Company Van - Company wants me and several others to pay towards fuel costs !

[Madcat333]

Hi there - I trust someone might offer advice regarding the following.

 

Yesterday 5th May 2012, I and several others received the following through the post:-

 

 

Dear Mr Madcat333

 

As you are aware, at the end of March 2012, we discussed proposed changes, specifically being the removal of fuel cards.

 

I am pleased that we were able to conduct these discussions constructively and the purpose of this letter is to clarify the changes that have now been agreed and made.

 

The changes are as follows: to remove fuel cards from use. Fuel will be paid for journeys that necessitate business mileage of 50 miles and over each way from your home address.

 

These changes will be effectively immediately and all T***l fuel cards are to be returned to Head Office immediately. All Quick Fit cards are to be kept in case of breakdown or emergency fuel only.

 

If you have any questions whatsoever please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Your cooperation is anticipated and appreciated.

 

Sincerely

 

 

Mr XXXX XXXXX

Operations Director.

 

 

This letter was sent to up to ten persons and was written exactly as it appears here (warts and all).

 

The letter was written on the 1st May, 2012; posted on the 4th May 2012 and received on the 5th May, 2012.

 

I have been a paid employee of the Company for the last three years and have always had the benefit of a fully expensed Van.

 

The discussion that took place at the end of March 2012 was an informal meeting in a roadside Cafe.

 

At the discussion it was highlighted that I was costing the Company £0.13 more per hour to send to work than the Company was receiving from its Client.

 

I ascertained that the Company had based its calculations on the fuel used during January 2012 and had not taken into account any other Months to provide an average.

 

I feel this was unfair since we work out of our Vans and in the absence of any welfare facilities needed to burn some fuel in order to keep warm in sub-zero temperatures !

 

I sympathetically listened to his pleadings but on no account agreed to pay anything towards his fuel costs.

 

Indeed I rang him later that day and proposed that I would return to a self employed status and they could make use of my services if I was not engaged in other business activities with other clients.

 

I never got the opportunity to present any details to him, instead I received the letter as above.

 

To pay for one hundred miles a shift is going to cost me an extra £300.00 per month and his returns will be modest.

 

My offer of permitting him to book my services as a self employed sub contractor (were I available) would have more than doubled his returns.

 

I obviously want to negotiate a revised package/ working relationship.

 

Is it too late ?

 

Thanks, in advance for any advice offered.

 

Regards

 

Madcat.

[Gbarbm]

Normally, your employer will reimburse you for the fuel used for business journeys.

See booklet 480 Expenses and Benefits on HMRC webbsite; it seems rather unfair if your employer is expecting you to part fund business miles.

There is one way round this without getting embroiled in confrontation with your employer;

Fill in form P87 at the end of the tax year (downloadable from HMRC website) and claim back the non reimbursed business mileage.

Be careful if you decide on self employed status because HMRC may deem you to be an employee if you only undertake work for one client during the tax year

[raydetinu]

Surely claiming back tax on mileage only applies if you the employee provides the vehicle?

Is that what you do, Is it your vehicle? you pay the licence and insurance etc.

If so, then yes you can claim the tax back, based on 35p or 40p/mile. ( not sure what the current rate is at the mo.)

You can do that anyway if the employer only pays the fuel you just take the fuel you get away from the allowance and claim the rest back.

IRC allow you say 35p/mile you deduct fuel paid by employer at say 15p/mile, so you can claim back 20p/mile. ( example )

Done that for years and it did appear as a general allowance on tax form. ( retired now ).

[Gbarbm]

EIM22900 - Van fuel benefit from 2005/06: introduction

Section 160 ITEPA 2003

From 2005/06 onwards, van fuel benefit is incurred whenever:

any fuel is provided (see EIM25515), whether or not for private use

for a van for which the restricted private use condition (EIM22795) is not met.

The charge is in addition to the relevant van benefit charge and operates in a very similar way to the car fuel benefit charge; see EIM22905 for similarities and EIM22910 for the few differences.

Note that van fuel benefit is not incurred if either of the above conditions is not met, that is if either:

the restricted private use condition is met for that employee in relation to that van, or

no fuel at all is provided for any purpose.

Nor is van fuel benefit incurred:

for years to 2009/10 if the van is powered solely by electricity

for years from 2010/11 onwards if the van cannot in any circumstances emit CO2 by being driven (a zero emission van).

Cash equivalent

See EIM22915 (but note that the cash equivalent is reduced to nil if the employee pays for all their private fuel, EIM22920).

Reduction in van benefit to nil - effect on van fuel benefit charge

Note that it is possible for the van fuel benefit charge to be incurred even if there is no taxable amount of van benefit. For example, where the restricted private use condition is not met in relation to a van, the cash equivalent of that van benefit might be reduced to nil as a result of payments made by the director or employee for the private use of the van (see EIM22840).

[Madcat333]

Many thanks for a prompt response Gbarbm.

 

Have just downloaded the Booklet and Form.

 

There are just so many areas that I and others feel needed to be discussed before this kind of letter was posted to us.

 

Not one of us had been provided with complete information with which to make such an important decision.

 

Indeed several fellow employees only knew about the Company's intentions when they opened the letter yesterday.

 

All we know at this stage is that the Company thinks it has our consent to somehow deduct nearly £300 per month from our wages!

 

They are using a Tracking device in order to compute the deductions !

