Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[count orlok]

No because the sick/disabled are treated worse than criminals.

[Guest amianne]

The police are subject to the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) and recordings are a legal requirement under the act.

 

Whilst claimants obviously have the right to a recording I don't think legislation is in place to force ATOS employees to consent.

 

But then if that is the case with the police, and I accept what you say, why do the revenue & customs, the council and the DWP always record their interviews? Are they still covered under that act?

 

No one in those departments has any choice whether they are recorded or not.

 

I just don't understand what this ATOS firm has a problem with. Are they frightened or something? Or are they supposed to be 'undercover' and their identities protected

[nolegion]

That was an interesting update from worried33 and there have been other such elsewhere. I hope people will continue to report their experiences like that.

 

Clearly, Atos are not able to deal with those who require a recording without significant delay in the process for the claimant, even though the revised policy has been in operation for many months now.

 

If an employer decides it is good policy to record its staff in some circumstances – on the telephone when dealing with customers, for instance, or in a shop for security reasons (or in a hospital to promote hygiene, as has recently been announced) – what is the remedy for the employer if some staff don't agree? Sack those staff, and engage others who will comply with a perfectly proper working-conditions requirement.

 

And if a contractor (the DWP) cannot get its subcontractor (Atos) to comply with the contractor's policy? Sack the subcontractor and get one that will do as it's told.

Edited June 9, 2012 by nolegion

[dpick]

 

I just don't understand what this ATOS firm has a problem with. Are they frightened or something?

 

One word answer "YES"

 

dpick

[keefyboy]

I think that ATOS are scared that the truth about the interviewing methods and inaccuracies that they make may well show them in a bad light (oh what a shame), as Nolegion said, if they can't comply with the conditions of the contract then sack them and find someone who can deal with it, so that people with genuine conditions get a Fair and truthful interviews and this would cut down on the amount of appeals that are having to be dealt with, which is all at cost to the Taxpayers

[osdset]

And if a contractor (the DWP) cannot get its subcontractor (Atos) to comply with the contractor's policy? Sack the subcontractor and get one that will do as its told.

 

Spot on, but I fear that the DWP won't exactly be rushing to bring ATOS to book on this.

[Dilizjo]

I would say that ATOS are definitely running scared of recorded assessments as then everything that a claimant tells them will be on permanent record and not on one of fictitious reports. Their attitudes would also be recorded so some would have to work on their communication skills.

 

Hopefully recording assessments will lead to less people being dragged through the appeals system and Tribunals, causing them less stress, which in turn will cost the DWP far less in resources and costs. IMO this makes simple common sense but hey who am I to comment, I am on ESA......

[worried33]

it gets worse, on saturday I got 2 more letters from ATOS.

 

One cancelling an appointment moving from june 19th to june 28th

Other cancelling june 28th moving to june 19th. I bet both are no recorded medicals.

[rainbo]

I requested my ex-husband's interview to be recorded a month before the WCA date. After 4 weeks of my ex-husband getting so worked up about the WCA that he wasn't eating and having nightmares (he has an anxiety disorder), ATOS phoned THE DAY BEFORE the WCA date to say they would have to move the appointment as their recording system was "broken". I couldn't put my ex-husband through more weeks of stress and worry, so I said we'd be in the next day as planned, and never mind about the recorder.

 

But it looks like we're not an isolated case!

[Nystagmite]

This is ridiculous. They claim that their recording system is broke. Do they really only have one in the whole country?

[rainbo]

This is ridiculous. They claim that their recording system is broke. Do they really only have one in the whole country?

 

That was the reason they gave me for moving the date if we "really want it recorded", because they would "have to source another one". It is completely ridiculous.

[Nystagmite]

It's not as if it's some ultra rare thing that no-one can get hold of. Excuses, excuses.

[worried33]

This is ridiculous. They claim that their recording system is broke. Do they really only have one in the whole country?

 

I was given the liverpool number today and they said their's was broke.

 

east midlands not saying same thing except when I stated I had an appointment in june the reply was not a chance thats a recorded one and its going to be a "long wait".

 

Apparently there is some automation as well as people manually booking me appointments so I will keep getting these letters they have to keep cancelling. Also if a recorded appointment is booked apparently the letter wont say so as its automated as well, they will ring me.

[Guest amianne]

I thought that following a recent 1st tier hearing where it was decided that any claimant that is still in receipt of the assessment rate of ESA after the 13th week and still not had a determination or assessment must be awarded the Work group component until such time as the determination or assessment has taken place, was all agreed?

 

No one should be on the assessment rate if there are delays of this nature, the DWP are required to pay the additional component forthwith.

 

I'm not too sure if the DWP are seeking further rulings on this.

[Nystagmite]

I heard that too.

[nolegion]

More interesting updates. Unless rainbo's and worried33's supposedly-equipped medical assessment centres are one and the same, it would seem the count of approved recording devices in the country is currently down to 9 - to be shared amongst 'recording claimants' who would normally attend up to 141 different centres.

 

And that last point amianne and Nystagmite mention seems a very important consideration if it holds good: both in terms of delayed claimants' cashflow, and the 'political' point that in some cases the inability of Atos to record as policy now requires will be costing the taxpayer additional money.

 

This is a total fiasco. It was entirely predictable that unless this much-needed (but much-resisted) change of policy was efficiently managed, the entire system it challenges could 'grind to a halt' . I think we are hearing that grinding. De-railment, next?

Edited June 12, 2012 by nolegion

[rainbo]

Unless rainbo's and worried33's supposedly-equipped medical assessment centres are one and the same *snip*

 

A London centre here, and Worried33's was Liverpool/East Midlands I believe, according to their post above.

[Dilizjo]

Here's a thought......

