PCN & Confero Bailiffs were taking car - paid up, he ignored TEC appeal TE7 & TE9 - want money back - help!!

[tomtubby]

I have now sent you a PM and hope that this works.

[Alchemy6]

ha ha ha, got a letter today from Chelmsford County Court, where Confero's "Rent-A-Thug" is registered, and the Judge wants me to complete a Form 4...

 

I suspect its because I fired off a letter asking if the Court had issued the bailiff with a clamping order and if they had authorised him to recover his costs/fees.

 

Obviously, its a tricky thing, so I sent another letter off asking if I'll be liable for any further financial burdens or legal action if I complete and submit the form, so I'll wait for their response - this flys in the face of current thinking as the bailiff is under the belief that if I complain then he will consider me 'litigious' and pursue a claim for defamation and seek damages.

 

Are they having a laugh...

 

tomtubby - cheers I'll check now and get right back to you

[old bill]

Sounds to me as if the District Judge at Chelmsford County Court is well p:censored:d-off with Confero's "Rent-A-Thug". If "Rent-A-Thug" claimed he had a clamping order or clamped your vehicle without lawful authority, i.e. he had no right in law to do so, he could lose his certificate and bond, if he's lucky. If not, he could face prosecution, jail and loss of his certificate and bond. In the words of Capt. Mainwaring, "Stupid boy."

[lamma]

"this flys in the face of current thinking as the bailiff is under the belief that if I complain then he will consider me 'litigious' and pursue a claim for defamation and seek damages." Unlawful Distress (and that can just be excess charges) means that it is you that has the claim for damages !

[old bill]

Alchemy,

 

If you have been asked by the District Judge at Chelmsford County Court to complete a Form 4, it is clearly evident that the judge has concerns about the conduct of "Rent-A-Thug". I feel you are wise to approach the court and enquire about any risk of an adverse costs order, but it sounds like the only person who will be worrying about an adverse costs order is "Rent-A-Thug". Like I have said in Post #28, "Rent-A-Thug" could face forfeiture of his certificate and bond, if he's lucky. The fact that you approached the court to confirm whether he had lawful authority to do what he did could well mean the District Judge has him down for an early crucifixion.

[brassnecked]

Looks like this judge will not let the bailiff turn an enquiry as to his fitness as litigation and land complainant with loadsa fees imho

[Alchemy6]

OB, I thought you'd say that, so I've replied to that effect -

 

"With regards to the Judge requesting that I complete a Form 4, I am somewhat ambivalent in doing so because in the last correspondence I received from the bailiff (Confero Collections Ltd.) it is intimated that should I consider making a formal complaint about his alleged behaviour then he will have no recourse but to vigoursly, and with the full weight of the law, pursue legal action to defend his good character and business practices; which will result in him seeking an award of compensation/damages for the false and litigious allegationse brought against him. Therefore, in light of what he has written can you please confirm (in writing) that I will not incurr any further legal/financial expense if I should complete this Form4 (which has been issued at your request) and that the actions of Confero Collections Ltd. would be unlawful and unwarranted in threatening to pursue further litigious and malicious action against me; should I submit a complaint against them."

 

I'll be interested to read their reply...

[old bill]

Having read your post, Alchemy, I think it more likely that "Rent-A-Thug" will have his certificate withdrawn and forfeit his bond now it has come out into the open the lengths he is prepared to go to in order to conceal his unlawful and illegal behaviour. What he and Confero Collections have done, by sending you a letter, written in such terms, is commit an offence under Section 1, Malicious Communications Act 1988. Not only that, falsely claiming to be acting under the authority of a court, as "Rent-A-Thug" did by claiming he had a clamping order, when he didn't, is an indictable offence under Section 135, County Courts Act 1984. It carries a maximum penalty of 7 years' imprisonment. He could also face a charge of Blackmail (Section 21, Theft Act 1968). Enquire with the court whether they intend to summon the managing director of Confero Collections Ltd to appear in front of the court and explain their threatening letter.

[Witchywoman]

I found this very interesting as I am having a problem with a local authority re PCNs as well as bailiff fees. Should Alchemy6 not be taking the local authority to court and not the bailiff? The LA are responsible for the bailiff's actions surely?

[old bill]

I found this very interesting as I am having a problem with a local authority re PCNs as well as bailiff fees. Should Alchemy6 not be taking the local authority to court and not the bailiff? The LA are responsible for the bailiff's actions surely?

 

Although the local authority is 100% vicariously-liable under Civil Law, any criminal offences are the responsibility of the person and/or company who commits those offences. The local authority is liable for civil damages. All fines and compensation orders imposed by a criminal court have to be met by the defendant and, in the case of a company, its directors, secretary, officers and managers. Company funds must not be used to indemnify them or corrupt employees.

 

In Alchemy6's case, the District Judge at Chelmsford County Court requested Alchemy6 to submit a Form 4. The bailiff had claimed he had a clamping order and to recovers his fees. This was clearly untrue. Falsely claiming to be acting under the authority of a court is a criminal offence under Section 135, County Court Act 1984 and carries a maximum penalty, on conviction, of up to seven years' imprisonment.

Edited August 11, 2012 by old bill

[Witchywoman]

Old Bill,

are 'erroneous' fee charges criminal, as in bailiffs charging more than they are allowed to?

[old bill]

Old Bill,

are 'erroneous' fee charges criminal, as in bailiffs charging more than they are allowed to?

