Zinc chasing old C L Finance CCJ's

[rkitect]

Hi all,

 

Longtime no speak. I am after a little advice. The back ground is as follows:-

 

My wife has two CCJ's going back to early 2008 for HSBC Loan & Credit Card accounts.

 

The original defaults/last payments on these accounts go back to Jun 06 and Jan 07 consecutively.

 

These payments were made after the accounts were transferred to the DCA CL Finance.

 

Recently, these accounts have been chased by the DCA's Zinc Recoveries and Lowell Portfolio I Ltd.

 

I sent a CCA request to both of these DCA's on 17/10/11 and neither have been able to produce any CCA's etc.

 

I received a reply from Lowell Portfolio I on 11/11/11 saying that they had not received a CCA from HSBC and were therefore putting the account on hold.

 

Since then I have received a "Notification of Oustanding Account" from UK Default Recovery for the same account.

 

Zinc Recoveries continue to bombard the telephones with nuisance calls from 'Mr Allen'.

 

On 21st March 2012

I escalated matters by sending "Account in Dispute" letters to all three DCA's still no CCA's have been forthcoming?

 

However, Zinc recoveries are still actively pursuing her with threatening calls and letters.

 

What is my next best course of action.

 

Also, how do I determine if one of the accounts (last payment date Jun 06) is 'statute barred'?

 

Can I get these debts written off as they are unenforceable and can I get the CCJ's removed from my wife's CRA report?

 

Is it a case of waiting until Jan for both of the original debts to become "statute barred"

 

or do the CCJ's mean that the period for this would extend to the date that these were imposed?

 

Any advice would be most helpful.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi,On the points you have made , getting debts written off -- highly unlikely,

being unenforceable --- means that the creditor/DCA can enforce the debt in

court BUT the debt still exists and remains payable can be chased and credit

files updated, the non existance of or erors in paperwork have lost almost importance

since case law changes.

A default remains on credit files for six yeras after which it is removed paid or not.

The CCJs -- nif the claimant has not enforced the judgement in 6 years then they

have to apply to the court for leave to restart the claim, this is rarely given.

Statute barred-- you need to check credit files on all the debts, if they do NOT appear

then the 6 years are up and they have been removed.

The CRA file will show the status of the debt, the default date, and the date

of the ''last delinquent payment'' that is the date for the start of the six year period.

 

There must not have been any payment or acknowledgment in writting in that

6 year period.

[cerberusalert]

I'm I right in the understanding that they are chasing the CCJs which were granted against these a/cs?

 

If so I'm afraid that a CCJ supersedes any CCA agreement... in affect it has been rewritten by the court. The only way you will find out if any of these a/cs was in fact SB would be to send the original creditor a SAR. If they were then you would have to apply to a court for the CCJ to be set aside which could still prove difficult.

 

A CCJ never becomes Statute Barred, however it becomes subject to sec.24 of the Limitations Act if no enforcement has been made within six years.

 

(1) An action shall not be brought upon any judgment after the expiration of six years from the date on which the judgment became enforceable.

 

(2) No arrears of interest in respect of any judgment debt shall be recovered after the expiration of six years from the date on which the interest became due.

[DonkeyB]

Makes me wonder if they realise there's a CCJ in place. Amazing how little these idiots know about the accounts they acquire.

 

They have rather shot themselves in the foot by suspending collection activity on an account that is no longer even covered by the CCA.

[rkitect]

Hi Brigadier2jcs,

 

Thanks for your reply. From what you have said, is it now pointless to pursue the the DCA for not having provided a valid agreement? Sorry to be a dummy, but I am not aware of the changes to case law. If this is the case, would you suggest that the best course of action is to ignore the DCA whilst I check whether the debt is 'statute barred' and pursue that line? It is just that my wife received threat of a doorstep visit today which I would obviously like to avoid.

 

Your advice really is appreciated.

[DonkeyB]

If CCJs were granted, that is it – they can’t become statute barred.

 

From your info, there was no six year period between default/last payment and judgment. So the judgment stands. Forget SB. And nothing to do with case law.

 

However, it appears that the new owner of the debt does not realise there is a CCJ in place. You might want to continue with the ‘account in dispute’ route, but that is reliant on their ignorance of the true situation, and eventually they may work it out. Bit of a mess really!

