admin fee !!!

[tinaweath]

my daughter was issued a penalty fine on 15th june 2013, she had no money on her, was crying & the station where she boarded had no staff.

i appealed the following day sent recorded delivery. & stupidly did not pay the fine.

received letter today 8th july, Letter sent on 5th july stating that i had won appeal so now only owed £2.21 so rang straight away today to be informed i owed £22.21 ? it was explained that it was admin fee because i had not payed in 21 days, so now i have won appeal & instead of paying £20 have ended up paying £22.21 ?

funny how appeal was won 1 day before the 21days!

 

my daughter is 13yrs old

[honeybee13]

my daughter was issued a penalty fine on 15th june 2013, she had no money on her, was crying & the station where she boarded had no staff.

i appealed the following day sent recorded delivery. & stupidly did not pay the fine.

received letter today 8th july, Letter sent on 5th july stating that i had won appeal so now only owed £2.21 so rang straight away today to be informed i owed £22.21 ? it was explained that it was admin fee because i had not payed in 21 days, so now i have won appeal & instead of paying £20 have ended up paying £22.21 ?

funny how appeal was won 1 day before the 21days!

 

my daughter is 13yrs old

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope the rail guys will be along soon with advice for you because I'm not an expert.

 

I think it might help if we could hear a bit more of the story please, but if the difference in the figures you've quoted is £20, I wonder if that's a penalty fare. Fines can only be handed out by courts.

 

Please tell us more about the story if you can.

 

My best.

[tinaweath]

hi

she was given a penalty fare notice on 15th june for £20

 

received letter stating that appeal had won so owed £2.21 which is fare price today letter sent on 5th

 

informed today i owed £22.21 because admin of £20 was added on 7th !!!!

[Old-CodJA]

Have you paid the £22.21 ?

[tinaweath]

hi

yes i have paid, to stop it getting worse!!!

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I would take this to the press. I think it was last year when a young woman was refused entry to a bus as she was 20p short. She was subsequently raped as she walked home.

Travel companies should have an obligation to help children in distress (I believe they do) and although you have paid the extra £20, I would be demanding it back and an apology

[Old-CodJA]

Hi

I would take this to the press. I think it was last year when a young woman was refused entry to a bus as she was 20p short. She was subsequently raped as she walked home.

Travel companies should have an obligation to help children in distress (I believe they do) and although you have paid the extra £20, I would be demanding it back and an apology

 

 

 

I would like further clarification from the OP before jumping to any conclusions regarding this

 

If a person (whether young or old) has no valid ticket and no means to pay, rail companies are not obliged to carry them any more than anyone else is.

 

There is no blanket obligation to carry anyone, BUT there is an arrangement used by the rail operators known as 'SILK' which is designed to deal with a stranded traveller situation.

 

Can the OP tell us please,

 

i) how old is your daughter?

ii) did your daughter have any rail ticket at all?

iii) did she speak to anyone in authority at the station before boarding a train without a valid ticket?

 

Maybe, if we have the answers to all of those questions, we can make suggestions to help further.

[Stigy]

I would like further clarification from the OP before jumping to any conclusions regarding this

 

If a person (whether young or old) has no valid ticket and no means to pay, rail companies are not obliged to carry them any more than anyone else is.

 

There is no blanket obligation to carry anyone, BUT there is an arrangement used by the rail operators known as 'SILK' which is designed to deal with a stranded traveller situation.

 

Can the OP tell us please,

 

i) how old is your daughter?

ii) did your daughter have any rail ticket at all?

iii) did she speak to anyone in authority at the station before boarding a train without a valid ticket?

 

Maybe, if we have the answers to all of those questions, we can make suggestions to help further.

 

I believe the OP's daughter is 13-years old.

