N1 Claim Form received for old Welcome Finance debt

[hmmh1978]

What do you remember about this loan?

Do you have any paperwork?

Did you sign an agreement and if yes, did it comply with the requirements of CCA 1974?

Did you receive a default notice?

Did you receive statements about the account?

 

Look at the information you do have and formulate a response based on that.

[hmmh1978]

As your agreement was made before 6 April 2007, if there were any defects with it, then the court has no power to enforce.

 

Apart from the NoA issue, Default Notice and breach of s 67, there are also the possible defects mentioned:

 

- credit misstated as it included charges for credit;

- failure to give notice of cancellation rights;

- defect in notice of cancellation rights;

 

Did you have PPI by the way?

 

I just checked and see that the date of the claim was the 14th May so you have until next week to formulate a defence so there is no need to panic just yet.

 

I would call the solicitors and ask them if they received your CPR 31.14 request? Also, whether they would consent to an extension for the defence to be filed by "28 days" (CPR 15.5) whilst they respond to your CPR 31.14 request.

 

Advise them that the alternative is an application to be made which would deal with disclosure AND the extension of time and that because they did not comply with pre-action protocol in terms of divulging all the paper work required for the claim, there may be an adverse costs order against them.

 

If they do agree to the extension, ask them to email you their agreement and to send it via snail mail as well.

 

Also state that if you do not get the email by tomorrow 12:00pm, you will be filing an application for their compliance.

 

I am not going to be back online until this evening so if you get stuck, there are enough knowledgeable people here to help you through however right now, you should be contacting the solicitors and making sure they are aware of their obligations.

 

Ps. Forgot to add that the defences mentioned previously may or may not suit your circumstances. It all depends on what you remember, what paperwork you have in your possession and the paper work received from the claimaint, if any.

Edited June 7, 2012 by hmmh1978

[dx100uk]

you REALLY must get an sar off to welcome

 

you dont state how much they are after

 

but if yu have PPI or any ins back to the sart in 2005

it'll porb be worth £1000's along with all their PENALTY charges.

 

have you the agreement still?

 

and what was the loan type?

 

dx

[Fars]

Thank you for the advice dx

 

you REALLY must get an sar off to welcome

Ok, I can do that, was just worried with it taking up to 2 months to be dealt with that it wouldn't help in my timeframe, if the information arrives after my 28 days are up (early next week) what do I do then?

 

you dont state how much they are after

Ah sorry, the amount was hidden away in post 4, it is around £2700

 

but if yu have PPI or any ins back to the sart in 2005

it'll porb be worth £1000's along with all their PENALTY charges.

I did have ppi, I was told they wouldn't give me the loan without it at the time. The loan was £2000ish and the insurance was £400ish

 

have you the agreement still?

Yes

 

and what was the loan type?

It was a personal loan

 

dx

[Fars]

Thank you for the advice hmmh,

 

As your agreement was made before 6 April 2007, if there were any defects with it, then the court has no power to enforce.

Not sure how I can check for defects, I have the original sat here infront of me, any advice on checking this?

 

Apart from the NoA issue, Default Notice and breach of s 67, there are also the possible defects mentioned:

 

- credit misstated as it included charges for credit;

- failure to give notice of cancellation rights;

- defect in notice of cancellation rights;

Ok, that all sounds interesting.

 

Did you have PPI by the way?

Yes

 

I just checked and see that the date of the claim was the 14th May so you have until next week to formulate a defence so there is no need to panic just yet.

I think it works out as this Saturday if we don't include bank holidays/jubilee etc, and next week if we do.

 

I would call the solicitors and ask them if they received your CPR 31.14 request? Also, whether they would consent to an extension for the defence to be filed by "28 days" (CPR 15.5) whilst they respond to your CPR 31.14 request.

 

Advise them that the alternative is an application to be made which would deal with disclosure AND the extension of time and that because they did not comply with pre-action protocol in terms of divulging all the paper work required for the claim, there may be an adverse costs order against them.

 

If they do agree to the extension, ask them to email you their agreement and to send it via snail mail as well.

 

Also state that if you do not get the email by tomorrow 12:00pm, you will be filing an application for their compliance.

 

The problem is that the solicitors listed on the claim form aren't really solicitors at all, but rather an in house department for IND, the chasing DCA. So when you call the phone number on the claim form for the solicitors you get IND answering and not offering any help.

 

I am not going to be back online until this evening so if you get stuck, there are enough knowledgeable people here to help you through however right now, you should be contacting the solicitors and making sure they are aware of their obligations.

 

Ps. Forgot to add that the defences mentioned previously may or may not suit your circumstances. It all depends on what you remember, what paperwork you have in your possession and the paper work received from the claimaint, if any.

Ok, thanks for that. I remember pretty much everything I'd say, I have all of the paperwork, from agreement to ppi insurance pack, only paperwork IND have ever sent me was the letter 2 weeks before the claim notice arrived.

