RBS Credit Card PPI Rejected, Time limit to try again?

[Smartalex]

Hello, sorry if this has been asked before, I cant find an answer anywhere.

 

Around 1 year ago I submitted my PPi claims to RBS for my 4 bank loans and a still active credit card which was part successful, I won my loan PPi claims to the tune of £4,300 but at the time my credit card claim was rejected by the claims manager.

 

At the time of claiming I told them that I had applied in branch for my credit card and the advisor filled in the application form for me advising me that it was in my best intrests to take the protection (I have also recently seen an application form from around the time I applied and it suggests on the application that PPi should be taken.) and that I had cancelled the PPi when the news broke about PPi mis-selling.

 

When I received the rejection form it said that my application was a mail in application so I could not have applied in branch so my claim was stopped there, I left it at that because I had won on the other 4 claims but seeing the application form recently renewed my thought that I should'nt have left it at that.

 

I am pretty sure that I was offered the card at the same time as refinancing a loan in branch and if the application was a mail in one as notified, it was the branch that mailed it as I have never applied for any credit outside of my bank. (13 year customer).

 

I on Monday have sent in a CCA request to get a copy of my application form (which I think I only signed never filled in) to see if it is in my handwriting and find out if anything can be done.

 

I still have full copies of the original claim and rejection letters along with enclosed terms and conditions but no copy of the application even though it was noted in the enclosed documents.

 

My main issue is that it is too late to do anything about it. Is a year too long? i keep seeing 6 months for ombudsman help but nothing for appeals or re-applications.

 

Any advice or knowledge of this would be most helpful.

 

I can also scan and upload the docs if they are needed.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Alex.

[dx100uk]

yes you can 'resurrect the complaint'

 

dx

[dazza12]

When did they finally reject the complaint? Did they send you a 'full and final' letter (should contain those words)?

 

You have 6 months from the date of that decision letter to refer it to FOS. If it's later than that, then FOS will most likely reject it.

 

There are a limited set of circumstances where people have submitted late and been accepted, but FOS are fairly strict about the time limit. It's worth calling FOS to check what they'll class as an acceptable reason, but from observations, unless you were incapacitated or had a close bereavement they're likely to reject it.

[Smartalex]

When did they finally reject the complaint? Did they send you a 'full and final' letter (should contain those words)?

 

You have 6 months from the date of that decision letter to refer it to FOS. If it's later than that, then FOS will most likely reject it.

 

There are a limited set of circumstances where people have submitted late and been accepted, but FOS are fairly strict about the time limit. It's worth calling FOS to check what they'll class as an acceptable reason, but from observations, unless you were incapacitated or had a close bereavement they're likely to reject it.

 

It was rejected in May 2012, I am at work at the moment but will read the letter again for those words and get back to you.

 

Dx, when you say ressurect do you mean start a new claim or just respond though the original rejection letter?

 

Thanks for the speedy replies.

 

Alex.

[Smartalex]

Hi,

 

I have been looking through the documents again,

it's been a while since I read it and realise I may have shot myself in the foot with what I said in my original claim

 

I may have filled in the form but can't remember it was 10 years ago but it was definitely in branch and they mailed it,

I am still waiting for the copy of the original application form which until I get it I'm not sure who filled in the application form,

myself or the advisor, When I receive it I'll upload it too.

 

I've attached the rejection letter including the only enclosures (The Policy plan document, there was no credit card agreement form,

certificate of insurance or credit card statements as stated on page 1 of the letter.),

as I said before they did not send me a copy of the application or the statements as described on the letter.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Alex.

[dazza12]

Although the specific wording wasn't there, they refer to the 6 month time limit for referral to FOS. This means that the FOS route is no longer available to you.

 

What is interesting however is that they have invited you to contact them to investigate again. No time limit has been specified here so it's possible that they will be able to look at it again. It's also possible they may treat this as another separate complaint, meaning you may be able to refer to FOS once their investigation is complete.

[dx100uk]

Very good case for bringing it back to life.

 

that letter is MERE SPECULATION

that the correct processes WERE adhered too

 

the member of stalff obv [for reasons of getting the selling commission bonus]

ticked the box & prob told you IN A CLOSED room you had to have it.

