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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed


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[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi UNRAM

 

You may re-call that I referred you to the case of "HILMI".......that is where I have been able to source the information....

 

See.....The Law Commissions Consultation Paper on the Execution of Deeds and Documents by or on behalf of Bodies Corporate, Consultation Paper 143 (1996), para 2.2 and 2.3

 

It was referred to by the Judge in deciding the case in HILMI & Associates Ltd v 20 PEMBRIDGE VILLAS FREEHOLD LIMITED [2010] EWCA Civ 314 at para 29

 

Hope this helps?

 

Apple

 

Are there any other court cases to reinforce the principle? Surely this issue came up before 2010?

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Are there any other court cases to reinforce the principle? Surely this issue came up before 2010?

 

Hi UNRAM

 

I'm sure there will be and it will have done....but for present purposes....I believe 'HILMI' will suffice.....

 

There is no need to bombard the Lender and the courts with every single piece of case law that you can get your hands on......

 

The Chamber already are considering 'Gargillo' and 'Bibby'.....and reference to the RRO.....

 

The combined effect of the three should make a difference to the outcome for all Borrowers.....

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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....Just to follow on......it is not the finding that the HILMI Case was not decided until 2010 that is significant per se..... the significance in that case is that in 2010 the Judge relied on the report of the Law commission that was way before 2010.....

 

So.....the principle is the principle regardless of when one needs to rely on it....

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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I have to pop off the forum for now.......due to other commitments.....but, do post any queries as usual.... I will pick up on them anyway : )

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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The Law Commissions Consultation Paper on the Execution of Deeds and Documents by or on behalf of Bodies Corporate, Consultation Paper 143 (1996)

http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...nsultation.pdf

 

2.2 The law of England and Wales makes an important distinction between instruments which are executed in “solemn form” as deeds, and other instruments which are generally referred to as being in “simple form” under hand.1 Where the instrument is a contract, this is recognised by the distinction made between a contract executed as a deed, which is a specialty, and an instrument under hand, which is a simple contract.

 

2.5 It will be seen that at common law, all deeds were documents under seal.6 Hence contracts executed in solemn form were and are still commonly referred to as “contracts under seal”.

 

11.6 [section omitted] A deed is an instrument in solemn form. Such an instrument (or, depending on how the term “specialty” is used, any obligation contained in it) is a specialty because it is in solemn form.[section omitted] A contract which is executed by an individual as a deed (that is by attested signature), and which makes it clear on its face that it is intended to be a deed, will therefore be both a deed and a specialty.

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http://lawcommission.justice.gov .uk/...nsultation.pdf

 

What is required for delivery?

 

6.2 Originally, delivery was the physical act of handing the deed over to the other party, or instructing him to take it up, but the matter is now essentially a question of the intention of the maker of the deed. A deed is delivered in law “as soon as there are acts or words sufficient to [show] that it is intended by the party to be executed as his deed presently binding on him”, and even though that party retains possession of the document.1 It does not matter whether this intention is actually communicated to the other party, so long as it is shown by some sufficient act or words.

 

The mortgage deed I signed only says "signed as a deed" not "executed as a deed"... I've checked T&C's... Nothing anywhere about intention to execute a deed.

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God Apple having time off as WELL as tea! what next LOL

 

I agree fully with your posts 1567 and 1573 when you hand documents in get them to stamp them and at NO time just leave them there, as in our case the WHOLE file went missing for two months!

I also agree that posters SHOULD be able to do PM for their defence papers BEFORE going to court with them so any problems could be dealt with, as you and I knew there are more solicitors , there staff and all and sundry looking at these threads now and for us to go this far with this is some thing no one not even me thought off.

Al, then you had in your papers you will not get a hearing date there and then they will give it to the judge to look at and he or she could just give an order to adjured until six months or what ever, but if not don't worry I'll come along, just let me know.

Do you know who the agent was for the other side?

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God Apple having time off as WELL as tea! what next LOL

 

I agree fully with your posts 1567 and 1573 when you hand documents in get them to stamp them and at NO time just leave them there, as in our case the WHOLE file went missing for two months!

I also agree that posters SHOULD be able to do PM for their defence papers BEFORE going to court with them so any problems could be dealt with, as you and I knew there are more solicitors , there staff and all and sundry looking at these threads now and for us to go this far with this is some thing no one not even me thought off.

Al, then you had in your papers you will not get a hearing date there and then they will give it to the judge to look at and he or she could just give an order to adjured until six months or what ever, but if not don't worry I'll come along, just let me know.

Do you know who the agent was for the other side?

 

Im happy to set up a google docs or similar facility and we can share the passcode through CAG if document sharing is going to become an obstacle...

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God Apple having time off as WELL as tea! what next LOL

 

I agree fully with your posts 1567 and 1573 when you hand documents in get them to stamp them and at NO time just leave them there, as in our case the WHOLE file went missing for two months!

I also agree that posters SHOULD be able to do PM for their defence papers BEFORE going to court with them so any problems could be dealt with, as you and I knew there are more solicitors , there staff and all and sundry looking at these threads now and for us to go this far with this is some thing no one not even me thought off.

Al, then you had in your papers you will not get a hearing date there and then they will give it to the judge to look at and he or she could just give an order to adjured until six months or what ever, but if not don't worry I'll come along, just let me know.

Do you know who the agent was for the other side?

 

hi is it me i agree with you on the pm to many eyes now looking i could do with your help to i have never been to court for this kind of situtation..i handed my first lot of papers in they wouldn't stamp them as received they just said your on camera handing the envelope over so when i hand in my defence this week i will double check the judge got them i will carry another copy just incase.

 

pj

e-petition is live please sign it.. unlawful repossessions..!!!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56915

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PJ,

 

No that's not right, if you hand them in and ask for your copy's to be stamped they HAVE to do it.

No prob with help where are you ?

 

hi is it me thanks thats good to know i am in nottingham.i did insist on them stamping them and giving me a receipt of hand delivery they just kept on saying your on camera theres your proof.

 

pj.

e-petition is live please sign it.. unlawful repossessions..!!!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56915

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hello CAG whats the policy regarding allowing people to share information privately. is CAG against this?

 

Why can you not post documents on the open forum?

 

One major point is that you never know who you are dealing with off forum despite what they may appear to be on the open forum.

 

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It didn't refer to anyone.

With an anonymous forum you never know who anybody is.

 

Unless my name birth name is UNRAM (pretty as it might be its not) then that's what this is and that not topic of discussion which is private messaging on public forums.

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got my letter back from the tribunal and its good to go they have excepted the case and given me documents to serve on the lender.

 

its says send a copy of my application plus a copy of the order to them and the court.

 

am off to sort it asap.

 

p.j

e-petition is live please sign it.. unlawful repossessions..!!!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56915

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PJ

Thats good news yes HAND the copy in to the court with a letter just asking if the matter could be adjourned until the tribunal hearing

well done.

 

yes good news is it me off to get it handed in they want proof of delivery and proof of sending to lender.

 

pj

e-petition is live please sign it.. unlawful repossessions..!!!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56915

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yes good news is it me off to get it handed in they want proof of delivery and proof of sending to lender.

 

pj

 

When did u send off your application pj?

 

Is it me? Has your application been accepted despite your lender's attempt to strike it out?

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