 

In such cases the TOC obviously has a duty of care where an under 16 is concerned. Now this can arguably be a Penalty Fare Notice, but in most cases is an Unpaid Fare Notice (The cost of the fare alone). There's no specific appeals process for an Unpaid Fare Notice, but it's ideal for situations such as these, where there's a child involved. This allows the child to travel, and thus takes in to account their duty of care. Personally I'd sooner call the parents and transfer said duty of care to them to save any allegations of neglecting my duties etc. Or call the Police of course. Legally, they could pursue the matter to a youth court if no payment is received as they'll cancel the notice and proceed under a Railway Byelaw. Realistically though, that wouldn't be in the public interest, and I can almost guarantee that. I'd even stake my salary on it. Everything court-wise has to be in the public interest, and this won't be, assuming your facts are correct.

[tinaweath]

I would like further clarification from the OP before jumping to any conclusions regarding this

 

If a person (whether young or old) has no valid ticket and no means to pay, rail companies are not obliged to carry them any more than anyone else is.

 

There is no blanket obligation to carry anyone, BUT there is an arrangement used by the rail operators known as 'SILK' which is designed to deal with a stranded traveller situation.

 

Can the OP tell us please,

 

i) how old is your daughter?

ii) did your daughter have any rail ticket at all?

iii) did she speak to anyone in authority at the station before boarding a train without a valid ticket?

 

Maybe, if we have the answers to all of those questions, we can make suggestions to help further.

 

 

my daughter is 13yrs old

she had no money or railcard

the station was un manned so she could not speak to anyone, which is why they upheld my appeal.

she was crying why could nt they of rung me or asked her to ring me so i could of met her with the money

? or issued her for her fare?

thankyou!!

[tinaweath]

my daughter was staying at an older friends house which is why she had no money, there was an argument at the station that had frightened my daughter & as she was scared got on the train to come home (the argument was nothing to do with her she was not involved) which is what she told inspector & i wrote in my letter to them,

as previously said they did uphold my appeal so i only had to pay fare price

my problem is that they made decision on fri 5th & added £20 admin on 7th!!!

surely if i can prove that ticket should not have been issued then i can get my admin fee back?

[Old-CodJA]

It is easy to be wise after an event, but a great pity that you didn't send just the £2.21 fare requested when you replied after having had the appeal upheld.

 

The admin fee could not have been enforced, but having paid it, you may have a struggle getting it back, though personally I cannot see any reason why a fair assessment means you should not be reimbursed.

 

Where you will have difficulty is that you cannot prove the demand should not have been issued. It was correctly issued. No-one has a right to travel without a ticket or means, but the TOC seem to have gone the extra mile in this instance. In order to assist in maintaining your daughter's safety and to facilitate her journey home , they have conveyed your daughter without ticket or means to pay and have confirmed that just the fare would be accepted. They didn't have to do that.

 

It is the processing agency who have levied the late payment charge.

 

Good luck.

[tinaweath]

that is why im so annoyed because i never knew about my appeal until after admin fee had been added! i received their letter on 8th so rang to pay, the penalty fare notice given to my daughter was £20 it was only at appeal they decided i just had to pay fare. now i have had to pay both, i dont expect to travel for free & if she had been give a notice for only her fare i would have payed it immediately

[timbo58]

I think the guard could have used his discretion here although to be fair to him /her once you get above 30 years old yourself it can be damned tricky to ascertain someones age.

In my years as a guard and Inspector I would not have issued anything UPFN or otherwise since it was unlikely to be beneficial to anyone.

 

I agree that 13 year olds etc shouldn't be abandoned without transport elsewhere, however (I'm playing devils advocate here so no brickbats please!) why should a private transport company fulfil these needs?

i.e, would a taxi driver/the police have given her free transportation?

 

I detested the times when a minor (much younger than 13 to be fair) was foisted upon me and my staff (usually on a peak service where staff did not have time to monitor them anyway) and actually refused a few on really busy trains.

 

If the railway (and bus services for that matter) is now a public service then (political head on here ) it should be nationalised.

You really can't have it both ways IMHO.

[stifle]

I'm not sure how £2.21 comes in as all rail fares are multiples of 5p.

 

However, Penalty Fare notices do state that payment is required within 21 days independent of any appeal you may wish to make.