 

take a read of this thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?378821-LloydsTSB-Loan-PPi&p=4120422&highlight=ppi+success#post4120422

[dx100uk]

Very good case for bringing it back to life.

 

that letter is MERE SPECULATION

that the correct processes WERE adhered too

 

the member of stalff obv [for reasons of getting the selling commission bonus]

ticked the box & prob told you IN A CLOSED room you had to have it.

 

take a read of this thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?378821-LloydsTSB-Loan-PPi&p=4120422&highlight=ppi+success#post4120422

[Smartalex]

Thanks again for the help things look more positive now.

 

My main issue was time expired, The fact that they have invited me to contact them to investigate again without time limit does appeal to the route I want to take and the letter appearing as speculation makes it even better but just need to get all my facts straight before I even attempt it.

 

As I said I am awaiting the results of a CCA which I mailed on Monday which should bring some light to the subject. they have the 12 days to respond so will post the results when they arrive.

 

Thanks again for the advice and quick replies.

 

Alex.

[dx100uk]

12+2 working days

 

dx

[Smartalex]

Hello again, I have received a reply from RBS for my CCA request but they have rejected it because of the automated signature which I was advised to place on the letter to avoid them possibly copying it for other purposes.

 

I have attached the original CCA request letter which I sent them and their reply.

 

They returned my postal order and the envelope which I sent it in.

 

Should I resend it with my signature? I was under the impression this was not an enforceable request.

 

Thanks for any help advice you can give.

 

Alex.

 

EDIT:- Deleted tiny JPG's uploaded PDF.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Smartalex
Deleted tiny JPG's uploaded PDF file.

[dx100uk]

please PDF them

 

dx

[Smartalex]

My Apologies, here they are again.

[dx100uk]

where did you get that from.........not here

you'll never see the deed only the notice of assignment

and that's not a legal part of a cca request anyhow

 

can I suggest you send

 

 

The Loan Company

 

Company House,

 

Church Street,

 

Newtown,

 

Kent,

 

R1 7HG

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Re:- Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412

 

I do not acknowledge any debt with your Company or Associates

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide, including a detailed statement of the account.

 

 

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

 

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

 

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

 

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

 

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr A N Other

 

 

there is no legal requirement to sign it

 

and inc a copy of a current util bill if you have moved

or make ref to you old address

 

dx

[Smartalex]

I got the template when I googled CCA request form and used a guide from a wordpress page which quoted "This template is adapted from “Letter N” on the Consumer Action Group forum. You can amend it as necessary." Which reminded me I joined CAG when I first started my PPi claims.

 

I can link to it, but unsure if it is allowed in the forum.

 

It was the same site that quoted "It is recommended that you do not sign the letter with your usual signature, as there have been rumours of creditors “cutting and pasting” it onto their own paperwork. You could use a handwriting font in your word processor, or sign over a thick line which would make it obvious if your signature was tampered with."

 

This is why I used a font to sign it.

 

In addition when I sign the above letter when ready to send should I use my true signature or amend it slightly to show if it was indeed cut and pasted as I was first informed or is this in the extreme?

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Alex.

[dx100uk]

opps mis type

 

there is NO legal requirement to sign a cca request sri.

 

Select committee on Trade and Industry minutes of evidence (1996 Legislative working party)

 

2. The working party looked at the legal issues regarding the terms document, writing, signature, instrument, and records of transactions and originality. The Government's current proposed legislation focuses particularly upon the issue of signature. The working party considered the leading case in English law on signature methods, Goodman -v- J Eban Limited.

That decision established that:

2.1 mechanical signatures using rubber stamps, printing or typewriting were valid in english law;

2.2 a signature can be by a mark rather than a name as long as evidence can be given to indentify the placer of the mark and the intention to sign; and

2.3 words other than a name can amount to a signature if the necessary intention to sign can be proven

 

Now although this working party was looking into the Electronics Commerce Bill it points to . .

Goodman v J Eban Ltd (1954)

 

A solicitor signed a solicitors bill with a rubber stamp which contained the name of the law firm. In the judgment it was determined that the rubber stamp was a valid signature, even theough the Solicitors Act of 1932 required a solicitors bill to be signed; it was established that it is enough to demonstrate that the rubber stamp was affixed by the solicitor with the intention to sign the solicitor's bill.

