sold wrong ticket

[christywhisty]

My 16yr old son is going to thorpe park today

He went on the nationrail website last night, chose a journey and bought the ticket to be collected this morning.

He collected the ticket this morning then wasn't allowed to use it as they said it was an off peak ticket and has had to purchase another ticket which was more expensive!

The ticket he bought was from Hertford East to Staines and was about £11 (he has 16-25 railcard) and was getting the 6.58 train from Hertford East . A slight complication was that he was actually getting on at Cheshunt which is a few stops later, but he is returning to Hertford East tonight.

 

There is anomaly in our area is that it is cheaper to travel from Hertford East than Cheshunt into london, although it is further down the track on the same line., so when we buy tickets we always ask for tickets from Hertford East to London and the ticket office are quite happy to sell us those tickets and the barrier normally accepts them.

 

Obviously need to get money back for one of the tickets, what is the best way of going about it.

[firstclassx]

A £10 administrative fee applies to refunds in cases where it is the passengers fault.

 

Therefore, the refund due would be just £1.

 

I wouldn't bother seeing as the cost of postage is about 60p.

 

The ticket isn't valid from Hertford East until 08:39, via Tottenham Hale & Vauxhall.

 

Your son has presumably selected a later service on the site, to get it to show the cheaper fares.

Edited August 14, 2012 by firstclassx

[rebel11]

Hi christy

 

Write a letter, explain whats happened and what you would like them to do. It would be a 'gesture of goodwill' on their part.

 

Send it to:-

 

Greater Anglia

Ruud Haket, Managing Director

Ruud.Haket@greateranglia.co.uk

 

Some tips:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1242161/How--write-letter-complaint.html

 

Let us know what he says.

[firstclassx]

Hi christy

 

Write a letter, explain whats happened and what you would like them to do. It would be a 'gesture of goodwill' on their part.

 

Send it to:-

 

Greater Anglia

Ruud Haket, Managing Director

Ruud.Haket@greateranglia.co.uk

 

Some tips:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1242161/How--write-letter-complaint.html

 

Let us know what he says.

 

I'm not sure why you would even send it to Greater Anglia? It was purchased online, and could have been bought from a selection of companies.

 

ATOC regulations will prohibit Greater Anglia issuing a refund, unless they were the ones that sold the ticket.

[Old-CodJA]

I'm not sure why you would even send it to Greater Anglia? It was purchased online, and could have been bought from a selection of companies.

 

ATOC regulations will prohibit Greater Anglia issuing a refund, unless they were the ones that sold the ticket.

 

 

Technically correct, but this does not stop the company from using their influence to assist in arranging a refund IF they consider it appropriate to do so.

[The Urbanite]

Hi christy

 

Write a letter, explain whats happened and what you would like them to do. It would be a 'gesture of goodwill' on their part.

 

Send it to:-

 

Greater Anglia

Ruud Haket, Managing Director

Ruud.Haket@greateranglia.co.uk

 

Some tips:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1242161/How--write-letter-complaint.html

 

Let us know what he says.

 

The Train Operating Company concerned has a purpose built Customer Relations department. Have you any conclusive evidence that hassling the MD for such petty issues yields any positive results that cannot be sorted by Customer Relations? You seem ever keen to promote this course of action.

[firstclassx]

Fully agree with The Urbanite.

[The Urbanite]

Online journey planners do indeed state that Off Peak Day Returns can be used from Hertford East at 06:58 if travelling to Staines.

 

First Capital Connect price the fare between Hertford Stations and Staines. As such, they manage the definition of Off Peak on that ticket.

 

The time restriction code they decided to apply to this ticket merely contains a list of stations that FCC operate from and a time from which the ticket can be used from each station. Hertford East does not feature in that list, so therefore the ticket can be used at any time from Hertford East.

 

As for the OP, by all means complain to Greater Anglia and press for a refund. This will alert them to the anomaly and it's likely that come January, the anomaly will be corrected so the ticket effectively can't be used on any train which arrives at Liverpool Street before around 10:00.

 

FCC and Greater Anglia (or their predecessors rather) have collaborated on other Off Peak tickets - the Off Peak fares between Hertford and London Terminals have blanket morning peak restrictons for trains arriving into both Kings Cross and Liverpool Street, despite FCC having control of that fare. However, in the case of fares from Hertford to London and the SE that include a Cross London transfer, there has been an oversight which can be very easily corrected.

Edited August 16, 2012 by The Urbanite

[firstclassx]

Restriction Y4 does indeed appear to be "missing" a selection of stations.

That said, I am unable to get National Rail to allow the journey...

[The Urbanite]

Restriction Y4 does indeed appear to be "missing" a selection of stations.

That said, I am unable to get National Rail to allow the journey...

 

National Rail is showing the £11.05 Off Peak fare for the journey as described by the OP. The ticket was valid, so they are due a full refund. However, the OP should consider which is more valuable - a refund and moral victory or continued use of the anomaly.

[Consumer dude]

National Rail is showing the £11.05 Off Peak fare for the journey as described by the OP. The ticket was valid, so they are due a full refund.

However, the OP should consider which is more valuable - a refund and moral victory or continued use of the anomaly.

 

I would let it go. swings and roundabouts and all that..

[Old-CodJA]

The Train Operating Company concerned has a purpose built Customer Relations department. Have you any conclusive evidence that hassling the MD for such petty issues yields any positive results that cannot be sorted by Customer Relations? You seem ever keen to promote this course of action.

