Cap1 & CCA return

[Josie8]

Damn it....have you got a link so I can make sure I check them in future?

 

So, should I write back and advise that I'm not making anymore payments until a Judge has ruled?

 

Also, what about the format of the terms and conditions? They have provided a printout of the online terms and conditions which states: "applicable to agreements after 01 October 2004" surely, it should be a copy of the actual ones that were on the agreement?

 

Yes they should be a copy of your original terms and conditions

[volvo]

Volvo

Can you post the full address of this Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors, because at first search, these solicitors are not registered as a Data Processor with the Information Commissioners Office if that is so ....then Bryan Carter & CO are committing an offence under the Data Protection Act obtaining and further processing information anad Data about you, but I need their full address.

below is copy of initial search of Information Commissioners Office register

 

 

sparkie

 

* There are no entries that match your search criteria.

 

Registration Number

Name Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors

Address

Postcode

Organisation sub-division

 

Hi Sparkie

 

Please find attached cca response and letter head from Bryan Carter & Co

Nothing else was supplied with regards to my CCA request, ie: no terms and conditions statement of account, proof of right to collect such as deed of assignment.

 

Anyone any ideas how i should respond to bryan carter?

 

the 3 pages of attachments will enlarge with a click

[davefirewalker]

Angry cat...

 

hows your MS case going?

 

just had an offer of all the charges +8% paid as a credit to the account and a wipe of the default :)

 

I am of course not going to fully accept their terms

 

and then once the default has been cleared I'm going at them big time

 

Dave

[volvo]

sparkiel

 

bryan carter scanned letter has missed off the bottom line which states that bryan carter & co is a trading style of Crellins Carter Solicitors.

[patch666]

Hi guys, can anybody advise me on this

new to the site, but posted this thread a few weeks ago.

 

Arrow/CBS Default!! WONT REPLY TO CCA REQUEST!!!!!!!

Hi there, I've just registered and feel quite enlightened about the info by you members, thank you.

 

My question is this, i recieved a letter from CBS transcom, saying they were acting on behalf of Arrow Global, who had purchased the debt from paragon, in Oct/Nov 2006. The debt is from 1994!!! (which I was defaulted for circa 1995)

They have threatened me with court action and a charge on my house etc.. etc if I didnt up my payment agreement up from £30 month with paragon to £89.11 with them.

 

I agreed to do this as I am getting on top of my finances and then when I checked my experian file they (ARROW) had defaulted me!! £7300

I rang them and asked why had they defaulted me and there reply was you defaulted in 2004/2005 when I was with Paragon (no default notice issued, i think), i know i missed a few payments but the debt wasnt with Arrow/CBS then, and the default date is 28/02/2007!!

I am now in a position to offer them a full and final settlement and when I rang them to remove this default when I paid it, all I got was "it will show as satisfied, not removed"

I asked when I recieved the default notice from ARROW/CBS (I havent recieved one from CBS/Arrow) and there reply was you will have recieved it from Paragon (which I didnt, as I had a payment plan with them) but cant remember if I got one from universal credit (it was 1995!!) Who actually owns the debt??, is it now null and void having been more than 6 years even though i've been paying money to somebody, incidentally i wasnt contacted about this debt till early 2002 so should it be statute barred?? are they taknig the P**** for defaulting me and what letters might I need to send.

I am applying for a mortgage soon, so I need this sorting out.

Where do I go from here, I am willing to pay what I owe, but surely the default can be removed,(or the debt) at the moment I have been defaulted twice (although the 1995/6 one has fell off my Experian credit file), but how can I sort this out.

 

regards, feeling stressed

 

patch.................... ............

 

UPDATE "lookinforinfo" told me to CCA CBS, i have done that, also pointed out that you could be only defaulted once for one debt and if they didnt remove the default I would report them to TS etc. got 1 phone call, told them I was only taking written correspondance, havent heard anything since, but default still showing on Experian, no CCA nothing, 12 days has passed, what happens now???????

 

PLEASE HELP..............VERY CONFUSED

 

 

patch.................... ...

[un1boy]

This fails the test and must be

 

So, the T&C cannot be current, and they must not only be those issued at the time of the alleged agreement they must also be proven to relate to the agreement. I have issued a default notice to a Creditor using that exact argument, details elsewhere.

