

From what I can gather it is a guideline but a certain solicitors are convincing some courts it's a enforcement agreement as UK judge don't know much about it or UAE Law.

[renegadeimp]

Have you spoken to national debtline? Iirc they have a department that advises on international debt.

[Justinh]

No but I will give them a call.

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

This is an example of why it is important to try the set aside first within the 18 days allowed following receipt of the SD.

They are using the SD as a bullying tactic, so that people then negotiate repayments, under a threat that they will end up being taken through UK courts.

 

Once you start negotiating repayments, they will use that information to take it to court and get the debt registered in the UK.

 

There are major UK firms of Solicitors such as Clifford Chance, Eversheds, Pinsent Masons who can advise people on this.

There is a list of many such firms of Solicitors on the Law Society website.

Your local high street Solicitors probably won't touch it.

 

The UK/Dubai memorandum of understanding has nothing to do with debt collection.

 

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/Pages/mous/international.aspx

[Justinh]

Both those law firms are corporate law firms and won't speak to me.

[unclebulgaria67]

Ah I see, they only help sue debtors and not help them.

Perhaps make an enquiry with the law society to see if they have a list of Solicitors who can help.

[Justinh]

Hi guys,

 

I am in the same position and am in court shortly for my case management conference.

Has anyone else been this far yet ?

Any advise ?

 

I will update you with the outcome.

[Justinh]

If anyone wants to know how I got on PM me. I don't want to publish in public domain in case it causes problems with my case. I am happy to share.

 

 

If we work together we might all beat this!

[DD11]

How do you pm? I am interested. Thanks

[layercake1]

Hi Justin

 

I am very interested also. Please PM me with as much information as you can...

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

I don't think people with less than 20 posts can receive or send PM's.

So Justin may have to post a bit more, before they can deal with PM's.

 

Be careful with PM's.

No disrespect to Justin, but in an anonymous internet forum world, you have to be a bit careful.

It is not unknown for people to tout for business or for opponents to suck people into giving away their identity or case they are making.

 

Always better to keep information in public, with some specific details kept back, so people can learn together and plus others more knowledgeable may be able to correct any wrong information that is being posted.

[layercake1]

Uncle...

I agree.

[Justinh]

Guys, I wanted just trying to share my knowledge in the hope we can help each other and find away to beat this.

 

I am certainly not trying to tout for business I am actually looking for recommendations for a good solicitor as due to certain new circumstances, I think I now have a good chance of winning my case with the right help.

[unclebulgaria67]

Each case is going to be different anyway.

You could post up general details of the debt that is being chased, whether there has already been any court judgements in Dubai and whether the agreement you have with the Dubai based company allows for overseas enforcement.

 

You don't have to mention amounts or what companies are involved or even dates of hearings.

If there have been UK hearings or actions, again you can give general points about what has happened.

 

If you want to use the PM system, you need more posts anyway.

 

As for finding a Solicitor, the Law Society can help with this, but others have tried phoning large law firms and they only represent companies.

 

It would appear most of the lawyers who have the knowledge are employed by large firms, who are suing people who owe debts.

 

Ordinary people are left having to use high street Solicitors who don't have the knowledge or experience.

[layercake1]

Justine

What defence will you use?