Appealing unpaid fares notice

[emi]

Hi all,

 

it's great that this service exists.

 

i've sent 3 appeals to the RPSS, and they keep rejecting my claims, just wanting some advice.

 

on the 10th of October I traveled on an East coast train service from Edinburgh to London, with a ticket (booked in advance).

 

it was only when I got on the train I realised that I did not have my railcard (though I did have my ticket) – so I went to find the ticket inspector to explain my situation. He told me that he could issue me with an unpaid fares notice, and that I could then take in my tickets and railcard at a later date to have the charges taken off.

 

If I had not been told that I would be able to have the fine removed I would not have stayed on the train, but would have got off at the next station.

 

the fine has gone from 161 to 181. I couldn't even pay it when it was 135 (on the train), I said as much to the ticket inspector, who told me that if i went to the station with my ticket and railcard i could get the fine removed. I clearly could do no such thing in the station, and have been sending sporadic letters to the RPSS.

 

The 'apppeals officer' keeps saying that there are no mitigating circumstances and rejecting my appeal, and another RPSS oficcial has sent me a letter saying that they are advising the rail service to take court proceedings. (which could result in 3 months imprisonment / 1000 fine.)

 

I appreciate that different departments are responding to me, but it is really confusing that they keep giving me contradictory information! And I find it really bizare that they refuse to provide an email address/ telephone number

 

as this is a civil and not a penal case - does this mean that i am not in danger of getting a criminal record?

 

Can you be imprisoned for commiting an administrative fault?

 

Is it worth talking to firends studying Law? i'm in Scotland (where it's different) but the incident did happen here?

 

Thanks for your help in advance

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The industry guys should be along later once they have time and will have advice for you. It's not my area of expertise so will leave it at that for now.

 

My best, HB

[MrGates]

I'm sorry to say that you are in danger of the TOC taking legal action against you, your appeal has been rejected 3 times now and on reading your post they have grounds to do so. You were issued the UPFN as your advanced ticket was only valid with the relevant railcard you had used on your already discounted ticket, the T&c's of that ticket you accepted when you purchased the ticket should have been supplied in a small booklet, and advanced tickets are non refundable. There is no valid reason why the UPFN should be overturned as you failed to produce the railcard when asked, the TOC has been a bit lenient already by issing the UPFN as court proceedings could have been taken against you for this issue. My honest advice now is to pay what RPSS are asking from you or the TOC WILL seek the costs in court.

Edited December 5, 2011 by MrGates

[Old-CodJA]

There are three key points to bear in mind here.

 

1. The rules in relation to Railcards are very clear. If you cannot produce a valid railcard at the time of any ticket check, 'the full single fare is due as if no ticket were held.' That is part of the Terms & Conditions that you accepted when you applied for the Railcard.

 

2. So far as any prosecution is concerned, this is not a civil case. If the notice remains unpaid or not successfully appealed, it may be cancelled and the failure to produce a valid ticket may then be pursued as a summary charge in a criminal Court as either, a breach of Byelaw 18.2 (strict liability), or if the reporting inspector/guard suspects that there was no railcard, or someone else's railcard was used to buy the ticket, then a charge of 'intent to avoid a fare' could be considered (S.5. Regulation of Railways Act (1889))

 

3. The procedural system may be different north of the border, but the offence and legislations are the same. The difference is that in Scotland it would be different people putting the case before a Court. Much depends on where the offence was detected. If you bought the ticket in Scotland, but were checked in England the offence would go normally before an English Court and the decision in that matter would be that of the prosecuting authority.

[timbo58]

The RPSS matter is not 'a fine' only courts can issue fines.

It is the debt owing plus admin fees for late payment (so far).

To be fair, the TOC get very little of any debt passed over to RPSS AFAIAA, RPSS keep the 'lions share' and are a commercial company: so they WILL always chase payments as long as they are viable.

 

When I was 'in the trade' and forced to issue one of these (time consuming, so not very much welcome on a busy train) I would always, but always, ensure I warned the recipient that they should pay it within the 14 (15?) day limit as otherwise the debt would mount until it became worthwhile to take to court.

(Maybe not strictly company policy but I thought it was fair to warn).

 

I don't doubt for a moment that the train manager told you the matter could be cancelled on production of the valid railpass and tickets after your journey: I've seen plenty of staff make the same comments: and 99% knew full well this wasn't the case: however:

a) To write the UPFN is a pain on a busy train and time consuming, even of the passenger has proof of ID etc and is cooperative.

b) Most tocs policy is to issue UPFNs to the next station only: NOT for the whole journey and definitely not to travel onwards on other TOCs services, unless this was the last train of the day and/or you fell into the 'vulnerable passenger' category.

 

The correct procedure being followed however would have meant you off at the next station and having to find your way onwards or home without funds though remember, so although it might appear the staff member was unfair, you left him little choice but to issue this UPFN.

 

I have to agree with the other posters here: pay up now, or pay more later.

[Grotesque]

The 'apppeals officer' keeps saying that there are no mitigating circumstances and rejecting my appeal, and another RPSS oficcial has sent me a letter saying that they are advising the rail service to take court proceedings. (which could result in 3 months imprisonment / 1000 fine.)

 

I appreciate that different departments are responding to me, but it is really confusing that they keep giving me contradictory information!

 

They are not.

If your Appeal is rejected and non-payment ensues, you are liable to a prosecution.

They are in fact giving you the same information in two different ways. I.e.:

 

1) Your Appeal is rejected; and

2) You have not as to this point paid for the journey you made and are therefore liable to be prosecuted for fare evasion.

 

Good luck bro! Let us know what gives.