Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed

[IS IT ME?]

Well,

Firstly, yes the judge WOULD like to take over but he is unable to do so and the matter must be heard at the property chamber.

Alisono, I will help where and when I can I have been doing this for the last 4 years and it is nothing to worry about yes your home is the most important thing but your life and family are more than that and it is for them your are doing this.

The deed you have is the same as every one elses it is not signed and therefore NOT VOID no matter what others on here who try and try to put people off best them.

read below.

 

I have to day had my friend run around with this reply from the chamber ( Jabba are you looking!!!!!!)

 

the matters raised un this application have been raised in a NUMBER of other applications recently s108 applications made to the chamber. This is the first application( you have to ask why) and is the only one (so far ) a response has been made and filed, as well as an application to strike out by the respondents.

Of the other applications the tribunal would prefer to stay the applications with a view to disseminating a decision once there has ben a hearing, it is possible that a number of cases will be heard at the same time.

Then asks to lists dates to avoid, I will be able to go in January and asked for t 2 day listing.

 

So there we have it Jabba & Ben who ever you are this has not been thrown out and we WILL have our day in court.

 

Well done apple. You can now have some tea>lol.

[IS IT ME?]

Just to let people know and that there can be no questions later on i am not, not a solicitor or any thing to do with the legal side

but have been dealing with these .... For some 4 years and now know they are able to do any or say any thing to win they case, would i trust them no

would i believe any thing they say no

 

so that's me

[IS IT ME?]

Site team,

Is it ow possible for apple if they wish to have some PM now due to the matters at hand and as I do not think it is in the rules to give the other side your views and arguments before any hearings.

off course any other matters or help needed would be posted up on the thread.

As you have seen this is now a serious thread.

[applecart]

hi apple shall i get a oc1 ordered? my deeds say official copy of the original i also got a title deed from HMLR which was £3 pounds and is sent via a pdf to download it shows everything on it except signatures.

 

pj

 

Hi P.J

 

If you did not get 'official copies' from HMLR...then yes....you must make sure that the copies you intend to rely on in court are all 'official copies' as sent to you direct from HMLR.

 

If you have already done so....then, what you have obtained from them will have their 'stamp' all over it.....that's what is needed.

 

The £3.00 copy you received on-line is not 'official'......that is a copy of the 'title register'

 

Your Official of the 'title register' does not have to be signed by either you or the lender.......it is there to let you know who is showing as having a lawful interest in your property and legal estate..ok....don't worry too much about this.

 

Try not to confuse......'copy of the title register'....with 'copy of the deed'.......they are 2 different documents with different - yet integral implications......

 

When are you in court?......mid to end This month???......just answer 'mid' or 'end'

 

Apple

[UNRAM]

I have received notice from the Property Chamber my application is going forward and I have been ORDERED to send a copy of the application and all supporting documentation to the lender. The lender is ORDERED to respond within one calendar month. I will scan the documents if there is some way of getting them to you.

 

They have indicated that there is going to be a group tribunal in London in November or December.

 

This is exact wording of the reply...

 

"The tribunal has received a number of similar applications which appear to be based on draft pleadings which are circulating on the internet. In the interests of efficient case management the Tribunal is in the process of identifying a number of cases to be heard at an oral hearing, with the intention of circulating a decisions for consideration in future applications, with a view to saving court time and the resources of litigants on both sides. The applicant should be aware that the Tribunal has no jurisdiction to grant declaratory relief, provide an indemnity, or award damages or, on an application under s108(2) Land Registration Acts 2002, make an order for alteration of the register. The Tribunal anticipates that this application might be one of those applications listed to be heard, subject to any representations by either party. Any such representation should be filed and served by 5pm 7th November 2013."

[applecart]

Well,

Firstly, yes the judge WOULD like to take over but he is unable to do so and the matter must be heard at the property chamber.

Alisono, I will help where and when I can I have been doing this for the last 4 years and it is nothing to worry about yes your home is the most important thing but your life and family are more than that and it is for them your are doing this.

The deed you have is the same as every one elses it is not signed and therefore NOT VOID no matter what others on here who try and try to put people off best them.

read below.

 

I have to day had my friend run around with this reply from the chamber ( Jabba are you looking!!!!!!)

 

the matters raised un this application have been raised in a NUMBER of other applications recently s108 applications made to the chamber. This is the first application( you have to ask why) and is the only one (so far ) a response has been made and filed, as well as an application to strike out by the respondents.

Of the other applications the tribunal would prefer to stay the applications with a view to disseminating a decision once there has ben a hearing, it is possible that a number of cases will be heard at the same time.

Then asks to lists dates to avoid, I will be able to go in January and asked for t 2 day listing.

 

So there we have it Jabba & Ben who ever you are this has not been thrown out and we WILL have our day in court.

