Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[**Margaret**]

Nystagmite: Can't decide whether I've upset you. Certainly didn't mean to. The comment was meant to be a sarcastic one, aimed at Grayling et al.

 

No way do I believe adaptation to disability equals no limited capability for work.

 

Best wishes with your job hunt/ESA claim, whichever's right for you, Margaret.

[Nystagmite]

No offence taken.

 

And thank you

[worried33]

ok I pressured ATOS and they changed their story but wotn back down.

 

The story was

 

DWP ordered them to stop recorded medicals.

 

Now its

 

The region can no longer do recorded medicals (but other regions can).

 

They refused my offer of getting someone to bring a tape recorder saying it has to be their own equipment, this was very predictable. But I said this because its what the DWP told me to say and I dont want to be sanctioned.

 

Now the DWP are on the case.

[nolegion]

Well held, worried33. The sheriff of Nottingham was ever a villain. Updates awaited with considerable interest.

[worried33]

none today.

 

What worries me is if the DWP backdown and then start taking ATOS's side on this. This has gone up the DWP chain now, I dont know how far but I been told its gone higher.

[Crazy Diamond]

has anyone actually heard of anyone having a recording since February.

Yes. To everyone's great surprise, one Spartacus member on Facebook did get it recorded, got a CD to take home AND was told that she wouldn't need it as she'd be placed in the support group.

 

Miracles DO happen apparently!

 

 

Edit: Sorry, correction, not on the Spartacus group, but on a closed FB group, I will ask the person permission to C&P what she posted.

 

Re-edit: Here we go:

 

Atos WCA went very badly for the assessor, but very well for me. The doc had to ring me a taxi home and Atos paid for it, because of the state I was in. The assessment was recorded, and I have the CD. However, I have been told off the record that I won't need it for appeal, as I am to be placed in the support group.

 

How many people get to leave their WCA better off than they were before they went in?? Those were very powerful good luck wishes from you all -

Edited July 9, 2012 by Crazy Diamond

[hensteeth]

Yes. To everyone's great surprise, one Spartacus member on Facebook did get it recorded, got a CD to take home AND was told that she wouldn't need it as she'd be placed in the support group.

 

Miracles DO happen apparently!

 

 

Edit: Sorry, correction, not on the Spartacus group, but on a closed FB group, I will ask the person permission to C&P what she posted.

 

Re-edit: Here we go:

 

Huh? Since when has ATOS been responsible for making those decisions? For a start they don't have the power or the authority to do so, only the DM's at the DWP have that power. ATOS should never give out that type of opinion. For all they know the DWP could well decide to place the applicant in the work group or find them fit for work!

 

A case of overstepping the mark there - and for one, I would be complaining about the comments made on the basis that they are suggesting that the eventual decision lies with ATOS when it clearlly doesn't. Or is it a part admission by ATOS that the DWP will go along with anything they say?

[whitecraig_wizard]

More the tick box culture that exists in ATit world, Judge jury and in more than one sad case executioner too.

[Crazy Diamond]

Or is it a part admission by ATOS that the DWP will go along with anything they say?

 

I think you hit the nail on the head right there.

[Simon7685]

ok I pressured ATOS and they changed their story but wotn back down.

 

The story was

 

DWP ordered them to stop recorded medicals.

 

Now its

 

The region can no longer do recorded medicals (but other regions can).

 

They refused my offer of getting someone to bring a tape recorder saying it has to be their own equipment, this was very predictable. But I said this because its what the DWP told me to say and I dont want to be sanctioned.

 

Now the DWP are on the case.

 

I do not think this would hold up if challenged. Yes you can have it recorded as long as you don't live in XXXXXXXX region. Having said that very little surprises me anymore, although I would like to see DWP apply a sanction for not having a WCA on these grounds and it not being overturned on appeal..

[hensteeth]

I think you hit the nail on the head right there.

 

In which case there stands another line of complaint!

[worried33]

Huh? Since when has ATOS been responsible for making those decisions? For a start they don't have the power or the authority to do so, only the DM's at the DWP have that power. ATOS should never give out that type of opinion. For all they know the DWP could well decide to place the applicant in the work group or find them fit for work!

 

A case of overstepping the mark there - and for one, I would be complaining about the comments made on the basis that they are suggesting that the eventual decision lies with ATOS when it clearlly doesn't. Or is it a part admission by ATOS that the DWP will go along with anything they say?