[dx100uk]

can you scan up the agreement please

and i'll see what i can do with a PPI spready for you.

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

.

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx

[Fars]

Ok, done. Hopefully this is good enough to be useful. If any areas need more detail I can provide that.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35840[/ATTACH]

 

Should also point out that it appears the credit agreement was never infact signed by either myself or welcome. Not sure if this changes anything.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Fars

[dx100uk]

is this the ONLY loan you ever had ?

 

dx

[Fars]

From these guys, yes.

 

I had a couple of others from another company for around £4500.

[AndyOrch]

How did you make application on this loan FARs? The lack of signatures and execution could signify a reconstituted version?

 

Andy

[Fars]

I called up the local office and applied over the phone as far as I remember. They sent me the documents and then a few days later the loan was in my bank account.

[AndyOrch]

I called up the local office and applied over the phone as far as I remember. They sent me the documents and then a few days later the loan was in my bank account.

 

Original agreement or by a section 77 request?

[Fars]

All of my documentation is original from 2005. So original agreement.

 

Section 77 request I sent off on 22/05/2012 is still unanswered.

[AndyOrch]

Have you retained the original Default Notice might as well check that out also?

[Fars]

Still not entirely sure what a default notice is. I'm assuming it is the letter I received on 26/04/2012 saying last letter before legal proceedings.

 

If that is it, the only information it has is an account statement saying the amount and an odd date of 02/12/2011 as the default date.

 

edit/

 

Ah just reread your post Andy. No I don't have an original default notice from welcome or anyone prior to IND taking over this debt, I have kept every other document i've recieved but don't appear to have that. So I am assuming it was never received.

[AndyOrch]

The DN would have been issued in 2006 when you agreed a payment plan of £1pm.

 

There is no reference to it in the P.O.C no default date no agreement date.

 

 

"The Claimant claims for sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s) related only to money regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of Agreement(s). The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct. And the Claimant Claims: Personal Loan Account number XXXXXXXX balance of 2.700 as of 2/12/11. interest under the s69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 2/12/11 to 10/5/12 of 94 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.59 AND Costs"

[Fars]

I see.

 

Does my not having it now and there being no mention of it in the P.o.C affect my defence?

[AndyOrch]

Well it cant be validated or sure if one was ever issued.To commence legal proceedings a DN must be issued.They have not even proved that they are the legal owner yet by way of assignment.

Perhaps wait until hmmh is on line to offer further advice but from what I see its impossible to draft a partularised defence based on the claimants pleadings.

 

Also impossible to agree extension CPR 15.5 with an answerphone.

[Fars]

Ok, thanks for the clarification Andy.

 

I'm guessing when they purchased this debt from Welcome I should have received notification, which would have been the assignment.

[AndyOrch]

Lets refute the P.o.C as it stands:-

 

 

"The Claimant claims for sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s)

What agreement/s they have failed to respond to your section 77 request and therefore will shortly be in default

 

related only to money regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant.

Not true you have never entered into an agreement with the Claimant and they have yet to disclose a valid NoA.

 

The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of Agreement(s)

.When, what date what was the breach?Proof that a DN was issued and subsequent Arrears Notices issued since?

 

The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct.

How in what way A LBA dated 26th April 2012?

 

And the Claimant Claims: Personal Loan Account number XXXXXXXX balance of 2.700 as of 2/12/11. interest under the s69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from

2/12/11 to 10/5/12 this is the assignment date?

 

of 94 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.59 AND Costs"

[dx100uk]

ta

 

153.21*24=3677.04

 

total for PPI = 684.34

total for loan=3677.04

 

total for PPI /Total for loan * 100 = 18.6%

 

18.6% of £153.21 = £28.52 PPI PCM

 

think this is correct:

[dx100uk]

we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

 

 

Absolutely DX time permitting.

 

Andy

[Fars]

we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

 

I'm assuming the only way to get that information is with a SAR to Welcome though?

 

 

 

ta

 

153.21*24=3677.04

 

total for PPI = 684.34

total for loan=3677.04

 

total for PPI /Total for loan * 100 = 18.6%

 

18.6% of £153.21 = £28.52 PPI PCM

 

think this is correct:

 

 

 

we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

 

Thanks for looking at the numbers dx, this side of things confuses me further however.

 

If the loan was £2000, ppi £450 and they're asking for £2700 then isn't the maximum the amount could be reduced by £700 odd?

 

How could they owe me money if charges only make up around £250?

 

Sorry for all the questions, just finding this so difficult

[Fars]

lets refute the p.o.c as it stands:-snip

 

Thank you very much for that Andy, this has really helped me understand what they are saying and what they actually have. Is there any benefit to entering a defence based upon these questions and statement in my own words?