 

Well done apple. You can now have some tea>lol.

 

OVERWHELMING AND RESOUNDING RESULT...........!!!!!!!

 

Tea??????........No chance!!........., where's that WINE BOTTLE..........

 

They have 'stayed' all the other applications no doubt because they all rely on exactly the same 'grounds' upon which your friends application relies on........so, the outcome is intended to be the same for all of them........

 

Ummmmmmm......the outcome might have had something to do with a document submitted to them that was wholly intended to underline not only your friends application but each and every other application that is sent to them based on similar grounds to that of your friends........... : )

 

I must say...... I would like to be party to THAT hearing ; )

 

Thanks for this Is It Me.......

 

As We KNOW There is NO DEFENCE......

 

Apple

[UNRAM]

What is the significance of this please?

 

"The applicant should be aware that the Tribunal has no jurisdiction to grant declaratory relief, provide an indemnity, or award damages or, on an application under s108(2) Land Registration Acts 2002, make an order for alteration of the register".

[applecart]

I have received notice from the Property Chamber my application is going forward and I have been ORDERED to send a copy of the application and all supporting documentation to the lender. The lender is ORDERED to respond within one calendar month. I will scan the documents if there is some way of getting them to you.

 

They have indicated that there is going to be a group tribunal in London in November or December.

 

This is exact wording of the reply...

 

"The tribunal has received a number of similar applications which appear to be based on draft pleadings which are circulating on the internet. In the interests of efficient case management the Tribunal is in the process of identifying a number of cases to be heard at an oral hearing, with the intention of circulating a decisions for consideration in future applications, with a view to saving court time and the resources of litigants on both sides. The applicant should be aware that the Tribunal has no jurisdiction to grant declaratory relief, provide an indemnity, or award damages or, on an application under s108(2) Land Registration Acts 2002, make an order for alteration of the register. The Tribunal anticipates that this application might be one of those applications listed to be heard, subject to any representations by either party. Any such representation should be filed and served by 5pm 7th November 2013."

 

RESULT......reemember, your application was slightly different to that of Is It Me's friend......so long as you are in the mix......you are in......Brilliant

 

I would strongly urge anyone who is 'sitting on the fence'....if they want to be included in what will be a ground breaking decision ...... they need to get those applications in right NOW!!

 

Apple

[honeybee13]

Can a Site Team Member please forward an email address to take receipt of the 'Defence' drawn up for Allisono please......It is almost ready........

 

Thanks in advance

 

Apple

 

Hello Apple.

 

If you want to alert site team to something, it's better to use the black triangle at the bottom of the relevant post. Does this work for you please?

 

HB

[applecart]

What is the significance of this please?

 

"The applicant should be aware that the Tribunal has no jurisdiction to grant declaratory relief, provide an indemnity, or award damages or, on an application under s108(2) Land Registration Acts 2002, make an order for alteration of the register".

 

You have given them the impression that you sought rectification under the LRA section 108 (2).......when it is schedule 4 para 5

 

Under section 108....they can consider your application to set aside

 

Under Schedule 4 para 5....they can order HMLR to rectify the register

 

Apple

[applecart]

Hello Apple.

 

If you want to alert site team to something, it's better to use the black triangle at the bottom of the relevant post. Does this work for you please?

 

HB

 

Yes, it appears to work....just sent a message......to test it....did you get it??

 

Apple

[alisono]

No problem I have an account with the land registry, I will order both, I have an official land registry register date last December I did because I sent them a letter to ask if SPML had tried to register anyone else. The reply was no but they also said they didn't have to inform me either if they did apply. I though this strange as I believed I would have to sign something else.

[applecart]

No problem I have an account with the land registry, I will order both, I have an official land registry register date last December I did because I sent them a letter to ask if SPML had tried to register anyone else. The reply was no but they also said they didn't have to inform me either if they did apply. I though this strange as I believed I would have to sign something else.

 

Ok.... You'll be pleased to know your Defence is NOW ready to be sent to you : )

 

I'm just waiting for the Site Team to get back to me.

 

As soon as they do.... I will get it sent over to you.......ok?

 

Apple

[alisono]

Wow, that's fantastic . Thank you:-D

[p.j]

Hi P.J

 

If you did not get 'official copies' from HMLR...then yes....you must make sure that the copies you intend to rely on in court are all 'official copies' as sent to you direct from HMLR.

 

If you have already done so....then, what you have obtained from them will have their 'stamp' all over it.....that's what is needed.

 

The £3.00 copy you received on-line is not 'official'......that is a copy of the 'title register'

 

Your Official of the 'title register' does not have to be signed by either you or the lender.......it is there to let you know who is showing as having a lawful interest in your property and legal estate..ok....don't worry too much about this.