 

Because I expect ATOS doctors know what they write is probably going to be the decision. I still havent heard of a single occurance where a DM has overuled a ATOS report.

[worried33]

I do not think this would hold up if challenged. Yes you can have it recorded as long as you don't live in XXXXXXXX region. Having said that very little surprises me anymore, although I would like to see DWP apply a sanction for not having a WCA on these grounds and it not being overturned on appeal..

 

you want me to be sanctioned?

[**Margaret**]

Oh well . No time off for good behaviour.

 

Don't know if you can remember from n pages ago but I'm fighting Nottingham Atos as well. And I'm not inclined to accept a postcode lottery.

 

Feel free to use all of, any of, or none of, what I've done so far:

Written request to Atos for them to record my interrogation.

Copied to Padge Road.

Copy of last Thursday's parliamentary written answer, #26 on the sister thread, sent for attachment to request for recording.

Written request to Grayling for answer as to 'whether Atos can deny a recording following an advance written request'.

 

Do you have local details for Atos? If not:

Atos (we'll forget the healthcare bit cos I'm getting more stressed by the second)

Nottingham Business Park

Orchard Place

Nottingham

NG8 6PX

Telephone 01159 758351 (although my mantra is everything in writing)

 

Am very aware of earlier contributors who felt coerced into accepting interrogations without recording. They did what felt right for them at the time. I let myself be persuaded into not taking notes of an interrogation; a decision I regret cos we've had thirteen, and counting, angst ridden months waiting for an incap tribunal. Won't be making that mistake again. For the moment I'm set on a recording by Atos and prepared to argue the toss with Grayling and Padge Road. Well aware it may go pearshaped so plan B is notes. Or Atos'll drive me to covert digital recording literacy. One way or another I'm having a record of all future interrogations; can't afford not to. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

Keep at em if you can. Best wishes, Margaret.

[Dilizjo]

Because I expect ATOS doctors know what they write is probably going to be the decision. I still havent heard of a single occurance where a DM has overuled a ATOS report.

Worried I most probably am the single case you hadn't heard of..... A DM overturned mine as soon as I got my appeal in after talking through the report with me over the phone...... but I know that is very unusual and consider myself very lucky.

[hensteeth]

A DM overturned mine as soon as I got my appeal in after talking through the report with me over the phone.

 

That is rather amusing may I say.

 

After an assessment in which you are found fit for work, the DM rings you up to have a 'chat' as to whether the assessment is correct? Why not do away with all of the assessments and for all of us to have a 'chat' with the DWP to see if we are fit for work or not.

 

Another thing surprises me, and maybe you have no concern about giving your telephone number out to the DWP, is how do the DWP find out your number if you don't give it to them so that they can ring and have a 'chat'?

 

No one is required to hand out this type of private information, even when making a benefit claim. I certainly don't give mine out, I value my privacy too much.

[Simon7685]

you want me to be sanctioned?

 

NO Worried33 I don't want you to be sanctioned.

 

I meant that you have asked for your assessment to be recorded. ATOS have said that you can't have it recorded because you live in the wrong region. So if you refuse to have it done because it isn't recorded and ATOS inform the DWP who apply a sanction for refusing it. I do not believe that it wouldn't be overturned at an appeal.

 

If you are entitled to have your WCA recorded, ATOS cannot go around saying you can only have it if you live in the right area.

 

I think you have a very strong case for refusing to go ahead with any WCA they book you, if they aren't going to record it like you have asked.

 

Hope that is a bit clearer and sorry if you thought I was suggesting you should be sanctioned, that isn't what I meant:-)

[Simon7685]

Just to clarify for everyone......

 

If you are waiting to have your WCA carried out, contact ATOS and DWP and exercise your right to have it recorded. If ATOS then ring you up and say you can't have it because you live in the wrong area, tell them you want that in writing from them, as you will be seeking legal advice.

 

Refuse to have the WCA booked unless it is to be recorded, if you turn up and there is no recording facility refuse to go ahead with it.

 

It is only by standing up for our rights and sticking together on this that we stand any chance of forcing the Governments hand. If we all cave in and let them dictate to us like they are doing, then they will continue to walk all over us. We may well not win in the end but at least we can give them a hard time in the process.

 

Their are supposed to be 11000 WCA's every week, if we all demand them to be recorded, it will not take long before the system buckles under the pressure and something has to give.

 

WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS AS HUMAN BEINGS!

[Dilizjo]

Just to clarify for everyone......

