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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Rundle Bailiffs excessive on Council tax. Someone please help


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I have asked the council in several emails and letters for the original bills and liability orders. I am quite at a loss as to what to do, as they keep ignoring all letters. I don't know if the new letter, which isn't an enquiry but appeal will make a difference. Any advice in to forcing them to handing over the information?

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Hello,

 

Have you spoken to your local Councillor?

He/ she is there to represent you in your dealings with the Council, and will want your vote at the next election.

Some Councillors are a waste of space but most take their reponsibilities very seriuously.

 

Martin g

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, I am back so it has been like 8 days since I have sent a letter both to council and bailiffs asking for a refund.... But no response. I don't know what to do now. Do I wait a couple more days because it's still good as Christmas period?

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Hi, I am back so it has been like 8 days since I have sent a letter both to council and bailiffs asking for a refund.... But no response. I don't know what to do now. Do I wait a couple more days because it's still good as Christmas period?

I would give them until Tuesday, then chase it up

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Ok, latest news.

Some good news, from the original bill after being threatened with the valuation tribunal,

the council looked again at it.

 

They reduced the bill because of evidence that my mother wasn't living there in 2006 and also applied the single persons discount. They refunded back £278.

 

The bad news is, the bailiffs haven't responded back to the appeal for the excessive charges, which was sent on 28th December.

 

The question is what do I do now that the bailiffs haven't replied back with a refund?

 

One of the liability order which they originally said was for 2009, applies to 2006-2007, even though it was only for a £27.50,

the bailiff charges were £ 177,

according to the council she has been cleared for owing anything on this debt.

 

Does the new information change anything with the bailiff?

 

On the other liability order for £488, they did reduction, so I guess bailiff charges still stand but was still over charged grossly.

 

If anyone has been following this thread, thank for for your help. I am going to keep fight for my mother, but I still need your help and I am whole heartedly grateful!

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The Bailiffs have replied and said they can charge me twice for two different liability order on the same day, they are saying that Lewisham council has said it's legal for them to do that? Is there any law to back this up?????

 

Just as you said, that idiot bailiff picked a random car and put a levy on a random car, lucky enough in the appeal letter I explain my mother doesn't have a car, nor driving licence. They say they are doing a dvla search.

 

It looks like they are doing everything thing in their power to pay as little back!

 

The council sent a reductions letter giving my mother an exemption on council tax from Oct 2005 and onwards.... Does this mean the liability order taken out in 2006/2007 is now invalid and could use that to claim back any charges on the second liability dated 2006/2007 order, the bailiffs are are trying to put excessive charges on?

 

I have put an attachment of first the Council tax appeal reduction letter and The Bailiff reply to my appeal letter.

 

Totally clueless. Once again, thanks in advance!

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Seems to me like the usual twaddle the Councils produce. Does this mean your accounts are now clear and actually in credit?

 

As for Rundle's saying they have agreed with the Council to charge multiple fees then you should make a formal complaint about this to the Council in particular reminding them of the various LGO Reports that say otherwise. Have a look here for them http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?374293-Local-Government-Ombudsman-Report-on-Councils-and-Bailiffs

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That reply on headed Bumbles & Co paper is prima facie an own goal, as they have admitted in writing overcharging and misrepresenting the position, as per PT formal Complaint quoting the relevant LGO cases within should do it. Remember to copy it to CEO, Leader and MP.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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That reply on headed Bumbles & Co paper is prima facie an own goal, as they have admitted in writing overcharging and misrepresenting the position, as per PT formal Complaint quoting the relevant LGO cases within should do it. Remember to copy it to CEO, Leader and MP.

 

In theory their reply is correct, it is the LGO that has ruled this to be unfair/oppressive on several occasions now.

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In theory their reply is correct, it is the LGO that has ruled this to be unfair/oppressive on several occasions now.

Thanks PT, you are of course quite correct but the cases are persuasive as to it not being equitable to apply charges in this manner, as caselaw would indicate it is wrong as per Throssel V Leeds CC, and the LGO Blaby Council report

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thanks for replies Ladies and Gents, greatly appreciated!

 

Hmmm, so by the sounds of it the council will agree with the bailiffs and the only way for me to try and get the money back is by complaining to someone like a financial ombudsman e.t.c

 

Yes, she is in credit with the council and as I said was cleared of most of the debt she was given the liability order by.

 

I will check that other thread out. I am getting the feeling this is going to get complicated. But I will write to the council again and mention that they cleared me of the debt they are double charging me for?

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One thing to remember is that in a majority of Councils none of the "officials" have any idea at all how these things work. Instead they rely on their whiter than white Bailiffs to answer the questions for them - after all they are the experts - aren't they?

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Woofy I don't know if you have read it but here is the LGO report on Blaby Council -http://www.lgo.org.uk/news/2012/jul/blaby-council-criticised-bailiff-charges/

 

The Report stated that though legally bailiffs had been able to charge 3 separate visit fees if they had 3 separate L/Os, if they were all delivered on the same visit then that was

felt to be unfair and the practice had to be stopped forthwith and only one charge made.

As the Council should know that already [and for sure the bailiffs know!] you could write and ask the Council if a ruling by the LGO on Blaby Council had any effect on the way that

bailiffs carried out their work for Lewisham Council?

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  • 3 months later...

it has been a few months and still fighting to get my money back from Rundles.

 

i sent a letter to appeal against their charges and they sent a letter back saying the levy is under investigation with the DVLA.

 

They sent a letter back saying that it was negative and the charges have been removed and it is now paid in full.

 

I asked when they were going to pay back the levy charges we paid to them and additional charges.

 

Their response on the phone was the account was paid in full and charges have been removed?????

 

So they don't owe use anything....

 

What the hell does that mean.

 

... I already paid these charges and now i want my money back because I paid for them.

 

They said we have to send a letter to tell them we aren't happy?????

 

I have already sent a letter to appeal against the charges...

 

. Their response was in my favour.

 

it's like they found in our favour digitally and the case is closed.

 

 

Can someone please give me advice.

 

I have already contact the council

 

they sent a letter finding in the bailiffs favour,

 

this was before the dvla search came back negative.

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