 

It was rebel11 who posted the suggestion that the OP should write to a TOC MD /CEO

 

I don't suggest that it is a policy that should be followed in every case - far from it, but it would be extremely naieve for any of us to believe that this can never work.

 

There are a good many examples of cases where intervention by a CEO in reaction to a letter from a "customer" has had positive effect. Customer Relations staff have a reporting line too.

 

I certainly don't condone writing to the MD with every minor issue, but is well known at senior levels in the rail industry that there are at least two TOCs where this approach is more likely to work than others.

 

I would let it go. swings and roundabouts and all that..

 

Yes, probably good advice, it isn't a major issue, but it is a matter for the OP to decide of course.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[rebel11]

I'm sure the MD will pass it to the Customer Relations Department when he receives it, as you say it's petty so there should be no issues, yes there's lot's of evidence on this site that it works. Maybe this might be of importance to the MD. If he didn't want people to complain directly then he wouldn't have an e-mail address which his customers have access to. I can't tell you how keen I am to 'promote this course of action', actually very keen, companies are always asking for information via surveys, feedback and complaints, well they're getting it.

 

The Train Operating Company concerned has a purpose built Customer Relations department. Have you any conclusive evidence that hassling the MD for such petty issues yields any positive results that cannot be sorted by Customer Relations? You seem ever keen to promote this course of action.

[rebel11]

Good.

 

Fully agree with The Urbanite.

[rebel11]

Totally agree, to be honest there shouldn't be any anomalies.

 

National Rail is showing the £11.05 Off Peak fare for the journey as described by the OP. The ticket was valid, so they are due a full refund. However, the OP should consider which is more valuable - a refund and moral victory or continued use of the anomaly.

[rebel11]

Excellent post, quite correct I suggested that the OP should complain/feedback to the CEO, I've only ever come across one CEO who sent a whole week working on the shop floor with the employees and it wasn't undercover, he wanted to understand the 'nuts' and 'bolts' of the business.

 

It was rebel11 who posted the suggestion that the OP should write to a TOC MD /CEO

 

I don't suggest that it is a policy that should be followed in every case - far from it, but it would be extremely naieve for any of us to believe that this can never work.

 

There are a good many examples of cases where intervention by a CEO in reaction to a letter from a "customer" has had positive effect. Customer Relations staff have a reporting line too.

 

I certainly don't condone writing to the MD with every minor issue, but is well known at senior levels in the rail industry that there are at least two TOCs where this approach is more likely to work than others.

 

 

 

Yes, probably good advice, it isn't a major issue, but it is a matter for the OP to decide of course.

[The Urbanite]

Totally agree, to be honest there shouldn't be any anomalies.

 

The UK rail network itself is a baroque convolution with many arteries and tributaries where it's often possible to take multiple routes to reach a destination. Combined with a National Routeing Guide that is proportionally arcane, a myriad of different operators offering varying qualities of service and all having different ideas of what Off Peak is, competition over routes, legacies of previous operators/sectors, easements coming from a variety of sources and so on, it's inevitable that anomalies spring up every now and again.

 

Telling the Train Operating Companies concerned will often see the anomaly promptly corrected in their favour if they think it may cause them to lose revenue. This "Anytime" Off Peak Cross London Day Return from Hertford East is significantly cheaper than the Anytime Day Return from Broxbourne or Cheshunt for example. If they got wind that people knew about and exploited this anomaly, Greater Anglia would most probably want to fix that.

 

As for whether they should exist, of course they shouldn't. But where they do, I take full advantage of them. I live 125 miles away from work most of the year, so I find novel legitimate ways to significantly reduce the amount I have to pay to a more reasonable price, whilst circumventing time restrictions both in the morning and evening. Given that many ticket inspectors don't have a clue about tickets and are too egotistical to admit they don't know and need help to establish the validity, like in the OP's son's case, they attempt to make me buy a brand new Anytime ticket and try to use their best tactics to extract money out of me. To date, I've been threatened with Penalty Fares, prosection, been shouted at in front of a carriage full of passengers, received demands to get off the train, had the police called, had my railway staff discount pass that I wasn't even using withdrawn and so on. Sometimes, they wisely choose to spend up to one hour dealing with me, despite having a train full of passengers whose tickets need checking. I'm always polite but resilient. To date, they have not been successful in personally obtaining a single penny from me. I never, ever hand extra money over when I know I already hold a valid ticket and would not encourage anyone else to do so.

 

In the world of ticketing anomalies, it pays to be two steps ahead. If you think about it, an Off Peak ticket between two commuter stations near London in 99% of cases, is not going to be valid to arrive in London until around 9:30 - 10am, so you have to be prepared to explain yourself and stand firm when staff get it wrong. That's not how it should be, but that's how it is.

Edited August 16, 2012 by The Urbanite

[andydd]

Just to add, I recently complained about two ticket inspectors (thread elsewhere), CCing Rudd of Greater Anglia and did get a personal response from him and the issue resolved (and got some compensation), although have to agree that it is not always appropiate, especially for minor petty maters.

 

Andy

[firstclassx]

The reality is that if you pursue this matter, the anomaly will be rectified in NFM14 (January 2013).

 

Rectified will either see a steep price increase as this fare is not regulated and can even be withdrawn entirely, or, at best, the ticket restrictions will be tightened.

 

You need to consider whether there may be savings to be had in the future, exceeding the £11 odd, by using this ticket.

 

Emailing a Managing Director is a sure fire way of getting things like this closed down. This may well ruin an anomaly which an unlimited amount of people may, or could potentially be exploiting and saving money.

 

For the greater good and all....