CFO Drains my account ...... with Bank's Consent

[renegadeimp]

You ned to write a formal complaint to barclays head office and head it as such. Then depending on their response you can take it tot he oft/fos/fsa or even consider legal action.

 

As youve seen in the news and press this year, barclays are breaking the law all over the place, so its important you get those complaints in.

[sillygirl1]

Go ahead with a formal complaint to the FOS, clearly the bank do not know how to stop other departments wrecking something the people at the top have solved. The bank won't like this at all. I would ring them up and explain what has happened and ask for their intervention.

[AngryDover]

Thanks guys,

 

are there any proformas for complaint letters? If not, I'll try and draft one and ask for any comments before I send it.

 

thanks again

[Nao]

Nah, just make a short timeline of events, plus mention that you consider it a violation of the 2009 Payment Services Directive.

[slick132]

I don't see where the "previous dealings" aspect has any bearing on this case.

 

In this instance, the bank are there to carry out YOUR instructions and if, for whatever reason, you choose NOT to pay someone, the bank should do what you want.

 

I would ask the bank to confirm specifically what law or regulation they have based their decision upon.

 

Draft a brief response keeping to the salient points and put it here for consideration. I know of no template for this although it looks like CAG could use one for CFO and the banks !!

 

Thread title changed to reflect the ongoing problem.

[Nao]

on top of complaining about them taking the money again you may also want to consider complaining to visa, cause cfo clearly breached the terms and conditions of the agreement they have that allows them to handle visa card data.

if it was not a visa card, ignore above bit.

[AngryDover]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

In addition to the above, I also posted, emailed, faxed and placed in barclays internal mail (never been this thorough before) an instruction to cancel the CPA for these people, however, 7 weeks later, I still have not received a response from them confirming that this has been actioned even though I specifically requested confirmation!

 

I'd also like to know what a "Guaranteed Debit Card Payment" is and why, when my account was empty i.e. sat at £0 with no overdraft, Barclays honoured the payment in the first place?

[AngryDover]

Hi Guys,

 

Can I have your opinion on the following?

 

Thanks

 

-------

 

Formal Complaint regardingS/C **-**-** A/C ********

Dear Sir or Madame,

I regret that, further to myprevious email and telephone correspondence regarding issues on the aboveaccount, I am now escalating my concerns as a formal complaint; the followingis a brief précis of events as they have occurred up to now:

05/08/2012 2 unauthorisedcharges made to my Debit Card totalling £664.72 made by Capital Finance One.Contact made with Barclays customer service department who said that it couldnot be dealt with until Monday and to try and contact the company direct.

06/08/2012 Attemptedcontact with Capital Finance One using all known methods, no success. Contactmade with Barclays Debit Card Services, Requested that the payments bewithdrawn. Card Services informed me that this could not be actioned due toprior dealings with the company concerned.

07/08/2012 Received aletter confirming that the payments had been “Guarantee” and that, therefore Iwould be charged £16 as I had exceeded my overdraft.

08/08/2012 CalledBarclays Card Services reiterating that I had not authorised the company to takethe payments and was told this time, that because it was a financial companythere was nothing Barclays could do.

Lettersent to Barclays Customer Care team, by mail, email, Fax and internal mail fromBishopsgate branch. No response received. This letter also instructed that theContinuous Payment Authority, which had been set up without my permission beremoved immediately and that confirmation should be sent.

13/08/2012 Called CardServices requesting a chargeback. Card Services responded that they could notinterfere due to their obligations under the consumer credit act.

Contactestablished by telephone with Customer Care Team. Transactions refunded and achargeback commenced. Informed that I would need to fill in forms regarding theunauthorised nature of the transactions

25/08/2012 Paper work andForms finally received from Card Services Fraud Team. These were completed andreturned the same day by mail, email, Fax and internal mail from Bishopsgatebranch.

22/09/2012 Letterreceived from Card services stating that, as I had prior dealings with CapitalFinance One, I was being held fully responsible for the payments and that the refundswere being withdrawn immediately.

25/09/2012 £664 withdrawnfrom my account;

I hereby request that you clarifythe following points:

1. YourCard Services team stated, in numerous different ways, that they could notinterfere under consumer credit law. Which UK laws apply in this matter and howdo they apply?

2. YourCard Services team stated, in numerous different ways, that they could notinterfere as I had had previous dealings with Capital Finance One. Which UKlaws apply in this matter and how do they apply?

3. Followingextensive research, I can find no legal definition of a “Guaranteed Debit CardPayment”. Kindly clarify what this is and what legal basis these carry.

4. Theimposition of an Overdraft limit is a safeguard to protect both you, as thebank, and myself as customer. Why is it that Barclays decided to permit such alarge breach of my overdraft limit, when, normally, a transaction which wouldplace me more than £2 over would result in an immediate decline of the card/

Apart from the service receivedfrom your Customer Care Team, I have been extremely disappointed by the levelof service received from you and the massive stress that this has placed upon meand my relationship with my Partner.

