Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • that was a good saving on an £8k debt dx
    • Find out how the UK general elections works, how to register to vote, and what to do on voting day.View the full article
    • "We suffer more in imagination than in reality" - really pleased this all happened. Settled by TO, full amount save as to costs and without interest claimed. I consider this a success but feel free to move this thread to wherever it's appropriate. I say it's a success because when I started this journey I was in a position of looking to pay interest on all these accounts, allowing them to default stopped that and so even though I am paying the full amount, it is without a doubt reduced from my position 3 years ago and I feel knowing this outcome was possible, happy to gotten this far, defended myself in person and left with a loan with terms I could only dream of, written into law as interest free! I will make better decisions in the future on other accounts, knowing key stages of this whole process. We had the opportunity to speak in court, Judge (feels like just before a ruling) was clear in such that he 'had all the relevant paperwork to make a judgement'. He wasn't pleased I hadn't settled before Court.. but then stated due to WS and verbal arguments on why I haven't settled, from my WS conclusion as follows: "11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. "  He offered to stand down the case to give us chance to settle and that that was for my benefit specifically - their Sols didn't want to, he asked me whether I wanted to proceed to judgement or be given the opportunity to settle. Naturally, I snapped his hand off and we entered negotiations (took about 45 minutes). He added I should get legal advice for matters such as these. They were unwilling to agree to a TO unless it was full amount claimed, plus costs, plus interest. Which I rejected as I felt that was unfair in light of the circumstances and the judges comments, I then countered with full amount minus all costs and interest over 84 months. They accepted that. I believe the Judge wouldn't have been happy if they didn't accept a payment plan for the full amount, at this late stage. The judge was very impressed by my articulate defence and WS (Thanks CAG!) he respected that I was wiling to engage with the process but commented only I  can know whether this debt is mine, but stated that Civil cases were based on balance of probabilities, not without shadow of a doubt, and all he needs to determine is whether the account existed. Verbal arguments aside; he has enough evidence in paperwork for that. He clarified that a copy of a DN and NOA is sufficient proof based on balance of probabilities that they were served. I still disagree, but hey, I'm just me.. It's definitely not strict proof as basically I have to prove the negative (I didn't receive them/they were not served), which is impossible. Overall, a great result I think! BT  
    • Seeking further advice now. The 33 days in which the defendant has to submit a defence expires at 16:00 tomorrow. The defendant has submitted an acknowledgement of service but looking to get the claim awarded by default in failure to submit the defence. This is MoneyClaim Online and can see an option to request a default judgement but believe that is for failure to acknowledge the claim within 14 days??  So being MoneyClaim Online, how do I request the claim be awarded in my favour?
    • Have to agree with the above Health and safety legislation is specific in that the service provider in so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees and those not in the employ of the business. You claim is like saying you slipped in the swimming pool area while taking a dip. As rightly stated by by the leisure centre, a sports hall has dedicated equipment and you yourself personally have a legal obligation in mitigating danger or injury to yourself by taking account of your immediate surroundings. Where your claim will fail is if it is reasonable and proportionate to impose liability of the Leisure Centre? The answer has to be no.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3934 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

my daughter was issued a penalty fine on 15th june 2013, she had no money on her, was crying & the station where she boarded had no staff.

i appealed the following day sent recorded delivery. & stupidly did not pay the fine.

received letter today 8th july, Letter sent on 5th july stating that i had won appeal so now only owed £2.21 so rang straight away today to be informed i owed £22.21 ? it was explained that it was admin fee because i had not payed in 21 days, so now i have won appeal & instead of paying £20 have ended up paying £22.21 ?

funny how appeal was won 1 day before the 21days!

 

my daughter is 13yrs old

Link to post
Share on other sites

my daughter was issued a penalty fine on 15th june 2013, she had no money on her, was crying & the station where she boarded had no staff.

i appealed the following day sent recorded delivery. & stupidly did not pay the fine.

received letter today 8th july, Letter sent on 5th july stating that i had won appeal so now only owed £2.21 so rang straight away today to be informed i owed £22.21 ? it was explained that it was admin fee because i had not payed in 21 days, so now i have won appeal & instead of paying £20 have ended up paying £22.21 ?

funny how appeal was won 1 day before the 21days!

 

my daughter is 13yrs old

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope the rail guys will be along soon with advice for you because I'm not an expert.

 

I think it might help if we could hear a bit more of the story please, but if the difference in the figures you've quoted is £20, I wonder if that's a penalty fare. Fines can only be handed out by courts.

 

Please tell us more about the story if you can.

 

My best.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi

she was given a penalty fare notice on 15th june for £20

 

received letter stating that appeal had won so owed £2.21 which is fare price today letter sent on 5th

 

informed today i owed £22.21 because admin of £20 was added on 7th !!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

I would take this to the press. I think it was last year when a young woman was refused entry to a bus as she was 20p short. She was subsequently raped as she walked home.

Travel companies should have an obligation to help children in distress (I believe they do) and although you have paid the extra £20, I would be demanding it back and an apology

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

I would take this to the press. I think it was last year when a young woman was refused entry to a bus as she was 20p short. She was subsequently raped as she walked home.

Travel companies should have an obligation to help children in distress (I believe they do) and although you have paid the extra £20, I would be demanding it back and an apology

 

 

 

I would like further clarification from the OP before jumping to any conclusions regarding this

 

If a person (whether young or old) has no valid ticket and no means to pay, rail companies are not obliged to carry them any more than anyone else is.

