new universal credit

[count orlok]

Why should how you became disabled matter? I thought disability benefits were based on how your disability affects you, not why you're disabled.

 

They should be, and still are, but when PIP is introduced things will change. The government brought in the military charter when it was realised many of the disabled who would lose out were from the services.

 

I am pretty sure if they could have vilified the soldiers in same way as they have most disabled, they too would be losing out big time.

 

As I have said soldiers should not lose out, but should not be made a special case all disabled should be decently treated.

[Nystagmite]

This could be classed as discrimination - the government are treating soldiers more favourably than civilians.

[debt4get]

thats an interesting position Nys, unfortunately it isn't this n*zy parties position, we are all in for a very hard time, which is only going to get worse over time

[osdset]

This could be classed as discrimination - the government are treating soldiers more favourably than civilians.

 

Yes it could be viewed under that light, but I would not think it would lead anywhere, public opinion and all that.

[count orlok]

Trouble is you can't expect soldiers to go and fight for the country, but not guarantee than the support they need if they are injured.

 

But on the same tack you shouldn't expect "ordinary" people to pay into a insurance scheme to support they need if they are injured, and them not pay out.

 

I think this thread is drifting off topic, it's supposed to be on UC which is a bit of a non starter as, as already been pointed out it is neither Universal or credit.

[Nystagmite]

Going back the OP. How is it "credit"? It's benefits which ever way you look at it...

[osdset]

Going back the OP. How is it "credit"? It's benefits which ever way you look at it...

More IDS nonsense, he can't say benefit without choking.

[Lilly_Monroe]

Why do we have to try to decide whether to equate them? Going down the route of deserving, less deserving and undiserving is buying into the condem's style of propoganda.

 

Is someone who suffers emotional problems due to repeated rape as a child by a family member, more or less able to deal with the 'battle' of retaining benefits.

 

What about someone who suffers with schizophrenia and paranoia and has to battle daily with these issues with trying to battle to keep their benefits.

 

Other people get PTSD and lose limbs from traumatic experiences not in a war zone - is their PTSD and 'battle' to keep benefits less deserving of empathy, because it wasn't sustained in a war zone.

 

I could go on and on. No one can judge another person's pain, trauma or ability to deal with difficulties that come along. A soldier who has lost a leg and has PTSD with a loving supportive family, may be better able to cope than the single 53 year old woman with arthritis who has the beginnings of early onset alzheimers - personally I think both situations are a tragedy, and both are deserving of the help and support they need.

 

ETA: this type of black and white thinking of ranking the deserving is what is leading to increasing intolerance and hatred in our society. It happens with lots of things, religion, class, wealth, ethnicity. People look at a surface characteristic and make a judgement about them, or a judgement about what they deserve or how hard things are for them.

 

 

Well said could not agree more.

Neither should it be just about the injury/condition what ever - personal circumstances should be taken into account (I know they never will be) but what one person can cope with because of perhaps help from friends and family, another person may find impossible.

 

We are all individual (not that, that matters to IDS ).

I have compassion, for anyone who suffers, however they arrived at that destination, of course I give great respect to soldier, but illness should be a level playing field, and not pitching one off against the other.

Lilly.

[worried33]

Trouble is you can't expect soldiers to go and fight for the country, but not guarantee than the support they need if they are injured.

 

But on the same tack you shouldn't expect "ordinary" people to pay into a insurance scheme to support they need if they are injured, and them not pay out.

 

I think this thread is drifting off topic, it's supposed to be on UC which is a bit of a non starter as, as already been pointed out it is neither Universal or credit.

 

yes the several years I paid NI I did my end of he contract, will the government bail out of their end?

[debt4get]

mastercard matthew mayo lobbying for benefit payments under u/c to be put on their cards to block spending and cultivate 'healthy habits' you couldnt make it up...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19792066

[debt4get]

and labours take on it

Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, an aide to shadow health secretary Andy Burnham, said she backed the idea, in principle, of using pre-paid benefit cards to encourage people to make healthy eating choices by offering discounts on fruit and vegetables, for example.

[Nystagmite]

And how much is this going to cost? Due to dietary requirements, some of us requirement some more expensive food. By having cash, I can go wherever I want and spend however much is needed. Yet, with vouchers I can only go certain places and can only spend a certain amount.

[Minibits]

Soylent Green, anyone?

