Eviction for Benefit Fraud. Please Help.

[estellyn]

OP said the appeals have been 'done'.

 

yes, she might have filed the appeal and started the process, but from what I understand they haven't been heard yet. A case needs to be built by someone who actually understands the system - a lot of criminal solicitors don't - and its already been stated that this solicitor only does criminal court, not civil - benefit Tribunals are civil court.

[inn0cence]

OP said the appeals have been 'done'.

the appeal has been sent in. thats what i meant.

 

Again, you seem to be posting different information - in post 166 you state the solicitor 'has done the appeals', that's past tense. In this post you say 'will deal'.

 

Which is it?

solicitor has sent the appeal in.

[inn0cence]

yes, she might have filed the appeal and started the process, but from what I understand they haven't been heard yet. A case needs to be built by someone who actually understands the system - a lot of criminal solicitors don't - and its already been stated that this solicitor only does criminal court, not civil - benefit Tribunals are civil court.

 

this is going to be a problem because the solicitor has already sent in the appeal pack.

 

hey, what happens if at the appeal, the appeal gets turned down?

 

is there a further appeal?

[Lea_HTH]

I think there is some cross-purpose here.

 

What is the appeal for? For the benefits decision to be overturned re granting of benefits?

 

OP, the post you tell me to read makes no sense in relation to what I asked. I shall have a quick re-read of the thread just to see whether you mentioned it previously or not.

[estellyn]

I think there is some cross-purpose here.

 

What is the appeal for? For the benefits decision to be overturned re granting of benefits?

 

OP, the post you tell me to read makes no sense in relation to what I asked. I shall have a quick re-read of the thread just to see whether you mentioned it previously or not.

 

My understanding is an appeal has been put in regarding the original living together decision. A revision has been requested regarding the new claim which was refused on grounds they were still living together.

[estellyn]

this is going to be a problem because the solicitor has already sent in the appeal pack.

 

hey, what happens if at the appeal, the appeal gets turned down?

 

is there a further appeal?

 

What do you mean by 'sent in the appeal pack'?

 

If the appeal fails then the only reason it can be appealled further is on an error of law - this happens rarely. So if the appeal fails then the overpayment stands and there is nothing to stop criminal prosecution - why its very important to get the right representation.

[Lillibelle]

Lillibelle<.....................................................> is stunned..

[Lea_HTH]

My understanding is an appeal has been put in regarding the original living together decision. A revision has been requested regarding the new claim which was refused on grounds they were still living together.

 

Cheers, I had got the impression from the posts that the appeals had been done and prosecution was pending. I still think the whole story hasn't been told however.

[estellyn]

Cheers. I still think the whole story hasn't been told however.

 

My experience with these things is that stories in these situations always have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Lea_HTH]

My experience with these things is that stories in these situations always have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

Always!

[45002]

Does anyone know any about CT.

 

As the OP friend has had a demand for back dated Council tax "CT"

 

Is this now just now a outstanding Debt and Council can pursue this now at the County court (Civil)

 

Or

 

Can the Council pursue this now at the Magistrate court (Criminal) for non payment.

 

? ?

[Lea_HTH]

Post 132, point 3, referred to the Council Tax issue. If the bailiffs have already been sent in, then there is already a liability order.

 

I will repeat, however, that I don't think the full story is available to us, and therefore any snippets of advice given may be wrong as they respond in isolation to bits that may change if the full story was given.

[45002]

Post 132, point 3, referred to the Council Tax issue. If the bailiffs have already been sent in, then there is already a liability order.

 

I will repeat, however, that I don't think the full story is available to us, and therefore any snippets of advice given may be wrong as they respond in isolation to bits that may change if the full story was given.

 

Thanks,I missed that post you point out,So liability order issued by Magistrate court !

[inn0cence]

Post 132, point 3, referred to the Council Tax issue. If the bailiffs have already been sent in, then there is already a liability order.

I will repeat, however, that I don't think the full story is available to us, and therefore any snippets of advice given may be wrong as they respond in isolation to bits that may change if the full story was given.

 

i dont know of any liability order. what i do know is that she went to court for the CT. a man from LA spoke to her in lobby. and he said (something in lines of) he does not know what is going on with this. and that she should go home and he would write to her.

 

What do you mean by 'sent in the appeal pack'?

 

If the appeal fails then the only reason it can be appealled further is on an error of law - this happens rarely. So if the appeal fails then the overpayment stands and there is nothing to stop criminal prosecution - why its very important to get the right representation.

 

where do i get hold of a welfare rights person?

 

as far as i know she has a letter from the courts to say they have the appeal and will let her know of the outcome when it happens.

 

can she get the papers back, and can she put extra evidence in there before the appeal gets heard?

[estellyn]

 

 

 

where do i get hold of a welfare rights person?

 

as far as i know she has a letter from the courts to say they have the appeal and will let her know of the outcome when it happens.

 

can she get the papers back, and can she put extra evidence in there before the appeal gets heard?

 

Ok, this is the process: An appeal is made in writing to the council or on form GL24 to the DWP (if there is a DWP decision to appeal). The appeals section for housing benefit (and DWPif relevant) will look at their decision again and if they can't change it will send an 'appeal pack' to the Tribunals Service - this is everything to do with the decision from original claim forms, renewal forms, printouts of contacts with the HB section, maybe a transcript of the IUC, details of any evidence they have collected - and their arguments as to why they thing your friend was living with her ex. Around this time the person appealling will be sent a copy of the appeal pack and on the top is a form to send to the Tribunal Service stating if the person wants an oral or paper hearing, needs an intepreter, can accept a cancellation on short notice. This is thn sent back and if the person opts for a paper hearing (very very bad idea) they just wait for the decision. If its a face to face hearing, then they are sent a date and time to attend for the appeal to be heard.