 

Z

 

Cheers. I am going to write to them to say that the terms and conditions are invaliod as they are online based and should have been supplied with the agreement, in wirting.

 

Z - did you want me to email u the OFT guidelines?

[angry cat]

Angry cat...

 

hows your MS case going?

 

just had an offer of all the charges +8% paid as a credit to the account and a wipe of the default :)

 

I am of course not going to fully accept their terms

 

and then once the default has been cleared I'm going at them big time

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave

 

All is very quiet on the MS front. I am waiting for the response to come back from peterbards letter to the Right Hon. Ian MaCartney/DTI before I make my next move.

 

Good news to hear that you have had a settlement offer from MS.

Be careful regarding the default removal though! Because when I settled with them they removed my default, however once I began battling with them re: CCA MS reregistered the default and now refuse to remove it!!!

 

I guess that they will follow the same course of action with you...obviously retaliatory action.

 

AC

 

p.s. When I settled with MS it was unconditional and I refused to sign any doc. as I knew that there was going to be trouble ahead. I claimed charges, contractual interest @15% plus 8%

[maybelline]

thats interesting re ICO register! I cannot find Westcot on there, do they have another name anyone?

[monopoly23]

A friend has given me an agreement from Direct Auto Finance (Yes Car Credit) to check is enforceability. From first look, I can see that it is a true copy of the original.

 

1)The signatures are on the first page but no date. They have also signed the second page, along with DAF who dated it 21/04/05. The two DAF sigs on the two pages are signed by different people.

 

2)It is two agreements on one page, both signed under each

 

3)The car sale part is called "CONDITIONAL SALE AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974"

 

4) The 'optional' insurance part is called "CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974"

 

5) The car part has the termination rights, but the insurance has a specific note saying that "the right of termination mentioned in 2.2 only applies to that part of the agreement which related to the purchase of the vehicle. The exercise of your right of termination will have no effect on your obligation to pay the Insurance Installments."

 

6)Even though it's headed 'Additional Optional Insurances', she was told at the time that she wouldn't get the car if she didn't take insurance.

 

DAF of YYC whatever you want to call them, are trying to claw back as much money as they can get. They have already told her a year or so ago, that if she payed £4000, she would owe no more for the car. So she did and now owns the car outright.

 

They have now written to say they will accept £500 to clear a balance of £1976.40, but only if it's paid in full and by the 21st June.

It also says that "If you fail to comply with the settlement terms, the discount offer will be revoked and the full balance will become immediately due and payable".

She has been paying £75 a month for this insurance since she paid off the car, so why would the full balance become payable?

 

Can someone please comment on the points I've mentioned?

I think that as there was no cancellation rights, this is unenforceable and she should be able to claim from them for it being mis-sold, not pay them £500, but I'm not sure.

 

Sorry for massive post....

 

Can anyone comment on this please?

[un1boy]

Prescribedterms:

 

8.3 What are the prescribedterms?

 

The prescribedterms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

• amount of credit – see Q8.4

• credit limit – see Q8.5

• rate of interest – see Q8.6

• repayments – see Q8.9.

 

Ian, which document did you get this from?

 

My agreement has the limit info but not amount of credit - it's from Egg, could it be classed as the same thing for a credit card?

[Josie8]

Ian, which document did you get this from?

 

My agreement has the limit info but not amount of credit - it's from Egg, could it be classed as the same thing for a credit card?

 

8.1 What are ‘prescribed terms’?

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

• amount of credit – see Q8.

• credit limit – see Q8.5
  
• rate of interest – see Q8.6
  
• repayments – see Q8.9.

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

So if and when you get your CCA reply, it is so important that you check its validity!

 

The document is here:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...it/oft786a.pdf

 

 

[un1boy]

Guys, I've just had a thought:

 

If a creditor provides an agreement as part of a sec 77-79 request but no terms and conditions then surely they won't be able to supply them at a later date (ie at court), by virtue of 127(1)

 

172 Statements by creditor or owner to be binding

 

(1) A statement by a creditor or owner is binding on him if given under—

 

section 77(1),

 

section 78(1),

 

and other sections.