[estellyn]

mastercard matthew mayo lobbying for benefit payments under u/c to be put on their cards to block spending and cultivate 'healthy habits' you couldnt make it up...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19792066

 

I propose a new card that MP's wages and expenses get paid onto which blocks the purchase of anything the plebs (us) don't approve of them buying.

[debt4get]

it does raise interesting questions though, if the card can only be used for essentials,(and it seems mostly that will consist of food) how if you were on JSA and some of us now live miles from the JCP offices, would you manage to get a bus? or run your vehicle, or get to interviews, run a phone, mobile, internet, printing etc etc

[down'n'out]

Well, of course "Mastercard" would want that, given that they would expect a transaction fee. A few million transaction charges a day soon adds up.

[Nystagmite]

I propose a new card that MP's wages and expenses get paid onto which blocks the purchase of anything the plebs (us) don't approve of them buying.

 

Agreed.

 

And what exactly is an "essential"? You're going to have people on JSA who need to get to interviews, send off CVs, applications, etc. Yet, the person on IS won't need to do this.

[debt4get]

again something ill thought out by a govt that is renowned for ill thought out policy, and u turns

[osdset]

mastercard matthew mayo lobbying for benefit payments under u/c to be put on their cards to block spending and cultivate 'healthy habits' you couldnt make it up...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19792066

 

What alarms Labour politicians is that voters appear to have stopped thinking of benefits as social security - something they pay into for use in hard times - but rather as a charity handout to the poor, and that this will fatally undermine the welfare state.

Don't get so alarmed you feckless idiots, do something for your inflated salaries, try educating the voting public, it's hardly rocket science .

[debt4get]

Don't get so alarmed you feckless idiots, do something for your inflated salaries, try educating the voting public, it's hardly rocket science .

thats a tough ask!! from this brainless lot....

[bigissue]

I'd hate for this to happen. I am on ESA and as I live with family I give the bulk of my benefit over directly to them to pay towards my keep. I have some left over which gets spent on things like supplements (to help my condition), sometimes second hand books, saving up for birthdays and christmas, and the odd luxury for example I have bad skin and I buy decent skincare online to help with that.

 

I do not smoke, drink, take drugs, go to the pub, gamble etc, etc nor do I have any fancy mobile phone ( do have a tablet device bought as a gift for me though, is that allowed?) however I don't even believe it is right to say that just because someone is unemployed they are not allowed a fag or a pint.

[worried33]

do they realise healthy food is also more expensive.

 

salad lasts for a few days before going off and is also prohibitevely expensive.

 

It also seems judging by the bbc's comments that people think everyone on benefits is so out of choice and they can simply get a job if they want anything other than pre defined foods.

 

What next no tv, no phone, no internet, no freedom to use taxis to travel so stuck inside.

 

Yet we have IDS trying to say he wants people on benefits to live a life like working people justifying his monthly payments, yet treated differently on things like food vouchers and lack of independence on how to spend the fincianial income.

 

I expect as always people making such comments havent a clue and have never needed benefits.

 

I also to backup the previous person have no luxuries of note, my tv is 10 years old, furniture 2nd hand except bed and mattress (for hygiene reasons), was using 2nd hand 20 year old fridge till it packed up a month ago, I do have a contract phone but thats because its cheapest for me. Since I have to call for taxis back when I am at the hospital etc. and its cheaper than any landline deal I can get. My contract phone is not a free phone deal, its just a call contract (different thing, £12 a month) the phone itself is low end and an old model. I dont drink or smoke, and my gambling consists of buying £2 lottery tickets a week.

[Nystagmite]

So, you're going to have someone who works and on a low wage. They're going to have their wages as cash and their benefits as vouchers. That's just silly. Some of us (ie, me) receive £x every month made up of more than one benefit. I personally do not say "I have £20.55 DLA mobility; so can only spend that on taxis. If taxis cost more than that, I can't use them". My money is lumped together and I spend it how I see fit.

[LongHairedLily]

Vouchers won't pay for utilty bills, shortfall in HB for rent (soon to be contribution to Council Tax too)....Crazy...I don't spend all my money on food I put aside some for bills ! Won't work and silly man can lobby all he likes.

[estellyn]

Vouchers won't pay for utilty bills, shortfall in HB for rent (soon to be contribution to Council Tax too)....Crazy...I don't spend all my money on food I put aside some for bills ! Won't work and silly man can lobby all he likes.

 

Indeed, we have a £200 a month shortfall in rent due to LHA, (plus an additional shortfall from HB) but can't afford to move (we rented the house when our joint income was in excess of £40K). doubt we could spend 'vouchers' for that.