 

If you are waiting to have your WCA carried out, contact ATOS and DWP and exercise your right to have it recorded. If ATOS then ring you up and say you can't have it because you live in the wrong area, tell them you want that in writing from them, as you will be seeking legal advice.

 

Refuse to have the WCA booked unless it is to be recorded, if you turn up and there is no recording facility refuse to go ahead with it.

 

It is only by standing up for our rights and sticking together on this that we stand any chance of forcing the Governments hand. If we all cave in and let them dictate to us like they are doing, then they will continue to walk all over us. We may well not win in the end but at least we can give them a hard time in the process.

 

Their are supposed to be 11000 WCA's every week, if we all demand them to be recorded, it will not take long before the system buckles under the pressure and something has to give.

 

WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS AS HUMAN BEINGS!

 

I am right with you there Simon...... no way will I have my assessment done and not recorded.

[Dilizjo]

Hensteeth

That is rather amusing may I say.

 

After an assessment in which you are found fit for work, the DM rings you up to have a 'chat' as to whether the assessment is correct? Why not do away with all of the assessments and for all of us to have a 'chat' with the DWP to see if we are fit for work or not.

 

Not amusing tbh....... I was lucky to get a DM who noticed big discrepancies and contradictions on my report and after talking them through with me decided to overturn it. I do not see the need for sarcasm.

 

Do not misunderstand me I am totally frustrated with the whole ESA system and the way some DMs deal with their claimants as I have been at the rough end of them as well, but there are good and bad in all official organizations.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Dilizjo
I did not do quote properly

[hensteeth]

Hensteeth

That is rather amusing may I say.

 

After an assessment in which you are found fit for work, the DM rings you up to have a 'chat' as to whether the assessment is correct? Why not do away with all of the assessments and for all of us to have a 'chat' with the DWP to see if we are fit for work or not.

 

Not amusing tbh....... I was lucky to get a DM who noticed big discrepancies and contradictions on my report and after talking them through with me decided to overturn it. I do not see the need for sarcasm.

 

Do not misunderstand me I am totally frustrated with the whole ESA system and the way some DMs deal with their claimants as I have been at the rough end of them as well, but there are good and bad in all official organizations.

 

I have no reason to disbelieve what you say and no doubt the assessment was a total contradiction to the truth, but my point was how did the DWP get hold of your telephone number?

 

As I have said, I cannot find on any benefit claim form that giving out private information like this is a requirement of making the claim.

 

So for the thousands like me, that value our privacy, not knowing where the information will eventually end up, how would the DWP find out what our number is so that we can have a 'chat'.

 

I was always under the impression, and certainly my government service dictated it, that such conversations should never happen unless they are recorded. In all cases where there is dispute it should be carried out in writing and not during a telephone conversation! I would be damned annoyed if I received such a call and my first comment would be 'put it in writing please' then hang up.

[osdset]

The DWP have my land line number, they ask me for it as part of the security rigmarole when I call them, I'm not particularly bothered if they have it or not, because they normally do everything in their power not to phone claimants, why would I worry? They already have my address, my NI number, and my medical records. It's not a police state yet.

[worried33]

Worried I most probably am the single case you hadn't heard of..... A DM overturned mine as soon as I got my appeal in after talking through the report with me over the phone...... but I know that is very unusual and consider myself very lucky.

 

sorry I meant without an appeal been submitted, the actual original decision.

[worried33]

NO Worried33 I don't want you to be sanctioned.

 

I meant that you have asked for your assessment to be recorded. ATOS have said that you can't have it recorded because you live in the wrong region. So if you refuse to have it done because it isn't recorded and ATOS inform the DWP who apply a sanction for refusing it. I do not believe that it wouldn't be overturned at an appeal.

 

If you are entitled to have your WCA recorded, ATOS cannot go around saying you can only have it if you live in the right area.

 

I think you have a very strong case for refusing to go ahead with any WCA they book you, if they aren't going to record it like you have asked.

 

Hope that is a bit clearer and sorry if you thought I was suggesting you should be sanctioned, that isn't what I meant:-)

 

Thanks for clarifying that.

[osdset]

An Olympics sponsor at the centre of the government's controversial cuts to disability benefits faces industrial action during the Games by PCS members trying to improve poverty pay levels.

Multi-million pound company Atos has faced heavy criticism for its handling of 'back to work' tests on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions, which disabled people and campaigners say are solely designed to cut the welfare bill. http://www.wired-gov.net/wg/wg-news-1.nsf/lfi/DNWA-8W2DZU