 

If ATOS is finding it difficult to supply the recording equipment, why they are I haven't got a clue taking into consideration the amount of money paid to them by the government, Why do they not use the rooms that are in every JCP that are used for IUC, already equipped with recording equipment, seeing that they are contracted by the DWP?

 

Or is that just plain, simple common sense????????????

[nolegion]

Far too sensible, Dilizjo. The DWP really knows how to put the 'ass' into assessment.

 

I read an account yesterday (at that 'site-we-don't-mention') from a claimant who asked for a WCA scheduled for January 2012 to be recorded, and after repeated re-appointments and cancellations, because Atos can't organise it, she still hasn't had that WCA by this mid-June.

 

The claimant was clearly on the misery-go-round of, first, appeal because of denial of ESA, succeed in the appeal, and then receive an almost immediate rescheduling of yet another WCA.

 

But she has stopped that in its tracks it appears – simply by requiring Atos to carry out DWP policy.

 

It certainly seems that where you are already on ESA (and you can handle the paperwork and uncertainty), you have little to lose by requiring a recording, and you may well postpone yet further intrusive, stressful, and humiliating re-assessment for the foreseeable future; with the added privilege of watching the DWP and its subcontractor making asses of themselves in the process ...

 

...(combined the warm and cosy hope you may be helping undermine the whole ghastly, disdainful, cruel, lethal, ignorant, imperious, botched and unfit-for-purpose, scheme to boot).

Edited June 13, 2012 by nolegion

[reallymadwoman]

Far too sensible, Dilizjo. The DWP really knows how to put the 'ass' into assessment.

 

I read an account yesterday (at that 'site-we-don't-mention') from a claimant who asked for a WCA scheduled for January 2012 to be recorded, and after repeated re-appointments and cancellations, because Atos can't organise it, she still hasn't had that WCA by this mid-June.

 

The claimant was clearly on the misery-go-round of, first, appeal because of denial of ESA, succeed in the appeal, and then receive an almost immediate rescheduling of yet another WCA.

 

But she has stopped that in its tracks it appears – simply by requiring Atos to carry out DWP policy.

 

It certainly seems that where you are already on ESA (and you can handle the paperwork and uncertainty), you have little to lose by requiring a recording, and you may well postpone yet further intrusive, stressful, and humiliating re-assessment for the foreseeable future; with the added privilege of watching the DWP and its subcontractor making asses of themselves in the process ...

 

...(combined the warm and cosy hope you may be helping undermine the whole ghastly, disdainful, cruel, lethal, ignorant, imperious, botched and unfit-for-purpose, scheme to boot).

 

Have just received my first appointment for a medical (IB to ESA claim) and when contacting ATOS they knew nothing about me requesting a recording even though it's on the ESA50 form. I'm waiting to hear back from them but I am guessing that this appointment will be cancelled because they won't be able to do the recording, and quite frankly if I'm still waiting for the medical in 6 months I'll consider it a bonus.

 

If it also messes up ATOS' deadlines for getting everyone off IB, that's an even bigger bonus. In fact, I believe earlier in this thread I suggested that everyone going through reassessment should ask for a recording because they definitely have nothing to lose.

[nolegion]

Quite so, RMW.

 

I see the increasing number of accounts of 'inability to process' being posted here at CAG , and elsewhere, as affirmation of both the principle and maths of your post #85 in this thread.

 

It seems that the people most at risk from the incompetence are new claimants for ESA who want a recorded assessment, which makes that 13 week principle referred to earlier here, of particular importance. I wonder if anyone has any further info on that particular score.

 

E.g., how do you set about claiming the higher rate after 13 weeks without an assessment - whether because of Atos inability to provide a recorded interview, or otherwise?

[reallymadwoman]

 

It seems that the people most at risk from the incompetence are new claimants for ESA who want a recorded assessment, which makes that 13 week principle referred to earlier here, of particular importance. I wonder if anyone has any further info on that particular score.

 

E.g., how do you set about claiming the higher rate after 13 weeks without an assessment - whether because of Atos inability to provide a recorded interview, or otherwise?

 

I think some 'new' claimants should be making a fuss now, and anyone who has had to wait more than a few extra weeks should be speaking to their MP.

[count orlok]

So, I am in the support group. When/if I get called in for a "medical" (Haven't had an ATOS one yet, the last was for IB back in the noughties), I'll be asking to have it recorded (provided I haven't lost my DLA, then I'll be asking for a home visit).

 

This will obviously take ages to arrange. So in the meantime will I continue to get my ESA at it present rate and conditions?

 

If I still fail I'll just claim carers allowance, as I understand I'd be put on the assessment rate and be expected to go for meetings if I appealed. I know I would not be able to handle this and would more than likely start kicking off.

[reallymadwoman]

So far as I'm aware, whilst you're waiting for a medical you stay on whatever benefit rate you already have. They can't say you're no longer eligible for anything until the assessment takes place, so if you're in the support group that's where you stay.

 

I haven't heard of anyone who is appealing a 'fail' being required to attend meetings, only someone appealing the decision to put them in WRAG rather than Support group.

 

If you want your assessment recorded, it cannot be done at home.

[count orlok]

Not quite sure how that would work then, unless I do what the DWP say is OK to do and record it myself. When would be the best time to tell them it was recorded; before or after the medical, or would it be best to tell them after they have submitted their report?

 

Not sure how much the DWP assessment centre has changed since I was there last, If i still have my DLA and the 3 parking spaces are not all in use I could attend so long as I did not have to wait.

 

Perhaps its not worth bothering if they don't pass me on the ESA50 again.

 

EDIT:

I've just had an idea, perhaps I should send them a transcript to help them with their report?

Edited June 13, 2012 by count orlok