I am awarethat the Financial Ombudsman Service would take a very dim view of the aboveand I am considering escalating this complaint to them immediately.

I thereforerequest that, as I did not authorise the payment, you:

1. Immediately refund the amounts taken today.

2. You investigate the lack of knowledge withinyour Debit Card Services Team and ensure that this is not repeated for eithermyself or any other unfortunate customer.

Yours Faithfully

*********

[AngryDover]

Please note that the actual document is spaced properly! not sure why it's done that on here...

[slick132]

Which UK laws apply in this matter and how do they apply?

 

I would ask, "Please confirm what legislation or regulation you rely on, to make such a decision and ignore my clear and explicit instructions.

 

Tell them you are making an immediate urgent complaint to the FOS. "Considering eacalting........" isn't enough.

 

I'd also tell them, if this has left you in severe financial difficulty, you expect them to remedy the situation immediately.

[AngryDover]

Thanks slick!

 

Another thought, does this action constitute a breach of contract by Barclays?

[slick132]

I'm sure we've mentioned BCOBs here already or, at least, we should have done.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=7&a=220

 

[AngryDover]

Hi Slick,

 

The way I understand it, this is unfair treatment by the bank. I found an area I believe to be appropriate and posted it earlier on here. Can you give it a quick look and tell me what you think?

 

Thanks

[renegadeimp]

I don't see where the "previous dealings" aspect has any bearing on this case.

 

In this instance, the bank are there to carry out YOUR instructions and if, for whatever reason, you choose NOT to pay someone, the bank should do what you want.

 

I would ask the bank to confirm specifically what law or regulation they have based their decision upon.

 

Draft a brief response keeping to the salient points and put it here for consideration. I know of no template for this although it looks like CAG could use one for CFO and the banks !!

 

Thread title changed to reflect the ongoing problem.

 

We already have a template slick, although its not complete or posted in the library yet. It should be in the CPA sticky.

[AngryDover]

Here's the final draft as far as I can see it... any further suggestions appreciated

 

------

 

Formal Complaint regardingS/C **-**-** A/C ********

Dear Sir or Madame,

I regret that, further to myprevious email and telephone correspondence regarding issues on the aboveaccount, I am now escalating my concerns as a formal complaint; the followingis a brief précis of events as they have occurred up to now:

05/08/2012 2 unauthorisedcharges made to my Debit Card totalling £664.72 made by Capital Finance One.Contact made with Barclays customer service department who said that it couldnot be dealt with until Monday and to try and contact the company direct.

06/08/2012 Attemptedcontact with Capital Finance One using all known methods, no success. Contactmade with Barclays Debit Card Services, Requested that the payments bewithdrawn. Card Services informed me that this could not be actioned due toprior dealings with the company concerned.

07/08/2012 Received aletter confirming that the payments had been “Guarantee” and that, therefore Iwould be charged £16 as I had exceeded my overdraft.

08/08/2012 CalledBarclays Card Services reiterating that I had not authorised the company to takethe payments and was told this time, that because it was a financial companythere was nothing Barclays could do.

Lettersent to Barclays Customer Care team, by mail, email, Fax and internal mail fromBishopsgate branch. No response received. This letter also instructed that theContinuous Payment Authority, which had been set up without my permission beremoved immediately and that confirmation should be sent.

13/08/2012 Called CardServices requesting a chargeback. Card Services responded that they could notinterfere due to their obligations under the consumer credit act.

Contactestablished by telephone with Customer Care Team. Transactions refunded and achargeback commenced. Informed that I would need to fill in forms regarding theunauthorised nature of the transactions

25/08/2012 Paper work andForms finally received from Card Services Fraud Team. These were completed andreturned the same day by mail, email, Fax and internal mail from Bishopsgatebranch.

22/09/2012 Letterreceived from Card services stating that, as I had prior dealings with CapitalFinance One, I was being held fully responsible for the payments and that the refundswere being withdrawn immediately.

25/09/2012 £664 withdrawnfrom my account;

I hereby request that you clarifythe following points:

1. Your Card Services team stated, in numerousdifferent ways, that they could not interfere under consumer credit law. Pleaseconfirm what legislation or regulation you rely on, to make such a decision andignore my clear and explicit instructions.

2. YourCard Services team stated, in numerous different ways, that they could notinterfere as I had had previous dealings with Capital Finance One. Pleaseconfirm what legislation or regulation you rely on, to make such a decision andignore my clear and explicit instructions.

3. Followingextensive research, I can find no legal definition of a “Guaranteed Debit CardPayment”. Kindly clarify what this is and what legal basis these carry.