 

Who owns which accounts? Who got the CCJs – HSBC or the debt buyers?

[rkitect]

Hi Cerberusalert,

 

I believe they are chasing the accounts as opposed to the CCJ's as all of their correspondence references the original creditor and account numbers though I could be wrong. I have briefly had a look at an old copy of my wife's credit report circa Jan 2010 and the defaults actually show up with the original DCA and not the original creditor. It then shows the CCJ's for these accounts on a separate page with their own clearly defined reference numbers. Also, the figures differ slightly to include disbursements of some kind. The figures the DCA's are chasing correspond with the original outstanding balances and not those on the CCJ's.

 

The dates for default are Jun '06 and Jan '07 respectively and the corresponding CCJ dates are Jan '08 and Mar '08, for reference.

[rkitect]

Hi DonkeyB,

 

The more I look at it I start to wonder the same. Still no more sure what to do next though.

[rkitect]

Hi again DonkeyB,

 

I am fairly certain the original DCA got the CCJ's as they show up on my wifes credit record as being in charge of the account when she defaulted. Very messy indeed, but would they not have to apply to the court to restart the claim if they were to find out about it? Therefore, maybe it is worth me continuing the account in dispute??

[cerberusalert]

It indeed seems that they are unaware of the CCJs which isn't unusual as they buy portfolios of many thousands of debts and receive only the basic of information.

 

As I said if the CCJs haven't been enforced within six years then s.24 applies and they're stuffed in any case.

 

Of course you can plead ignorance of the CCJs yourselves & make them prove a debt exists & they have the legal right to pursue. With luck by the time they pull their heads out of their derrières the six years will be up.

[dx100uk]

zinc are known to chase 'dead' debts.

 

as for you CRA file

 

DONT assume that because a DCA is named as the owner

that THEY took the CCJ out!!

 

go up on th www.trustonline.org.uk site

 

and check who is the originally named claimant.

 

dx

[rkitect]

I think maybe the best bet is continue down the root of 'account in dispute' and threaten a complaint to OFT for their harassment. Maybe I will send of a cheeky letter to them regarding their doorstep threat too. Would challenging them on the 'statute barred' be completely futile given that they know nothing of the CCJ's?

[rkitect]

Thanks dx100uk, I'll do that.

[rkitect]

This is getting stranger! As suggested by dx100uk, I went to http://www.trustonline.org.uk, entered my wifes name and current address and searched against the 'England & Wales Orders & Judgements' database. The search reported 'Nothing Registered'!

[DonkeyB]

Do you have copies of the actual CCJs? Documents from the court?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok have you at any time made any payments under the judgements.

Credit Files next then.

[rkitect]

No, we have never received any documents, we only found out about the CCJ's when my wife obtained her credit report. This could be as the date of the CCJ's quite closely coincides with when we moved house though!

[rkitect]

No Brigadier, never made any payments. By credit files, do you mean obtain up to date reports?

[i hate bailiffs]

i have had those threatening letters too now they have sent we are disappointed that i have not contacted them

 

and doorstep collections letters, was looking to replacing the doorstep as don't like the old one but its still there

 

the last few letters were please call them

 

so it might not be the CCJ or as bad as you think:-)

[cerberusalert]

The CCJs will probably show up under the old address, if so that is grounds for applying for a set-aside as you never received the documents & were unable to defend.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi yes if it's been more than a month since you checked. there could

be changes that affect this.

[rkitect]

Cerberusalert, should I try searching under the old address or just apply for a set-aside anyway? If so, how would I do this??

[rkitect]

Brigadier, the last report she had was from Equifax, should I get a report from Experian too or is there a way of getting all her credit information?

[DonkeyB]

If you want the set aside, you will also need a valid defence. It won’t affect the SB status as a claim was lodged.

 

Best to be sure of the actual CCJs first, so worth checking under your old address to get the full details.

 

I’m guessing you’ve never seen the claim forms, so you won’t know the PoC at present. If you get a set aside, you’ll need to find this out by requesting a copy from the court (it will probably now only be held electronically).

[dx100uk]

until you know the ccj's do still exist do not rely!!

 

dx