 

So, this means that if they supply an agreement over 2 pages with nothing to link them and no statement in theri letter to say they are linked, then surely they wouldn't be able to show a court that the agreement is on the same page and thus the prescribed terms are on the sig doc.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Comment please

[un1boy]

8.1 What are ‘prescribed terms’?

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

 

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

 

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

• amount of credit – see Q8.

• credit limit – see Q8.5
  
• rate of interest – see Q8.6
  
• repayments – see Q8.9.

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

So if and when you get your CCA reply, it is so important that you check its validity!

 

The document is here:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...it/oft786a.pdf

 

 

 

Ok thanks- so, amount of credit is only needed for loans and credit limit for credit cards....got it.

[un1boy]

One more thing:

 

If the agreement was signned April 2004 cancellation notice doesn't need to be supplied does it?

 

And, does the follwoing statement actually make this an applicaion form?

 

This agreement will only be binding on us when we have completed and are satisfied with our final checks and other searches, and you have signed and returned the credit agreement to us.

[rich2568]

Hi Uni

 

This Egg agreement is very dodgy. Bearing in mind no T & C`s come with the copy of the CCA from their colicitors- my argument to the judge will be I did not see them before I signed. Plus of course there is the argument:-

Default charges are a required term, not a prescribed term - this would make it improperly executed, and open to enforcement with the courts leave

 

See CCR 1983, SI 1553, Schedule 3 (10)

 

Nowhere on my agreement are the default charges either!!

[un1boy]

Hi Uni

 

This Egg agreement is very dodgy. Bearing in mind no T & C`s come with the copy of the CCA from their colicitors- my argument to the judge will be I did not see them before I signed. Plus of course there is the argument:-

Default charges are a required term, not a prescribed term - this would make it improperly executed, and open to enforcement with the courts leave

 

See CCR 1983, SI 1553, Schedule 3 (10)

 

Nowhere on my agreement are the default charges either!!

 

 

Thanks mate, I would like to know how they can prove the sig doc is linked if the pages can't be linked. Also, the actual agreement says "you agree to be bound by the terms and conditions enclosed" so, they should supply those particular terms, not a copy they have printed online. Would you agree?

 

If they tell me they don't send them out, is that not a contradiction and surely what is written in the agreement would take precidence.

 

They haven't supplied a statement of account either. Do you really think they would take this to court? Would a Judge not need to see that the prescribed terms are on the signature document, which, is it's over 2 pages and nothign links them, they can't prove?

 

Do you have you got a copy of CCR 1983, SI 1553, Schedule 3 (10) or do you know where I can one?

[un1boy]

Guys, have i stated the correct section in the follwoing:

 

The prescribed terms must be on the signature document: The two pages you have sent me cannot be linked together so I cannot verify the document you have sent as complying with section 60 of the Consumer Credit Act 1977 (CCA) I would think that a Judge would have trouble confirming this too.

Or is it sec 61? I get confused.

[Josie8]

Thanks mate, I would like to know how they can prove the sig doc is linked if the pages can't be linked. Also, the actual agreement says "you agree to be bound by the terms and conditions enclosed" so, they should supply those particular terms, not a copy they have printed online. Would you agree?

 

If they tell me they don't send them out, is that not a contradiction and surely what is written in the agreement would take precidence.

 

They haven't supplied a statement of account either. Do you really think they would take this to court? Would a Judge not need to see that the prescribed terms are on the signature document, which, is it's over 2 pages and nothign links them, they can't prove?

 

Do you have you got a copy of CCR 1983, SI 1553, Schedule 3 (10) or do you know where I can one?

 

 

If they haven't supplied the original terms & conditions nor no statement of account then they are still in default

[un1boy]

If they haven't supplied the original terms & conditions nor no statement of account then they are still in default

 

Thanks for confirming that Josie.

 

What i am now trying to establish is that:

 

1. The pages of the agreement can't be linked so does that mean the it is completely unenforcable as the prescribed terms aren't on the sig doc.

 

2. The fact they haven't supplied the original terms etc means that they can't just produce them now and say they aren't in default, by virtue of:

 

172 Statements by creditor or owner to be binding

 

(1) A statement by a creditor or owner is binding on him if given under—

 

section 77(1),

 

section 78(1),

 

and other sections.