4. Theimposition of an Overdraft limit is a safeguard to protect both you, as thebank, and myself as customer. Why is it that Barclays decided to permit such alarge breach of my overdraft limit, when, normally, a transaction which wouldplace me more than £2 over would result in an immediate decline of the card?

Apart from the service receivedfrom your Customer Care Team, I have been extremely disappointed by the levelof service received from you and the massive stress that this has placed upon meand my relationship with my Partner.

It is also my belief thatBarclays, by pursuing this course of action may have breached the Banking Codeof Business regulations 2009, concerning unfair treatment of customers.

I am awarethat the Financial Ombudsman Service would take a very dim view of the aboveand I have made an urgent complaint to them.

Barclayscontinued actions in this matter have, once again, left me in severe financialhardship and I therefore expect the following to be actioned immediately:

1. Immediately refund the amounts taken today.

2. You investigate the lack of knowledge andcustomer care within your Debit Card Services Team and ensure that this is notrepeated for either myself or any other unfortunate customer.

Yours Faithfully

[renegadeimp]

You want to ask them the question that slick posed. Ask them to quote the specific law that says that since you had prior dealings with a creditor that they are under no obligation to chargeback a unauthorised transaction.

 

Make sure you quote the FSA law that says explicitally the opposite.

[Nao]

Another thought, does this action constitute a breach of contract by Barclays?

 

Multiple BCOBS violations, as well as a 2099 Payment Services Directive violation.

Depending on your financial circumstances approving the Overdraft necessary to allow the payment could potentially fall under irresponsible lending guidelines.

The "investigation" that the Bank should have done after the initial charge back could potentially violate the T&Cs of Barclays with Visa / Mastercard (*depending on which one was involved) depending on how they conducted the investigation.

 

And that's before opening the can of worms that is the violations of just about every guideline by CFO.

[AngryDover]

from http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/oct/30/payment-services-regulations-bank-customers ...

 

"If a debit is made from a customer's credit or debit card, or by a direct debit, and it is more than they could reasonably have expected, the entire amount must be refunded by the bank within 10 days unless it can provide evidence not to."

 

Interesting...

[AngryDover]

This should grab Barclays attention!

Evidence on authentication andexecution of payment transactions

60.—(1) Where a payment service user—

(a)denies having authorised an executed payment transaction; or .

(b)claims that a payment transaction has not been correctly executed, .

it is for the payment service provider to prove that the paymenttransaction was authenticated, accurately recorded, entered in the paymentservice provider’s accounts and not affected by a technical breakdown or someother deficiency.

(2) In paragraph (1)“authenticated” means the use of any procedure by which a payment service provideris able to verify the use of a specific payment instrument, including itspersonalised security features.

(3) Where a payment service userdenies having authorised an executed payment transaction, the use of a paymentinstrument recorded by the payment service provider is not in itselfnecessarily sufficient to prove either that—

(a)the payment transaction wasauthorised by the payer; or .

(b) the payer acted fraudulently or failed with intent or grossnegligence to comply with regulation 57.

Furthermore:

Payment service provider’sliability for unauthorised payment transactions

61. Subject to regulations 59 and 60, where anexecuted payment transaction was not authorised in accordance with regulation55, the payment service provider must immediately—

(a)refund the amount of the unauthorisedpayment transaction to the payer; and .

(b)where applicable, restorethe debited payment account to the state it would have been in had theunauthorised payment transaction not taken place.

[renegadeimp]

Barclays know the law. They just have a history of ignoring it and thinking it doesnt apply to them.

[AngryDover]

So how the heck are we supposed to stop a monster like barclays? looking at some of the links to fos and fsa, the impression I've been getting is don't bother?

[renegadeimp]

How do you stop them? Very simple. Know your rights, get your points organised and make formal complaints and follow them through to resolution. This includes any legal action.

 

They get away with it because people like to shout and complain, but rarely ever do it officially or follow it up. Mainly because they think others will do it instead.

[AngryDover]

And just to be crystal clear, prior to unleashing havoc with FOS, FSA, OFT et al "you have had dealings with..." (even though I owe them money) is not a valid excuse for them to withhold a refund/act as they have?

 

thanks again...

[renegadeimp]

Under UK law, they cannot say that as an excuse not to chargeback. If they do, then demand that they state the specific law which entitles them to say it. DOn't believe the "it's company policy" line. The law says in no uncertain terms, that the account holder is allowed a full refund.

[AngryDover]

Under UK law, they cannot say that as an excuse not to chargeback. If they do, then demand that they state the specific law which entitles them to say it. DOn't believe the "it's company policy" line. The law says in no uncertain terms, that the account holder is allowed a full refund.

 

Thats how I now understand it! Thanks Imp, I will get this sent by Fax, email and post now and call them tomorrow to confirm receipt.