Cap1 & CCA return

[un1boy]

Un1 - excuse my confusion, but have I become invisible to you on this thread:confused:

 

Oh Ladybird, no you are not at all - what makes you say that? xx

[ladybird17]

well you keep ignoring everything I post:(

[un1boy]

Oohhhh, I've just realised - it's my first cagiversary!

 

I joined in April 2006 - wow, seems like yesterday and SOO much has happened!!

 

Thanks guys and hope we have many more together!!!

[Perseus]

Hi Pers.xx

 

But a S78 request has got nothing to do with renewal of credit token.

 

Sorry - what I meant was, if they cant supply an original copy of the executed agreement as per our requests (s77-79 ooops!) then surely they cannot or would not comply with it on the renewal of a credit token-hence the s85 default?

 

x

[un1boy]

well you keep ignoring everything I post:(

 

Oh, I am sorry - nothing personal at all Ladybird. I think others got there before me............forgive me?

[un1boy]

Sorry - what I meant was, if they cant supply an original copy of the executed agreement as per our requests (s77-79 ooops!) then surely they cannot or would not comply with it on the renewal of a credit token-hence the s85 default?

 

x

 

Got it one fella!

[ladybird17]

Tha'ts ok Un1, forgiven & forgotten;)

 

Pers, my sweetie,

 

that's assuming your card has been renewed, and assuming that we have knocked all the nuts & bolts out of the "credit card mailer" issue

[Perseus]

Nice one - thanks Un1boy!

 

And LadyBird, you scrumptious harlet of cuisine - how could you be ignored

 

Blowing you a kiss from down the road xxxx

 

Thank you darlin x

[ladybird17]

here it comes................yup got it. Thanks Pers - sending one back as long as it can weave it's way around the cones at the Viagra outlet.

[Perseus]

Ouch:eek:

It must have had a head wind on that one - just got a rollickin from the misses - re lipstick xx

[un1boy]

Tha'ts ok Un1, forgiven & forgotten;)

 

Awww, thanks hun!

 

Nice one - thanks Un1boy!

 

No probs mate, anytime.

 

Blowing you a kiss from down the road xxxx

 

Ladybird, same here!! (and sorry for the delay - I have been ironing my suit for tomrrow!)

 

I really am sorry if you think I've been ignoring you - I really haven't meant to.

[un1boy]

Ouch:eek:

It must have had a head wind on that one - just got a rollickin from the misses - re lipstick xx

 

Haha!!

[ladybird17]

yeh - I've got your lipstick on my face, too Pers;)

[un1boy]

yeh - I've got your lipstick on my face, too Pers;)

 

lmao!

[un1boy]

Right guys and gals - I'm gonna finish my glass of OJ and then go up the wooden hill to bedforshire!

 

I have to be up early tomorrow for a meeting so I will speak to you all tomorrow afternoon.

 

Take care and sleep well!!

[ladybird17]

Don't let those old bed-bugs bite Un1

[Dave777]

Hi guys back again.

 

With regards to the non-compliance of a cca request being a criminal offence:

 

Since reading through the entire Consumer Credit Act, since nearly everyone has obviously read Section 167, can I take it nobody has read Section 170?

 

I would urge everybody to read this section immediately and ask yourselves again if this offence is criminal.

 

Further to this, please read the below link, especially the parts under the heading "Civil Penalties"

 

Joint Committee On Human Rights - First Report

 

I would ask Zubo, paulwlton, jonchris and all others that declare this offence to be criminal to read this information and to confirm that their views haven't changed.

[Dave777]

Civil penalties

2.11 The Explanatory Notes to the reintroduced Bill state that "it is not considered that a civil penalty imposed under the new power would amount to a criminal charge within the meaning of Article 6, because a civil penalty may only be imposed on a discrete section of the community (i.e. persons holding a licence under the Consumer Credit Act and persons covered by a group licence), and therefore a civil penalty amounts to a disciplinary or administrative measure necessary for the proper functioning of the licensing system".[21]