 

Which would mean that the court could only take a view on what they have supplied me, not what they then supply? (If that makes sense?)

[patch666]

HELP!!!!

I CCA'd Arrow Global on 1st June, no reply in the 12 days, no phone calls letters, nothing. Gets a letter today from Cope solicitors(?) basically saying " you have ignored all our attempts to contact you (never recieved/heard nothing) you need to contact this office immediately regarding upping the payments on your account to our clients suitable level, we are issuing court proceedings in 10 days etc etc etc.

I have paid them what they were asking till I CCA'd them, they have defaulted me on my credit file, and still no CCA paperwork nothing

 

WHAT DO I DO NOW!!!

panicing patch...................

[un1boy]

HELP!!!!

 

I CCA'd Arrow Global on 1st June, no reply in the 12 days, no phone calls letters, nothing. Gets a letter today from Cope solicitors(?) basically saying " you have ignored all our attempts to contact you (never recieved/heard nothing) you need to contact this office immediately regarding upping the payments on your account to our clients suitable level, we are issuing court proceedings in 10 days etc etc etc.

I have paid them what they were asking till I CCA'd them, they have defaulted me on my credit file, and still no CCA paperwork nothing

 

WHAT DO I DO NOW!!!

 

panicing patch...................

 

Patch, don't panic mate - just write back explaining that they are efault of your CCA request and that they are unable to take any action agains the account until the agreement is produced. Also advise them that any legal they take against you will be defended by producing a copy of your request along with recorded delivery labels etc.....

 

Then, you watch them squirm!!

 

Point out that you've not received any othe letters from them and you don't appreciate aggressive, bullying letters beuing sent and if you receive anymore before your cca request has been satisfied you will report the solicitors to the law society!

 

[Rubymay]

Hi Everyone

 

Sorry to go off on another tangent but I've been in correspondence with NatWest for quite an extended period about a loan that my sister and I took out that related to a business we were running in 2000/01. They kept staving off my original request for agreements under the CCA with apologiesfor not being able to locate them etc. They are now saying that as the loan was to our limited company and that we signed personal guarantees it is not regulated by the CCA.

 

They have not supplied copies of the personal guarantees (I am going to request them) and I wondered if what they are saying is correct or if, as they are now claiming the money as if it were a personal loan (in other words the business is now irrelevant as they obviously can't claim from a limited company that has folded), whether it is in fact regulated by the CCA.

 

Incidentally they took no action on this loan for over three years and we assumed it had died with the company.

 

This is pretty technical I know, but I wondered if anyone had experienced a similar situation or at least some knowledge of whether NatWest is correct in its claim.

 

Hope you can help.

[patch666]

Hi UN1BOY

 

who do I write to, Arrow or the Solicitors, sorry for being a bit thick

 

patch

[un1boy]

Hi UN1BOY

 

who do I write to, Arrow or the Solicitors, sorry for being a bit thick

 

patch

 

Well you write to the debt collector or orginal creditor for the cca request.

 

but as the solicitors have been threatening u with legal action, i would write to them to explain the situation.

[un1boy]

Hi Everyone

 

Sorry to go off on another tangent but I've been in correspondence with NatWest for quite an extended period about a loan that my sister and I took out that related to a business we were running in 2000/01. They kept staving off my original request for agreements under the CCA with apologiesfor not being able to locate them etc. They are now saying that as the loan was to our limited company and that we signed personal guarantees it is not regulated by the CCA.

 

They have not supplied copies of the personal guarantees (I am going to request them) and I wondered if what they are saying is correct or if, as they are now claiming the money as if it were a personal loan (in other words the business is now irrelevant as they obviously can't claim from a limited company that has folded), whether it is in fact regulated by the CCA.

 

Incidentally they took no action on this loan for over three years and we assumed it had died with the company.

 

This is pretty technical I know, but I wondered if anyone had experienced a similar situation or at least some knowledge of whether NatWest is correct in its claim.

 

Hope you can help.

 

I'm not sure mate- I don't think the CCA would cover a loan made to a limited company - have a look through the OFT guidelines....if it was over 25k then it would not be covered anyway.