Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Traffic Offence fine not mine


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4214 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I need some advise.

 

I sold a car two months ago and have received the new owners traffic offence fine they committed. I have return the paper work stating I sold they car but its been rejected, stating I have not supplied any evidence for proof of sale. I have appeal it this and my appeal is next month.

 

When I sold the car I signed the V5 log book but gave it to the new owner to sign,it was a present of this wife and so she couldn't sign it for me to post it off there are then. Unfortunately they signed and sent off the V5 2 weeks later, stating it was sold then, after the fine was issued.

 

I have written to the DVLA stating the date of sale is incorrect and asked for it to be changed. Technically I have no other proof I didn't own the car when the offence was committed. The new owner has refused to accept liability, has not paid the fine even though I have contacted them and sent them the paper work.

 

All I have is a letter from the DVLA with a copy of the V5 with my signature backing my version of events, and a few txt messages from the new owner agreeing the price of sale. The car was advertise on Ebay, he didn't win but contacted me within 5 minutes of the end asking to buy it, so i have a record of this, just no actual receipt on the day.

 

What are my chances of winning this case if the DVLA do not update they records to prove I was not the owner?

 

Should I cut my losses and pay the **** bags £130 fine, I am so :mad2::mad2: ****ed off about this!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you print off the ebay correspondence then a really good chance. I'm assuming you did your talking after the sale through ebay as well.

Get everything you can into a bundle so you can submit it.

 

See, another case of 'I don't care who done it, I just want the money', all government departments act this way now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How did he pay? If it was cash, I don't suppose you have a bank statement to show that you put a large sum of cash into your account a day or two later?

 

I suggest you opt for a personal hearing with the adjudicator if it's practical; in the absence of indisputable evidence it may come down to your credibility, and turning up in person and coming across as honest can count for a lot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you cancel your insurance or notify your insurance company of the change of vehicle on the day of the sale ?

Where was the offence committed ? Can you prove you were elsewhere at the time in question ?

 

Depending on your answers, these could be evidence in your favour.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A bit late now, but I assume it is the responsibility of the old keeper, yourself, to send off the V5 and not the new keeper which prevents this sort of thing happening. For all you know the car could have been used in a bank robbery in the meantime. Also what other tickets are going to make their appearance or even bailiffs visiting. Can you prove that you were elsewhere on the day in question? Do you have a bill of sale signed by both parties?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you cancel your insurance or notify your insurance company of the change of vehicle on the day of the sale ?

Where was the offence committed ? Can you prove you were elsewhere at the time in question ?

 

Depending on your answers, these could be evidence in your favour.

 

I did cancel my car insurance a week before the sale, because that's when I picked up my new car. So no nothing to show it happen on the day.

 

The offense was committed by the owner driving through a no entry bus only lane. It happen 3 days after I sold the car.

 

Regarding the proof of where I was at the time is not that relevant, the owner/registered keep is responsible for all tickets apparently.

 

I have written to the DVLA's sensitive case department explaining the issue, they will get back to me in a few weeks, hopefully with the letter stating the corrected exchange of ownership. If they don't do this before the appeal I will write to the adjudicator and postpone one more time the hearing until I'm ready with my evidence.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How did he pay? If it was cash, I don't suppose you have a bank statement to show that you put a large sum of cash into your account a day or two later?

 

I suggest you opt for a personal hearing with the adjudicator if it's practical; in the absence of indisputable evidence it may come down to your credibility, and turning up in person and coming across as honest can count for a lot.

 

I have arranged a personal hearing for this reason as currently my evidence is thin on the ground. The car was paid with cash so no bank transaction.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you print off the ebay correspondence then a really good chance. I'm assuming you did your talking after the sale through ebay as well.

Get everything you can into a bundle so you can submit it.

 

See, another case of 'I don't care who done it, I just want the money', all government departments act this way now.

