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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Need Logbook help Please


sick2death
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Hi,

Please can you help me,ive been going round & round in circles on the web :(

 

On 6th May 2012 i sold my car to a man who i only knew as Gary. After giving him all the paperwork etc i walked & totally forgot about my logbook so i phoned him & he said he would call back through with it but he didnt. Ive phoned him about five times now and he has different excuses,the latest from his girlfriend saying his in prison!

I phoned the Police and they just told me to contact DVLA. Ive been on the DVLA website and i can write to them but they need the new owners name and address,which ive asked his girlfriend for and she won't give me it saying i need to speak to Gary (who's in jail)

So im totally at a loss what to do? He's basically through my stupidity stolen my logbook and i think im probably going to get in serious trouble. But theres no forms i can fill in that has this problem. I dont even think he has the car anymore. Please tell me if theres anything i can do.

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He may have paid but he (or his accomplices) are not playing it straight. Time for you to do the same.

 

Remember the original Thomas Crown Affair film?

Faye Dunaway gave Steve McQueen (or the other way around) a desk sign saying "Think dirty"

 

Protect yourself using their levels of openness! Tell them it is stolen - which it is, as they have not fully completed their side of the bargain.

 

And protect your Dad from all this - you only ever have one Dad and he is special.

Edited by citizenB
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Thanks Tony..Ive always been an honest person,maybe thats where im going wrong.

I bought a car about 6yrs ago from a used car dealer and AGAIN in all the small talk and document swapping,i got half way home in the new car and the dealer foned me to say i hadn't paid for it! So i apologized and went back and paid lol,it was because we were talking.

Anyway his girlfriend or someone has just text me to say its at a car dealers in Heckmondwike,West Yorkshire,so il phone them in the morning and see what happens. If your right and law is that he hasnt kept up his side of the sale then il report it stolen i guess? I just dont want to get in trouble. Is that the law then Tony? If it is then il do it. Just that im about to start a new job and there will be a CRB check and conspiracy to 'do whatever it is' wont look good.. But yeh i only have one dad and this would put him back in hospital he's so ill and worries.

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Just that im about to start a new job and there will be a CRB check and conspiracy to 'do whatever it is' wont look good..

 

A CRB check is to find out about an existing Criminal Record (possibly taking in pending serious matters too).

Assuming there are no skeletons in your cupboard, for you to acquire a Criminal Record there must first be a prosecution - then a conviction.

You are on good ground if you kept to your side and the other side failed to do the same.

 

Until then don't worry - but get busy to get this resolved. By any means!

 

And come back here with problems and news. There are many here with far deeper knowledge than me and we are all here to help!

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Thanks Tony :) No skeletons nope lol..just dont want to be arrested for conspiracy or whatever they call it,but i will be phoning the garage tomorrow and hopefully i can resolve this without it getting out of hand. Il let you know what the outcome is,just hope they havent done a logbook loan against it as ive read we arnt covered against it,anyway we'l see tomorrow thanks again :)

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I cannot believe that anyone is telling the OP to lie to the police! That is totally irresponsible.

 

Have you made any progress sick2death.

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I cannot believe that anyone is telling the OP to lie to the police! That is totally irresponsible.

 

Have you made any progress sick2death.

 

Agreed, those posts encouraging the OP to perjure himself have been removed.

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I cannot believe that anyone is telling the OP to lie to the police!

 

As I was the only person posting other than the OP, I can only assume this is directed at me. Please explain where I have suggest such a thing as lying to the Police.

 

 

Also, as "Site Team" can you also explain the absence of posts prior to number 3 above. You will note the OP thanks me for something that is not there. Odd?

From memory it would have been a suggestion to Thomas Crown Affair's 'think dirty' attitude when dealing with the Buyer who failed to keep his end of the deal concerning the paperwork. He does not deserve an apologetic 'softly softly' approach.

To think otherwise is condoning those failing to stick to what is agreed and caused the OP's predicament.

 

EDIT

While writing the above the absence of post(s) has been confirmed. My question above remains as does a confirmation it is Site's wishes that those failing to stick to what they agreed should be treated with a political correctness sooner than being correctly (in my view) reported for the inconvenience and potential liabilities he has created.

Edited by Tony P
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The opening post confirms 'logbook has been stolen', and as it is no longer in the possession of the registered keeper, the detail could now be anybody's as could the vehicle use/misuse.

 

The police would of course be able to give advice once they are in possession of everything occurring to date, but for now there is a vehicle out there, doing deeds that the original owner may be in some way culpable.

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As I was the only person posting other than the OP, I can only assume this is directed at me. Please explain where I have suggest such a thing as lying to the Police.

 

 

Also, as "Site Team" can you also explain the absence of posts prior to number 3 above. You will note the OP thanks me for something that is not there. Odd?

From memory it would have been a suggestion to Thomas Crown Affair's 'think dirty' attitude when dealing with the Buyer who failed to keep his end of the deal concerning the paperwork. He does not deserve an apologetic 'softly softly' approach.

To think otherwise is condoning those failing to stick to what is agreed and caused the OP's predicament.

 

EDIT

While writing the above the absence of post(s) has been confirmed. My question above remains as does a confirmation it is Site's wishes that those failing to stick to what they agreed should be treated with a political correctness sooner than being correctly (in my view) reported for the inconvenience and potential liabilities he has created.

 

A number of posts have been removed including your own, because they either contain advice to act illegally, or quote this advice. Such advice could be damaging for the OP and potentially for the site too. For clarification, there is no implication that this advice was yours.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi everyone,sorry about the delay in responding.

I had another 'dodgy' phone conversation with the buyers girlfriend and she told me that the car was now at a garage in Huddersfield,i phoned them but no answer so decided to phone DVLA.

They told me to put it all in writing to them,so i did and sent it off recorded delivery. So im just awaiting my punishment i suppose. They did tell me when i phoned that the car was still in my name :/

For further ref for others in this position and for the people on the thread who have commented i will come back and let you know what happens to me.

Thank you all :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to update you on the outcome for future ref. I wrote to DVLA and in the letter i told them that the buyer wouldnt give me the log book back and that i didnt have his contact details and that i had tried the police,basically giving them as much info as possible which wasnt a lot to be honest. Anyway they finally sent me a acknowledgement slip saying that it confirmed that i was no longer the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number ##### and that i have to keep it safe,which i will!

I hope this will be the end of it but you never know :)

Thanks for your help :)

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Thanks for coming back. Glad it seems to be sorted. :-)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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