 

These were fitted a fortnight or so ago.

 

Once again many thanks for your help.

 

Regards

 

Madcat

[Madcat333]

To elaborate, we were provided with Vans expressly for Business use.

 

No personal mileages were permitted.

 

All details of use were logged without any shenanigans or creative activities.

 

We had use of a multi function card for all Fuel, Maintenance and Breakdown use.

 

Now we are expected to foot the bill for the first 50 miles of an outward journey and the first 50 miles of the return trip.

 

The Company will then pick up the bill for any miles effectively over the 50 mile point each way.

 

I feel particularly aggrieved since I only travel within a 40 mile radius of my home location.

 

Hence I go from fully expensed Van to Van where I pay all fuelling costs !

 

Many thanks also to Raydetinu, although ive just spent 2 mins believing i had trapped a gnat behind my screen protector ! Damn!

 

Regards

 

Madcat

[Gbarbm]

I agree that the employer should have discussed this with you beforehand.

Do you have a union rep you could take this up with?

Now this is just my opinion you understand; but I wonder if your employer has recently been the subject of an employer compliance review by HMRC and have been pulled up on their record keeping and have had to pay money to HMRC as a result hence their over zealous attitude to the vans.

[Madcat333]

Many thanks again Gbarbm.

 

I have just joined the GMB today on account of them having a specialist section that deals specifically with my Industry Sector.

 

It is my intention to take matters as far as praticable to reach an amicable workable solution; afterall we all need to work.

 

It just grates that they have put the cart before the horse for some reason; almost as if they are rushing to be seen as compliant or accountable to someone.

 

All I want is the opportunity to be listened to and for us all to be treated respectfully.

 

It was troubling me that they state they have incepted this method when there are several other avenues that remain unexplored.

 

Regards

 

Madcat

[Gbarbm]

Good idea to get the unions take on it. Let us know how you get on with that and post back here if you need any further help.

Good luck and kind regards

Gbarbm

[raydetinu]

Good luck madcat, does not sound at all fair to me.

Cant see any justification for it at all.

[numbers666]

Hi,

 

Leave van(s) at work. Drive to work in private car and home in private car. I am sure you haven't probs with commuting to and from ???

 

Therefore all mileage in vans will be business. Ok you'll have to pay the fuel to commute. Hopefully you are closer than 50 miles!.

 

If they don't put fuel in vans then you cant work!!!

 

Oh, custom and practise......

 

N

[Madcat333]

Many thanks to you all for pointers given thus far.

 

My line of approach is to:

 

1. Express in writing that I have not given consent.

2. To keep everything in writing between myself and my Employer.

3. Demand a reasonable time-frame to seek advice from various sources : Union, ACAS, CAG, CAB and if necessary an Employment Law Firm.

4. Express that they continue their custom and practice of meeting fuel costs via fuel card throughout this period of consultation and negotiation.

 

I will most definitely continue to post back, since this thread might well become more relevant in the future in respect of Company Vehicle Drivers whose Companies are looking to cut costs.

 

Once again thank-you.

 

Regards

 

Madcat

[becky2585]

Just to add, ACAS have a conciliation service, so it's possible for employees to collectively go to ACAS, who will then talk to the employer on your behalf. They will also then mediate, for free, if a meeting is arranged to try to solve the dispute between the employer and the group of employees.

[raydetinu]

Yes good call ACAS will give very good advice even over the phone. Suggest you contact them for advice.

[Madcat333]

Its been a busy couple of Days.

 

Contacted ACAS and they gave some good advice over the phone.

 

They commented that the variance referred to in the letter could not be back-dated and used a very strong term - "unlawful" !

Also they said it would have been more reasonable for the Employer to have confirmed the contents of the discussion that took place in March 2012 in writing.

It would then have been reasonable for the Employer to have entered into a consultation and discussion period at a minimum of "one week per year's service upto a maximum of twelve weeks".

 

ACAS said that should the Employer wish to proceed without our consent it would be reasonable for the Employer to state their actions in writing giving the same notice period that would be applicable to termination of Contract i.e. twenty-eight days.

 

Finally they said it was a matter that could be taken further at my discretion.

 

After that phone call I got through to my Union representative.

 

Upon hearing of my predicament she advised me to make a formal grievance in writing and post it to my Employer via recorded delivery.

She is more than willing to accompany me to the meeting in order that I can air my views and get some transparent answers to the many questions this issue raises.

 

So I'm off to draw up a letter as advised.

 

This matter has had a detrimental effect to the degree that 1 Employee has walked out, 1 Employee is signed off with stress and 6 of us have become Members of the same Union !

 

Surely it would have been easier for the Employer to have suggested a small deduction in rate of pay/hr?

 

Many thanks to all who posted since my last visit - it's all very much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Madcat

[raydetinu]

good luck, I am sure they will see sense in the end as it will be affecting business and goodwill of their emplyees.

[Anus Horribilis]

To elaborate, we were provided with Vans expressly for Business use.

 

No personal mileages were permitted.

 

All details of use were logged without any shenanigans or creative activities.

 

We had use of a multi function card for all Fuel, Maintenance and Breakdown use.

 

Now we are expected to foot the bill for the first 50 miles of an outward journey and the first 50 miles of the return trip.

 

That's absurd. Like BA demanding that their pilots pay for the jet fuel for flights within the UK...