 

Technically speaking, yes, they are. It is an offence under Section 2, Fraud Act 2006 to defraud or attempt to defraud another by making a false misrepresentation as to a matter of fact or law, whether deliberately or recklessly, with a view to make a gain for oneself or that of another, or to cause loss to another or expose another to loss or the risk of loss.

 

A company can be prosecuted for the same offence under Section 12 of the Act and so can its directors, secretary, officers and managers.

 

The reason for this is because bailiff's fees for enforcement of PCNs are set and regulated by statute.

[Witchywoman]

Thanks for your reply. How/where does one go after a bailiff for doing that?

[old bill]

Thanks for your reply. How/where does one go after a bailiff for doing that?

 

Usually, the police would deal with fraud offences. However, because police officers do not cover bailiff law during their training and have been mislead by bailiffs so much, they regard it as a civil matter.

 

If you are being hassled to pay unlawful fees, work out which fees are lawfully payable, tell the bailiff and his bailiff company and attach or enclose the relevant legislation with any correspondence/email. They cannot argue with what the law lays down. Copy to the local authority. Tell the local authority to drop the unlawful fees or the matter will be escalated to the LGO or Department for Communities and Local Government.

 

If you have already paid unlawful fees to the bailiffs, your best bet is to pursue them through the Small Claims Court. Neither a bailiff or bailiff company can risk a CCJ against their name, as a bailiff would have their certificate revoked and forfeit their bond and the bailiff company would be put into compulsory liquidation, that is, closed down.

 

However, be warned that bailiffs and bailiff companies served with Smalls Claims proceedings tend to make 11th Hour settlements, usually, the day before the hearing or just as the case is about to be heard. This tends to wind-up the Registrar of the court as the bailiff and bailiff company are wasting the Registrar's and the court's time, as well as your time. Some Registrars take a very dim view of this practice and let the defendants know of this in no uncertain terms.

 

If the bailiff company has an OFT licence, this should be reported to OFT Credit Fitness Team and Trading Standards. Write to the Court Manager at the county court that issued the bailiff's certificate, marking the letter FORMAL COMPLAINT, and see if you are asked to submit a Form 4 complaint. Under no circumstances submit a Form 4 complaint blindly.

Edited August 11, 2012 by old bill

[brassnecked]

I hope Alchemy6 has indeed submitted that Form 4 as if the criminal nature of the bailiffs behaviour is aired in front of a judge, it may mean more than loss of certificate and bond down the line.

[old bill]

Alchemy,

 

In view of the threatening nature of the letter you received from Confero, I would photocopy and send to the Court Manager, copied to the District Judge, enquiring as to whether they wish you to complete the Form 4 as requested or whether it is felt other proceedings are more appropriate.

[Witchywoman]

Usually, the police would deal with fraud offences. However, because police officers do not cover bailiff law during their training and have been mislead by bailiffs so much, they regard it as a civil matter.

 

If you are being hassled to pay unlawful fees, work out which fees are lawfully payable, tell the bailiff and his bailiff company and attach or enclose the relevant legislation with any correspondence/email. They cannot argue with what the law lays down. Copy to the local authority. Tell the local authority to drop the unlawful fees or the matter will be escalated to the LGO or Department for Communities and Local Government.

 

If you have already paid unlawful fees to the bailiffs, your best bet is to pursue them through the Small Claims Court. Neither a bailiff or bailiff company can risk a CCJ against their name, as a bailiff would have their certificate revoked and forfeit their bond and the bailiff company would be put into compulsory liquidation, that is, closed down.

 

However, be warned that bailiffs and bailiff companies served with Smalls Claims proceedings tend to make 11th Hour settlements, usually, the day before the hearing or just as the case is about to be heard. This tends to wind-up the Registrar of the court as the bailiff and bailiff company are wasting the Registrar's and the court's time, as well as your time. Some Registrars take a very dim view of this practice and let the defendants know of this in no uncertain terms.

 

If the bailiff company has an OFT licence, this should be reported to OFT Credit Fitness Team and Trading Standards. Write to the Court Manager at the county court that issued the bailiff's certificate, marking the letter FORMAL COMPLAINT, and see if you are asked to submit a Form 4 complaint. Under no circumstances submit a Form 4 complaint blindly.

 

How do you find out the country court that issued the bailiff's certificate? And does one report separately to the OFT?

[hallowitch]

How do you find out the country court that issued the bailiff's certificate? And does one report separately to the OFT?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?210956-On-line-search-to-check-if-a-Bailiff-is-Certificated.....

[old bill]

How do you find out the country court that issued the bailiff's certificate? And does one report separately to the OFT?

 

Go to http://www.justice.gov.uk for the Certificated Bailiff Register. To report a bailiff company to the OFT send an complaint by email to [email protected] and insert CREDIT FITNESS in the subject box. Give a clear and concise resume of your complaint. It helps if you include the name of the bailiff company and their CCA Licence Number.

[Witchywoman]

Hi Old Bill,

Where would I get the CCA licence number of the bailiff? I do have his name though.......although only his last one. Or is it the company I am reporting?

[old bill]

You will be reporting Confero. I would contact the OFT on 08457 224499 first and get through to Credit Fitness. If they cannot find any record of Confero on the Public Register, you may have to report the matter to the MoJ's Bailiff Department at [email protected].