 

Not quite, he didn't win the auction, he failed to meet the reserve. The sale was done outside of Ebay, thus avoiding Ebay transaction fee's (would be worth it now I know!). I do have text message immediate after the auction ended asking what the reserve was and how much I wanted for the car. Also 3 text message on the day he bought the car asking for directions etc. But again nothing in the text to say "Thank you for the car I am happy to have purchased such a fine car on this date xzy". So nothing solid to show he bought the car on that day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not quite, he didn't win the auction, he failed to meet the reserve. The sale was done outside of Ebay, thus avoiding Ebay transaction fee's (would be worth it now I know!). I do have text message immediate after the auction ended asking what the reserve was and how much I wanted for the car. Also 3 text message on the day he bought the car asking for directions etc. But again nothing in the text to say "Thank you for the car I am happy to have purchased such a fine car on this date xzy". So nothing solid to show he bought the car on that day.

 

Since the auction is under 90 days old and you were the seller, you should be able to pull the bidders details - even if the highest didn't actually win. Since the auction site also allows personal detail to be shared once somebody has bid in the link below

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/ebayadvsearch/?_sofindtype=9

 

you can use the date of the auction and the info to confirm the car was for sale at the time, if not transferred to another person shortly after.

 

The fact the buyer was bidding on your vehicle does show he was interested before the offences were committed, which helps your case. If the same phone number appears on both the auction 'contact info' detail and your phone, then you have confirmation the same person was in contact with you after auction end, which wouldn't be the case if he was compeletely unrelated to the cars sale, and subsequent history.

 

It's not 100%, but does get you somewhere further.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the proof of where I was at the time is not that relevant, the owner/registered keep is responsible for all tickets apparently.

You're correct that the owner (wo is not necessarily the registered keeper) is liable for parking tickets, so no the fact that you were somewhere else isn't in itself enough to get you off. But when it comes to proving that you did indeed sell it when you say you did, it would help if you can show that you and your wife were elsewhere at the time - so who else would have been driving it but the mystery buyer? Every little helps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not quite, he didn't win the auction, he failed to meet the reserve. The sale was done outside of Ebay, thus avoiding Ebay transaction fee's (would be worth it now I know!). I do have text message immediate after the auction ended asking what the reserve was and how much I wanted for the car. Also 3 text message on the day he bought the car asking for directions etc. But again nothing in the text to say "Thank you for the car I am happy to have purchased such a fine car on this date xzy". So nothing solid to show he bought the car on that day.

 

Serves you right really for selling off ebay after using their site to get a buyer, they are not a charity its a business when you sign up you agree to their terms and conditions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really see it as an ebay issue at all, although they might be able to provide information about the bidder. I think the fact remains that it is the Keeper's responsibility to notify the DVLA of the sale and as such you would remain liable for any penalties or fines issued until it is taken out of your name. Even if you didn't have the V5 you could have sent them a letter with the details and date of sale. If you don't hear back within 4 weeks then it is still your responsibility to follow up and make sure the DVLA received the details. You should always create an invoice/receipt for a car sale, even if it's just a couple of lines in Word.

 

I hope you do get enough info to help with your appeal, but if not you may have to chalk it up to a lesson learned.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Serves you right really for selling off ebay after using their site to get a buyer, they are not a charity its a business when you sign up you agree to their terms and conditions.

 

Dont be a fool, the advert costs £20 to list. You really are misinformed, back in your box.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the auction is under 90 days old and you were the seller, you should be able to pull the bidders details - even if the highest didn't actually win. Since the auction site also allows personal detail to be shared once somebody has bid in the link below

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/ebayadvsearch/?_sofindtype=9

 

you can use the date of the auction and the info to confirm the car was for sale at the time, if not transferred to another person shortly after.

 

The fact the buyer was bidding on your vehicle does show he was interested before the offences were committed, which helps your case. If the same phone number appears on both the auction 'contact info' detail and your phone, then you have confirmation the same person was in contact with you after auction end, which wouldn't be the case if he was compeletely unrelated to the cars sale, and subsequent history.

 

It's not 100%, but does get you somewhere further.

 

Excellent advice, I now have an email from Ebay linking the highest bidder of my car to the address of the buyer. Useful evidence for me, cheers for that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent advice, I now have an email from Ebay linking the highest bidder of my car to the address of the buyer. Useful evidence for me, cheers for that.

 

The phone number is more important than the contact address as it provides you with proof of the text messages and therefore the day the new owner made plans to come and see/collect the car.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...