Anney63 v Abbey *** WON ***

[GaryH]

GaryH, I hate to contradict you here but you can claim time for preparing your court bundles

 

No problem, I don't mind being corrected. In this case though, I believe I was right. Bundle preparation time does fall within the scope of the SCT no costs rule and cannot be claimed. However, if you actually go to court and win your claim then you have every right to ask the judge for it and it can be awarded at the courts discretion. This view was re-enforced by a conversation I had with the judge in my non-compliance claim. I included prep time as the monetary part of the claim, and upon obtaining the judgement was told that it was costs and I had no entitlement to claim it. He did actually award it in the end though, but I think that was out of sheer annoyance at Abbey's non-attendance!

[ANNALH]

Hi Anney,

 

Abbey rang me to offer to settle my claim just 2 days before the hearing. As i had recently spent a day printing hundreds of pages for the court bundle i told Inga I wanted an additional £25 for an ink cartridge and £200 for my time (20 hours at £10 per hour). She didnt argue and agreed to pay it immediately.

So go for it. They will settle before going to court.

 

Anna

 

If you think I have been helpful please click my scales!

[GaryH]

You can ask for it by all means. If they were to refuse however, and you pursued it to court solely for the costs aspect, your could be looking at a very angry judge and a possible costs award against you.

[Lula]

No problem, I don't mind being corrected. In this case though, I believe I was right. Bundle preparation time does fall within the scope of the SCT no costs rule and cannot be claimed. However, if you actually go to court and win your claim then you have every right to ask the judge for it and it can be awarded at the courts discretion. This view was re-enforced by a conversation I had with the judge in my non-compliance claim. I included prep time as the monetary part of the claim, and upon obtaining the judgement was told that it was costs and I had no entitlement to claim it. He did actually award it in the end though, but I think that was out of sheer annoyance at Abbey's non-attendance!

 

gary, Thompson web site seems to disagree slightly

 

f you win, there are certain costs you can claim. These include: • Any court fees you have paid

• An amount of not more than £50 per day each for you and any witnesses you may have for loss of earnings due to attending the court hearing

• Any additional travelling and overnight expenses

• Costs for use of an expert up to a maximum of £200

• The party’s own and any witnesses’ expenses in attending court, for example, fares and accommodation.

• Costs ordered by the judge if one of the parties behaved in an unreasonable way

Remember if you have had the opportunity to settle this out of court and haven’t, you may not get your costs back, even if you win your case.

Costs will not be awarded by the court unless the successful party asks for them. This should be done when the judge is giving judgment. If there has not been a hearing, the successful party will need to write to the court asking for costs.

If a claim for more than £5000 is allocated to the small claims track, the winning party will be able to claim costs including solicitors' costs against the losing party.

[GaryH]

....which in turn seems to be contradicted by the CPR governing costs on SCT -

 

PART 27 - THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK

 

note 27.14 (5) in particular

[Lula]

Well at the end of the day we can quote all manner of rules that can be found on the web, the fact of the matter is that you can claim and if Abbey offer to settle and you ask for your costs then they will pay, and if you ask for them in court, chances are that you will get them also, although I suspect that this depends on the DJ's mood on that particular day, having said that the judiciary seem to be pretty miffed with banks, so are likely to awad costs

[GaryH]

Well at the end of the day we can quote all manner of rules that can be found on the web,

Except the only set of rules that are ultimately relevant is the CPR - thats what governs all civil actions.

the fact of the matter is that you can claim and if Abbey offer to settle and you ask for your costs then they will pay, and if you ask for them in court, chances are that you will get them also,

Actually, the fact of the matter is that costs cannot be claimed on the small claims track.

 

As I said previously, of course you can request them by all means - if Abbey pay up then great, everybody's happy. If they don't however, and you pursue to court solely for the costs aspect, then the only costs that will be awarded will be against you - for 'unreasonable behaviour'.

 

although I suspect that this depends on the DJ's mood on that particular day, having said that the judiciary seem to be pretty miffed with banks, so are likely to awad costs

You could be awarded them in court, yes. But this entirely at the judges discretion - you've no actual entitlement to them whatsoever.

 

I've got no interest in argueing with you Lula, particularly on someone else's thread. This does need to be set straight though as there could be serious implications for claimants if they were to pursue to court for costs they are not entitled to claim.

[bish]

Hi Anney

 

Seem to have started something here, my own perspective on the costs point is that, the banks do not want to go into a court room, and the courts would love to get a case into court room. So who has the courage to go their, some one over the £5k mark who may then get allocated to fast track or mercantile. As the banks will not enter the court enviroment, and costs are decided at the end of a case, my belief is that you could in theory, and under the right circumstances put in a rediculouse claim for costs and get paid out. Who wants to take the risk. Not me, but I will be putting in a claim for expences if the try to settle.

 

Regards bish.

[anney63]

Hi Again

Rang the court this morning to see if any new on directions. Case has been to judge and just waiting to be allocated a date so new soon. The womwn at the court was not in a good mood stated it should be mys son calling as he is the claimant. I explained that it was on my AQ that I wish to represent him, she then said that this would not be aloud as I was not a solicitor. I was somewhat taken aback as I was a credit manager and berfore that a credit controller and I was allowed to represent the people I was working for. Can I note represent him as a lay person ??? HELP i'm hoping it won't need to happen but a bit annoyed that nobody has said a word when I have taken things in the court.