 

There is no blanket obligation to carry anyone, BUT there is an arrangement used by the rail operators known as 'SILK' which is designed to deal with a stranded traveller situation.

 

Can the OP tell us please,

 

i) how old is your daughter?

ii) did your daughter have any rail ticket at all?

iii) did she speak to anyone in authority at the station before boarding a train without a valid ticket?

 

Maybe, if we have the answers to all of those questions, we can make suggestions to help further.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like further clarification from the OP before jumping to any conclusions regarding this

 

If a person (whether young or old) has no valid ticket and no means to pay, rail companies are not obliged to carry them any more than anyone else is.

 

There is no blanket obligation to carry anyone, BUT there is an arrangement used by the rail operators known as 'SILK' which is designed to deal with a stranded traveller situation.

 

Can the OP tell us please,

 

i) how old is your daughter?

ii) did your daughter have any rail ticket at all?

iii) did she speak to anyone in authority at the station before boarding a train without a valid ticket?

 

Maybe, if we have the answers to all of those questions, we can make suggestions to help further.

 

I believe the OP's daughter is 13-years old.

 

In such cases the TOC obviously has a duty of care where an under 16 is concerned. Now this can arguably be a Penalty Fare Notice, but in most cases is an Unpaid Fare Notice (The cost of the fare alone). There's no specific appeals process for an Unpaid Fare Notice, but it's ideal for situations such as these, where there's a child involved. This allows the child to travel, and thus takes in to account their duty of care. Personally I'd sooner call the parents and transfer said duty of care to them to save any allegations of neglecting my duties etc. Or call the Police of course. Legally, they could pursue the matter to a youth court if no payment is received as they'll cancel the notice and proceed under a Railway Byelaw. Realistically though, that wouldn't be in the public interest, and I can almost guarantee that. I'd even stake my salary on it. Everything court-wise has to be in the public interest, and this won't be, assuming your facts are correct.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like further clarification from the OP before jumping to any conclusions regarding this

 

If a person (whether young or old) has no valid ticket and no means to pay, rail companies are not obliged to carry them any more than anyone else is.

 

There is no blanket obligation to carry anyone, BUT there is an arrangement used by the rail operators known as 'SILK' which is designed to deal with a stranded traveller situation.

 

Can the OP tell us please,

 

i) how old is your daughter?

ii) did your daughter have any rail ticket at all?

iii) did she speak to anyone in authority at the station before boarding a train without a valid ticket?

 

Maybe, if we have the answers to all of those questions, we can make suggestions to help further.

 

 

my daughter is 13yrs old

she had no money or railcard

the station was un manned so she could not speak to anyone, which is why they upheld my appeal.

she was crying why could nt they of rung me or asked her to ring me so i could of met her with the money

? or issued her for her fare?

thankyou!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

my daughter was staying at an older friends house which is why she had no money, there was an argument at the station that had frightened my daughter & as she was scared got on the train to come home (the argument was nothing to do with her she was not involved) which is what she told inspector & i wrote in my letter to them,

as previously said they did uphold my appeal so i only had to pay fare price

my problem is that they made decision on fri 5th & added £20 admin on 7th!!!

surely if i can prove that ticket should not have been issued then i can get my admin fee back?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is easy to be wise after an event, but a great pity that you didn't send just the £2.21 fare requested when you replied after having had the appeal upheld.

 

The admin fee could not have been enforced, but having paid it, you may have a struggle getting it back, though personally I cannot see any reason why a fair assessment means you should not be reimbursed.

 

Where you will have difficulty is that you cannot prove the demand should not have been issued. It was correctly issued. No-one has a right to travel without a ticket or means, but the TOC seem to have gone the extra mile in this instance. In order to assist in maintaining your daughter's safety and to facilitate her journey home , they have conveyed your daughter without ticket or means to pay and have confirmed that just the fare would be accepted. They didn't have to do that.

 

It is the processing agency who have levied the late payment charge.

 

Good luck.

Link to post
Share on other sites

that is why im so annoyed because i never knew about my appeal until after admin fee had been added! i received their letter on 8th so rang to pay, the penalty fare notice given to my daughter was £20 it was only at appeal they decided i just had to pay fare. now i have had to pay both, i dont expect to travel for free & if she had been give a notice for only her fare i would have payed it immediately

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I think the guard could have used his discretion here although to be fair to him /her once you get above 30 years old yourself it can be damned tricky to ascertain someones age.

In my years as a guard and Inspector I would not have issued anything UPFN or otherwise since it was unlikely to be beneficial to anyone.

 

I agree that 13 year olds etc shouldn't be abandoned without transport elsewhere, however (I'm playing devils advocate here so no brickbats please!) why should a private transport company fulfil these needs?

i.e, would a taxi driver/the police have given her free transportation?

 

I detested the times when a minor (much younger than 13 to be fair) was foisted upon me and my staff (usually on a peak service where staff did not have time to monitor them anyway) and actually refused a few on really busy trains.

 

If the railway (and bus services for that matter) is now a public service then (political head on here ) it should be nationalised.

You really can't have it both ways IMHO.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I'm not sure how £2.21 comes in as all rail fares are multiples of 5p.

 

However, Penalty Fare notices do state that payment is required within 21 days independent of any appeal you may wish to make.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...