 

this should all have been explained by the solicitor. If a paper hearing has been requested, she needs to immediately request it changed to an oral hearing - a paper hearing in this case would be very unlikely to be successful. yes more evidence can be sent, but also important in a case like this is that someone experienced pulls together a 'submission' for the Tribunal, which is basically a written statement explaining your friend's side of the case, presenting her evidence in context, and arguing against or explaining any evidence presented by the other side (which will be in the appeal pack).

 

what area of the country is your friend in? we may be able to suggest some organisations in the area that could help.

[inn0cence]

Estellyn you are a great help.

Her solicitor is currently on holiday and will be back in the office on Monday. I will go and talk with him directly. And find out exactly what is going on. And then I shall write On here.

Someone said that we cant really answer questions unless we know the story.

Well I'm working on finding out.

Just bear with me please.

[estellyn]

Estellyn you are a great help.

Her solicitor is currently on holiday and will be back in the office on Monday. I will go and talk with him directly. And find out exactly what is going on. And then I shall write On here.

Someone said that we cant really answer questions unless we know the story.

Well I'm working on finding out.

Just bear with me please.

 

No problem, we'll be here when you get more info.

[inn0cence]

Thanks guys.

[45002]

Thanks guys.

 

 

How much do the rent arrears stand at now,last time you posted it was £2000 + http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?361109-Eviction-for-Benefit-Fraud.-Please-Help.&p=3962245&viewfull=1#post3962245

 

And has any of the arrears been paid off yet ?

Edited September 12, 2012 by 45002

[inn0cence]

How much do the rent arrears stand at now,last time you posted it was £2000 + http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?361109-Eviction-for-Benefit-Fraud.-Please-Help.&p=3962245&viewfull=1#post3962245

 

And has any of the arrears been paid off yet ?

 

She is paying off £5 a week.

But it won't mean anything if HB doesn't come in.

Rent probably stands at about £2200.

 

Edit.

Edited September 12, 2012 by inn0cence

[abc123def]

Is there an eviction date? Or do you know the court date where this will be ordered?

[45002]

Is there an eviction date? Or do you know the court date where this will be ordered?

 

Suspend Possession order granted to Housing Association http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?361109-Eviction-for-Benefit-Fraud.-Please-Help.&p=3972658#post3972658

 

I think this is only putting off the invertible Possession order ending in eviction.

[estellyn]

Suspend Possession order granted to Housing Association http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?361109-Eviction-for-Benefit-Fraud.-Please-Help.&p=3972658#post3972658

 

I think this is only putting off the invertible Possession order ending in eviction.

 

Suspended possession usually means the eviction won't take place along as certain terms are met - like making payments and getting housing benefit in place. would guess if it isn't in place within the time period or the suspension, then the possession order will go ahead - unless there is convincing evidence of the potential success of appeal of the new claim. I did have a client with in excess of 2K arrears and managed to hold off on eviction until the appeal had been heard - but I went to the possession proceedings myself as a benefit adviser and argued for her myself and explained the appeal issues to the judge - but it wasn't a LTAHAW case, it was a right to reside case, and I managed to get the hearing adjouned each time rather than getting a suspended possession order as there were potential HB arrears involved aswell, which helps.

[45002]

Suspended possession usually means the eviction won't take place along as certain terms are met - like making payments and getting housing benefit in place. would guess if it isn't in place within the time period or the suspension, then the possession order will go ahead - unless there is convincing evidence of the potential success of appeal of the new claim. I did have a client with in excess of 2K arrears and managed to hold off on eviction until the appeal had been heard - but I went to the possession proceedings myself as a benefit adviser and argued for her myself and explained the appeal issues to the judge - but it wasn't a LTAHAW case, it was a right to reside case, and I managed to get the hearing adjourned each time rather than getting a suspended possession order as there were potential HB arrears involved as well, which helps.

 

The main problem is HB.

 

The tenant has already had a IUC on alleged HB fraud there little if No chance at all of HB been reinstated before court hearing and council are after 5 or 6 years worth of CT..

 

Think housing association just want possession now so they can re let to new tenant ....

Edited September 13, 2012 by 45002

[estellyn]

The main problem is HB.

 

The tenant has already had a IUC on alleged HB fraud there little if No chance at all of HB been reinstated before court hearing and council are after 5 or 6 years worth of CT..

 

Think housing association just want possession now so they can re let to new tenant ....

 

Yes, absolutely that's what the housing association want - but having come up against a council who wanted the tenant out at all costs - even doing some really reprehensible stuff - a good argument on the likelihood of a HB award being made at appeal, can be very effective on a judge. they really don't want to evict people unless they really have to. Obviously we really don't know the truth of what's been said, but the housing association will be limited as to what evidence they can present that the new claim won't succeed, as they won't have access to any data from the fraud investigation. If positive evidence can be presented that the ex in question is currently living elsewhere, then a good benefit/housing adviser could convince a judge to continue suspended possession.

 

Sadly i've seen HB appeals officers with no evidence of current fraud though there may be past fraud), refuse a current claim, even knowing it will get overturned at appeal, and that in the meantime the person will in all probability get evicted - like an extra punishment they are giving out for the fraud. One appeals officer definately was doing this as she more or less admitted it, and tried to things to mess the claimant's other valid claims for other benefits.