 

Try not to confuse......'copy of the title register'....with 'copy of the deed'.......they are 2 different documents with different - yet integral implications......

 

When are you in court?......mid to end This month???......just answer 'mid' or 'end'

 

Apple

 

hi apple its mid this month. And the the deeds i received was from using the OC2 form £11 but they are photo copies of the originals and does say land registry official copy on it i cant see no stamp on it ?.

[applecart]

hi apple its mid this month. And the the deeds i received was from using the OC2 form £11 but they are photo copies of the originals and does say land registry official copy on it i cant see no stamp on it ?.

 

That's the one : )

 

Did you file a defence at all to the claim?

 

Apple

[UNRAM]

You have given them the impression that you sought rectification under the LRA section 108 (2).......when it is schedule 4 para 5

 

Under section 108....they can consider your application to set aside

 

Under Schedule 4 para 5....they can order HMLR to rectify the register

 

Apple

 

This reference is derived from your draft presentation -

 

"To amend the stated jurisdiction of the Land Registration Division of the Property Chamber from ‘alter’ to ‘set aside the deed’ pursuant to section 108 (2) LRA 2002; and to state the jurisdiction in this application with regard to an Order that HMLR rectify the register as being the body liable to ‘alter’ the register within the provisions of paragraph 5(a) of schedule 4 to the LRA 2002 subject to the application satisfying the additional requirements set out in paragraph 6 (2) of schedule 4 to the LRA 2002".

 

Is my omission likely to affect the applications ability to achieve my goal if I do not submit an amendment?

 

For clarity here are the relevant sections...

 

LRA 2002 108 Jurisdiction

 

(2)Also, the adjudicator may, on application, make any order which the High Court could make for the rectification or setting aside of a document which— (a) effects a qualifying disposition of a registered estate or charge,

(b) is a contract to make such a disposition, or

© effects a transfer of an interest which is the subject of a notice in the register.

Land Registration Act 2002 SCHEDULE 4 Section 5

 

Alteration otherwise than pursuant to a court order

 

5 The registrar may alter the register for the purpose of—

 

(a) correcting a mistake,

(b) bringing the register up to date,

© giving effect to any estate, right or interest excepted from the effect of registration, or

(d) removing a superfluous entry.

 

Land Registration Act 2002 SCHEDULE 4 Section 6.2

 

6(1) This paragraph applies to the power under paragraph 5, so far as relating to rectification.

 

(2) No alteration affecting the title of the proprietor of a registered estate in land may be made under paragraph 5 without the proprietor’s consent in relation to land in his possession unless—

(a) he has by fraud or lack of proper care caused or substantially contributed to the mistake, or

(b) it would for any other reason be unjust for the alteration not to be made.

 

Do I need to make these references explicit in my application in order to proceed? As stated they will accept amendments via email.

Edited October 3, 2013 by UNRAM

[applecart]

This reference is derived from your draft presentation -

 

"To amend the stated jurisdiction of the Land Registration Division of the Property Chamber from ‘alter’ to ‘set aside the deed’ pursuant to section 108 (2) LRA 2002; and to state the jurisdiction in this application with regard to an Order that HMLR rectify the register as being the body liable to ‘alter’ the register within the provisions of paragraph 5(a) of schedule 4 to the LRA 2002 subject to the application satisfying the additional requirements set out in paragraph 6 (2) of schedule 4 to the LRA 2002".

 

Is this going to affect the applications ability to achieve my goal based on a technical error - or lack of information. If so I have already made one amendment via email (by invitation) and I will make further one by including the above references....

 

For clarity here are the relevant sections...

 

LRA 2002 108 Jurisdiction

 

(2)Also, the adjudicator may, on application, make any order which the High Court could make for the rectification or setting aside of a document which— (a) effects a qualifying disposition of a registered estate or charge,

(b) is a contract to make such a disposition, or

© effects a transfer of an interest which is the subject of a notice in the register.

Land Registration Act 2002 SCHEDULE 4 Section 5

 

Alteration otherwise than pursuant to a court order

 

5The registrar may alter the register for the purpose of—

 

(a)correcting a mistake,

 

(b)bringing the register up to date,

 

©giving effect to any estate, right or interest excepted from the effect of registration, or

 

(d)removing a superfluous entry.

 

Hi UNRAM

 

Yes, that's what the 'draft' representation said....it directly related to the amendments required to assist Is It Me's friend. The chamber had rejected his initial application as you may know by now....so it was necessary to amend and submit the 'remedy sought' by means of the 'draft' written representation in the way it is presented.

 

What you have to do is check what you put in the 'remedy' section at part 4 of your application made to the Chamber...... you are welcome to post up what you said if you want me to have a look at it for you to see if I can identify where there may be an issue???