2.12 We have considered the Government's argument as to why civil penalties imposed under the Bill would not amount to a criminal charge within the meaning of Article 6. We accept that the nature of an offence or penalty is more likely to be criminal where the rule giving rise to the offence or penalty is of a generally binding character, rather than applicable only to a defined group. Whether proceedings are to be considered civil or criminal under Article 6, however, will depend on three primary factors: the classification of the proceedings in domestic law; the nature of the offence; and the severity of the penalty that may be imposed. The second and third elements of the test carry more weight than the first. 2.13 According to the Courts' case-law, the severity of a potential penalty may in itself be enough to establish the criminal nature of the offence, particularly where it is punitive and deterrent in its purpose. To the extent that penalties of up to £50,000 may be imposed on small lenders for whom a fine of that size is a substantial penalty, we agree with the view of the previous Committee that, in view of the potential size of such civil penalties, there must be a risk that the imposition of such a penalty may in some circumstances be seen as the determination of a criminal charge in Article 6(1) terms, and that the operation of the procedural safeguards should therefore approximate as closely as possible to the standards of criminal due process, including proof to the criminal standard of proof.

[Dave777]

As it has been pointed out to me on a few occasions, this thread is very absorbing with well over 5000 posts.

 

Nearly everybody within this thread is of the understanding that the CCA non-compliance request is a criminal offence. Last night I suffered a backlash from many other caggers for suggesting that it wasn't criminal, there is no penalty of imprisonment and abosultely no basis to report such an offence to the police as suggested by one poster.

 

I stand by all of my comments.

[trevor33]

Hi Trevor

 

Not necessarily. The copy of your agreement that a creditor has to send you as a 2nd copy, shortly after you have signed up, does not have to show any signatures or your name or address and it may be that the copy you have found is a 2nd copy.

 

Have you requested the copy agreement under s77/78 CCA and have they sent anything yet?

 

Let us know what they come back with and we'll give our opinions on it.

 

And having a hurting head is a recognised side effect of perusing this site!! :eek:

 

Regards, Pam

Hi Pam

Thanks for that.

Yes, I have requested agreement under s77/78 CCA, will post when I get copies.

Regards Trevor

[InKogneeToh]

Nice one - thanks Un1boy!

 

And LadyBird, you scrumptious harlet of cuisine - how could you be ignored

 

Blowing you a kiss from down the road xxxx

 

Thank you darlin x

 

Hey! this is a respectable thread! No illicit goings on here please! (Except me and Peter - 'cos he's in training to be considered for inclusion in my next year's Valentine's list as he missed the deadline this year!)

 

:lol::lol:

[InKogneeToh]

As it has been pointed out to me on a few occasions, this thread is very absorbing with well over 5000 posts.

 

Nearly everybody within this thread is of the understanding that the CCA non-compliance request is a criminal offence. Last night I suffered a backlash from many other caggers for suggesting that it wasn't criminal, there is no penalty of imprisonment and abosultely no basis to report such an offence to the police as suggested by one poster.

 

I stand by all of my comments.

 

Hi Dave

 

I may be wrong but it seems to me that the quote you have posted is in relation to offences to do with credit licensing.

 

If not, then how do you explain this (previously posted by Joneshousehold):

 

Schedule 1 states

Quote:

Section - 77(4)

Offence - Failure of creditor under fixed sum credit agreement to supply copies of documents etc.

Mode of prosecution -Summarily

Imprisonment or fine - [Level 4 on the standard scale.]

Section - 78(6)

Offence - Failure of creditor under running-account credit agreement to supply copies of documents etc.

Mode of prosecution - Summarily.

Imprisonment or fine - [Level 4 on the standard scale.]

 

Also s170 is saying that no breach under the Act will incur a civil or criminal sanction except for those expressly provided for by or under the Act (e.g. as above)

 

 

170 No further sanctions for breach of Act

(1) A breach of any requirement made (otherwise than by any court) by or under this Act shall incur no civil or criminal sanction as being such a breach, except to the extent (if any) expressly provided by or under this Act.

 

Regards, Pam

[zubo]

Dave

 

In addition since you clearly have been doing a lot of research - could you give us a link to the actual published bill please.

 

Thanks

 

Z

[tamadus]

hold those horses - what's S85 got to do with a CCA request?

 

Absolutely nothing birdie, and that bottle of scotch is still waiting for you

[InKogneeToh]

Absolutely nothing birdie, and that bottle of scotch is still waiting for you

 

Sorry tam, I think she's run off with Perseus! :o:D