 

So now taking the highlights above I go to:

Interpretations act 1978

Schedule 1

1973 c.37.

 

"Writing" includes typing, lithograpgy, photography or other modes of representing or reproducing words in a visible form and expressions refering to writing can be construed accordingly

 

Also;

[/i][/b]

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/checklist_for_handling_requests_for_personal_information.pdf

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8861&d=1242456802

[Smartalex]

Thanks for the info DX100uk.

 

I am still unsure which step I should take next, should I send the letter you posted with a digital signature and a note stating that the automated signature should be accepted as such or send it with my original signature but with a sharpie line through it.

 

Or maybe I just send it with my original signature as they should still have it anyway on the original credit agreement which is what I want to get my hands on in the first place.

 

Also, you mentioned:-

"you'll never see the deed only the notice of assignment"

Is that the original application I signed in the branch as I only really need the application form to see if it was indeed filled in by myself, I am unclear which document is which.

 

Thanks again, sorry if I'm being a pest.

 

Alex.

[dx100uk]

your org poor cca asked for the deed, you wont get it.

 

just use our cca request

with a £1 blank PO

 

don't sign it AT ALL.

just computer print your name as per the cca letter

 

inc details of any prev address though. [if you have moved since it was taken out]

 

 

why do you need the cca?

 

surely an sar is better?

 

dx

[Smartalex]

I honestly was unsure if I needed the CCA or a SAR, The CCA would get me the Credit Card application form so I was led to believe and I needed the original card agreement as my PPI claim was first rejected saying it was a postal application but I am 100% sure it was done in branch at the same time as a re-financing of a previous loan as I have never applied for credit outside of my bank.

 

I basically want to see the original form because I cannot remember if I filled it in or the advisor did either way it was in a closed room and I'm sure the application form had "we STRONGLY recommend you take out this cover" on the PPI section of the form, see the attached PDF for a similar application from around the time around when I applied.

 

I just need proof on paper so I can re-apply for the PPI as they rejected it on the grounds that it was a postal application and not a branch application, either way I am sure I was coerced either by the advisor or the form it was 13 years ago and I can't remember exactly.

 

Should I get a SAR? Will it get me more proof/info? Again this is unknown territory for me, I just want to get my facts straight so they can't find reason to reject me again.

 

Thanks.

 

Alex

[dx100uk]

IMHo I would SAR

 

add a line specifically asking for any/all agreements.

 

inc details of past addresses if relevant.

SIGN the SAR letter

 

no need to munge it at all

 

dx

[Smartalex]

Here is the attached SAR Request letter I am going to send with the obvious amendments to be added (my addresses, Signature and account number)

 

I hope this looks ok, I am unsure if it has the correct address to send the SAR to.

 

Sorry for needing lead by the hand with this, I feel a bit out of my depth.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Alex.

[dx100uk]

yep good

 

 

if you look at the stickies of the RBS forum here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?18-Royal-Bank-of-Scotland

 

drill down

and look at the red/yellow stickies

for the address

dx

[Smartalex]

Found the address, letter all filled in and ready to go.

 

I'll get back you when I receive a reply.

 

Thanks again.

 

Alex.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Address to the Data Controller, for quicker action.

[Smartalex]

Hi folks,

 

Just received my SAR documents from RBS as requested (Statements, Account notes & Credit Card Application) and have attached the application form which as you can see on it has the "Card payment protection (We strongly recommend you take out this cover)" section ticked.

 

As I previously mentioned my first PPi claim was rejected because I originally told them:-

 

1. I did not fill the form in I just signed it after a member of staff filled it in.

(This is not the case, The application is in my handwriting)

 

2. That the application was done in branch.

(I cannot remember if this was the case now that I have seen it, I applied for all my loans in branch but this application is indeed a "mail in application" which was pointed out in the rejection but I can't remember mailing it.)

 

This is probably due to the fact I have forgotten how I applied because it was over 10 years ago and made my claim without proper information.

 

Either way, my question now is will I still be able to claim the PPi and how after these issues because at the end of the day it's 7 years worth of PPi Payments at around £18 a month (around £1500) that they owe me and the application does lead into ticking the PPi box.

 

Thanks again for any info you can give, I feel at a loss with this one.

 

Alex.