 

My only concern is I remember saying you were looking for a 'decision in principle'......that may also have something to do with the response you received????

 

Without more..... I cannot truly begin to see what needs to be done to assist further....

 

Let me know your thoughts?

 

Apple

[applecart]

Hi PJ

 

Can you advise the following please??

Did you file a defencei at all to the claim?

Apple

[p.j]

That's the one : )

 

Did you file a defence at all to the claim?

 

Apple

 

hi apple yes did the defence you did for alisono with a few tweaks for my details got it in already posted in by hand .

[applecart]

Hi PJ

 

Then, you may find you have the same outcome as Alisono...... you are likely to find that you are requested to file a defence also.......

 

I will ask the site team to send you a copy of the defence that I have put together for Alisono..... you will need to adapt it slightly to your situation...if that is ok?

 

Apple

[UNRAM]

Hi UNRAM

 

Yes, that's what the 'draft' representation said....it directly related to the amendments required to assist Is It Me's friend. The chamber had rejected his initial application as you may know by now....so it was necessary to amend and submit the 'remedy sought' by means of the 'draft' written representation in the way it is presented.

 

What you have to do is check what you put in the 'remedy' section at part 4 of your application made to the Chamber...... you are welcome to post up what you said if you want me to have a look at it for you to see if I can identify where there may be an issue???

 

My only concern is I remember saying you were looking for a 'decision in principle'......that may also have something to do with the response you received????

 

Without more..... I cannot truly begin to see what needs to be done to assist further....

 

Let me know your thoughts?

 

Apple

 

I've just caught up we have already discussed this and from that discussion I made a request for an amendment for which I have a receipt from the PC. I made telephone inquiries regarding amendments and they advised to email them with assurance that amendments would be considered by their legal team. My email is as follows (after removal of personal info). It looks as though they may have overlooked the amendment or that processing the document did not catch up. Either way I will email them again and notify them of the apparent discrepancy (for which I will receive another receipt). This amendment includes the omissions from my original application.

 

 

To whom it may concern,

I called today to discuss making amendment to my recent application regarding property title [title number removed] submitted 03/09/2013 and acknowledged by [name removed]. Today I spoke with [name removed] by telephone who advised I submit a written request for your consideration.I request an amendment to the original Remedy as I was not aware at the time of submitting the application that it was within the Chamber's jurisdiction pursuant to paragraph 1 (b) of Schedule 8 LRA 2002 to indemnify for loss by reason of a mistake whose correction would involve rectification of the register.

 

In light of this I wish to amend my original remedy to:

 

"i. To set aside NRAM's purported mortgage deed as used to grant and register a charge on the property pursuant to section 108 (2) LRA 2002 ii. Order the removal of the charge created in (i) from the property title register . The applicant also seeks remedy by way of an order within the provisions of the Chamber's jurisdiction pursuant to section 108 (2)(a) LRA 2002 and to paragraph 5 (a) of Schedule 4 to the LRA 2002 subject to the application satisfying the additional requirements set out in paragraph 6 (2) of schedule 4 to the LRA 2002 for indemnity and consequential damages for all money claimed by the respondent to which it was not entitled by law from the date of the first mortgage payment up to and any including proceeds from sale of the property if a sale should precede the Tribunal's determination and disposal of the case. Due to the extended period of time it has taken the applicant to find a suitable purchaser it is requested that no action is taken (or permitted by the respondent) that may obstruct normal conveyancing of the property and which may cause detriment to the applicant, and it is requested that any sale is enabled to proceed normally and indemnity be applied retrospectively if a determination is made in favor of the applicant and the Chamber deems it appropriate".

 

Yours sincerely,

 

UNRAM

Edited October 3, 2013 by UNRAM

[alisono]

Good afternoon

 

Just spoken with the property chamber as instructed y the Judge, they have told me to tell the Court that this can take as long as a court case, days, weeks or months.

 

I also look at my mortgage deed that SPML sent me and it actually says Land Registry Official Copy, this copy may not be same size as original.

[p.j]

Hi PJ

 

Then, you may find you have the same outcome as Alisono...... you are likely to find that you are requested to file a defence also.......

 

I will ask the site team to send you a copy of the defence that I have put together for Alisono..... you will need to adapt it slightly to your situation...if that is ok?

 

Apple

 

hi apple that would be great thank you very much..

 

pj

Edited October 3, 2013 by p.j
spelling

[p.j]

Good afternoon

 

Just spoken with the property chamber as instructed y the Judge, they have told me to tell the Court that this can take as long as a court case, days, weeks or months.

 

I also look at my mortgage deed that SPML sent me and it actually says Land Registry Official Copy, this copy may not be same size as original.

 

hi alisono mine says the same. but is official copy.

 

pj