ANNEY :confused:

[Michael Browne]

I explained that it was on my AQ that I wish to represent him, she then said that this would not be aloud as I was not a solicitor.

She's wrong, see here:

Small claims track

 

Other courts,equally wrongly, have said the claimant has to file an N244 application.

In fact all your son have to do is turn up on the day and explain that he wishes you to represent him. The judge does have the discretion to refuse, but it would be exceptional for that to happen

[anney63]

Thanks Michael

I have sent a copy to the court so that they don't make the same mistake again. It was quite off putting and new that she was wrong but she wasn't giving in.

[GaryH]

The overwhelming majority of court staff are excellent, but unfortunately you do get the odd one or two who have idea's above their station and think they know more than they actually do. They're only office workers at the end of the day, they don't get any form of legal training. For her to tell you that was misleading and grossly unproffesional - not to mention, as MB has already pointed out, completely wrong.

[anney63]

Just looked at some of my spelling it is atrocious I'm not really that thick. I was at work and rushing that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

[GaryH]

Join the club - in fact I bet mine's worse!

[bish]

Hi Anney,

 

The guys have put your mind at rest so no need to add to what they have already said. The main thing to keep in mind is that you or your son will not likely have to attend court anyway, other than perhaps an allocation hearing, so take no notice of someone who obviously is in the wrong job.

 

Regards bish.

[sainsbury boy]

i just want to know how to sue my abbey bank? because they have been charging me for the past year and a half now. how do i go about it?

[anney63]

I would really advise that you read the FAQ's first and foremost and perhaps digest some of the older threads . I just did nothing but read and read until I had the confidence to know exactly what to do at each stage. It's well worth the time in the end.

:)

[anney63]

Hi All

You really are not going to believe this. I phoned the court today and was told the file had been sent back to the judge again as I had sent an e mail . The mail I sent was to send a copy off the HMCO website showing that anyone can speak for you in court as they had said I couldn't speak for my son. Why on earth would that need to go to the judge it was only to show that they had misinformed me. Another week wasted. I can't believe they didn't read the mail properly .

:mad:

[Andys Mum]

Hi Anney, Thanks for your info. I replied to you thru my own thread, that's was probably not right, but if you pck it up you will see my reply there.

Since then I have looked at your thread, very interesting and lots of info. You are farther ahead than me so I've picked up a couple of bits. My experience with the local court has been really good so far.

I hope they let me do the court thing, as getting my son there will be very difficult mainly because of work committments and I don't want any more holdups (and sleepless nights).

As they say watch this space. Keep in touch

Bren

[bish]

Hi Anney

 

Bloody typical, frustration is par for the course i'm afraid. Lets hope that the delay is only short. Best wishes.

 

Regards bish.

[anney63]

Hi Again

Just received mail from court re me speaking for my son this is what it states:-

On Feb 12 2007, Turner, Sophie wrote:

 

Dear Mrs Youngman,

 

I refer to your email dated 5th February 2007. The extract from the website

to which you refer, applies to cases allocated to the Small Claim Track.

This claim is over £5000 and is therefore not a small claim. The District

Judge has in fact allocated the case to the Fast Track, and an order will be

sent to you in due course.

 

However, the file was referred back to the District Judge with your query,

who has stated that this is a Fast Track case. The District Judge has stated

that you may accompany him to the hearing as it is a public hearing. The

District Judge has also stated that the Claimant should attend.

 

Regards

 

Sophie

So Fast Track for me . My son would have been coming anyway now I am beginning to get nervous. Directions haven't arrived yet. Did get a fax at work re bank charges asking you to dial an 0906 number to get details of how to claim. What Next !!!!

Wll Be Back with Directions should be on their way.

:(

[bish]

Hi Anney,

 

Good news for me, and now time for good news for you. Fast track, abbey won't like that as automatic disclosure, so they will not comply with the directions I am sure you will get in your case. So you win by default or they will will settle soon. Up to you to contact them and try and get a settlement, if it is not to your liking hold out for the full whack. It will come as I am sure the judge will give directions for full disclosure, its then just a matter of waiting for abbey not to comply. The other plus point is you can get costs as well. Get the court bundle together as I am sure you have already and work out your costs, I have seen £9.25 per hour for 50 hours work plus ink, paper, traveling costs sundries etc. Put this in with talks with abbey it may just sway it your way. Still put it in with your claim if they try it on and do not settle if you are not happy with their offer. Just hang on in there, they will not walk into a court so you will not have to.

 

Regards bish.

[anney63]

Thanks Bish

Enjoy yopur evening your certainly deserve and my good wishes to your other half I'm sure her health will improve even quicker with this news.

Anney:D

[anney63]

Hi All

Jus a little up date still not received directions and court date but know it's fast track , so I thought right I will send a quick mail to Inga and see if shge wants to settle (In Full of Cours) I also advised her I would be claiming for preparation time as well. Well she mailed back and asked for my schedule although it had been sent with prelim LBA AQ and county Court Claim. Neverless this morning faxed over rang at 3.30pm to see if she had received it firstly she said no and then said hold on I will check the fax and bingo it was there , she then said she would look at it straight away so I may be lucky but we'll see. I have court bundle all ready in Lever Arch file ready to send by courier when the time comes, so at least I'm ready just can't wait fro directions ,the sooner this is finished the better I have a couple more to do for my grandaughter. Not tehn Abbey this time. Keeps the mind active

ANNEY

[barney982]

I have emailed Inga and James and they never reply!