Apex Credit Management creating more debt

[Zaphyre]

Hello there,

 

I wonder if I could ask get some advice please?

 

I took out a consolidation loan in 2005 with Natwest bank of £13k.

 

In 2006 I split with my partner and became homeless, lost my job and was unable to keep up my repayments.

 

The debt spiralled to over £17k by the time it was passed on to debt collectors. This was a bad time for me.

 

BCW soon contacted me saying they had bought the debt and some time later Apex credit management contacted me saying they now own it.

 

As I was in receipt of benefits I started paying them £5 per month and have been doing so every month without fail ever since.

 

I am now a single mother so still on benefits so havent been able to pay anymore than that per month.

 

In May of this year Apex started calling me and sending me letters saying my account was in default and if I did not pay they would take action against me, possibly take me to court.

 

I couldn't understand it, but after speaking to them they now seem to think that I have two debts with them.

 

One for £16k which is the original debt and one for nearly £18k.

 

I have no idea where this second debt has come from.

 

They said I took it out in May 2010 with Natwest Bank.

I have pointed out that it is highly unlikely that Natwest would give me another loan of that amount after not paying my first one and while I am on benefits.

 

I spoke to one helpful guy who said it looks like a mistake and he was referring it back to Royal Bank of Scotland?

 

since then I get called atleast twice a week and recieve letters to say my account is in default.

 

Every person I speak to seems to have no knowledge of any correspondence I have had with them before

and every time they tell me I need to pay the amount in full and ask if I have a debit card I can pay with.

 

When I tell them I do not owe this money, they just created this new debt, they tell me to prove it.

 

I have asked them to prove I owe this debt by providing signed copies of the original contract.

They have told me that as the debt orginated back to 2005 they no longer have the signed copy.

This makes no sense as they said the second debt was taken out in 2010, so now they are saying I have to write to them and pay £1 so they can investigate.

I am assuming they are talking about a CCA?

 

I am so confused and sick of all the letters and phonecalls I am getting from these people!

Do Apex own the debt or are they just working on behalf of Royal Bank of Scotland?

 

I hope I have made sense

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

sadly you are falling for the biggest spoof in the book.

they got you to cough on a debt and became a cash cow

they thought they'd try their luck and milk you for more

 

STOP USING THE PHONE TO DCA's

 

they have no legal powers to demand ANYTHING off you

and even less power to do anything about it!

 

check your cra file

if these debts do not show....stop all payments

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Thankyou for your reply at this hour!

 

I thought this might be the case, I couldnt see that it was true. When they call in future I will tell them I will deal with them in writing only. I have done this before, but I found they still called anyway and in the letters they send they dont explain what the matter is about, just threaten me with legal action for not paying.

 

I will check my credit reference then.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

okn great

just remember

they have no legal powers at all

 

dx

[paulwlton]

Send the CCA request, It may also be worth sending an DSAR.

[Zaphyre]

Hiya!

 

I have had a response from Natwest to my CCA request. The letter says...

 

We regret to advise you that the Loan Agreement form has been misfiled and, despite searching our records, we have been unable to loacte it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required.

 

We appreciate that, under Section 77(4) of the consumer credit act, we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan should you decide not to meet your obligations under the loan. However, we believe that you should continue to make repayments as the agreement remains valid. You should note that your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies as Section 77(4) only prevents us from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Please note that if we do not receive an acceptable repayment offer, we may take such actions as are legally permitted to recover the outstanding debt.

 

What actions are legally permitted out of interest?

 

So what now? Do I just carry on paying money to Apex? or do I stop paying or what do I do? Please help me somebody, thankyou

 

I dont think it would be wise to stop paying as surely if I did they would miraculously find the agreement?

 

Thanks

[paulwlton]

Hiya!

 

I have had a response from Natwest to my CCA request. The letter says...

 

We regret to advise you that the Loan Agreement form has been misfiled and, despite searching our records, we have been unable to loacte it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required.

 

We appreciate that, under Section 77(4) of the consumer credit act, we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan should you decide not to meet your obligations under the loan. However, we believe that you should continue to make repayments as the agreement remains valid. You should note that your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies as Section 77(4) only prevents us from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Please note that if we do not receive an acceptable repayment offer, we may take such actions as are legally permitted to recover the outstanding debt.

 

What actions are legally permitted out of interest?

 

So what now? Do I just carry on paying money to Apex? or do I stop paying or what do I do? Please help me somebody, thankyou

 

I dont think it would be wise to stop paying as surely if I did they would miraculously find the agreement?

 

Thanks

 

If you stop payments they'll trash your credit file but, if it's already trashed why continue to pay?.....they can't enforce whilst in default.

[dx100uk]

iwell they wont have one will they

 

its over 6yrs and has been distroyed!!

 

 

what was the outcome of your cra file check?

this is the important bit here

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Thanks for your help guys!

 

I havent checked my credit file yet as I had my free trial 6 years ago! and now they want £15 per month, soooo I think you can write to them for a one off report for £2? I will do it that way and I am going to write to them with the copy of the letter from the bank and ask them to remove the default from my credit file and see what happens. I am also going to write to Apex with a copy of the letter and say I have no recollection of the debt.

[Zaphyre]

Hi,

 

I need a little advice please

 

To cut a long story short I have been paying a debt collection agency since 2006. Last year, out of the blue they came up with another debt that I knew nothing about and asked me to get a CCA from the original lender. I did the CCA to Natwest and they wrote back to me about a loan from 2005 (which was the original loan I was paying the DCA for, they seemed to duplicate it for some reason), but said that they could not locate the credit agreement so the loan was unenforceable, but I still had to pay it off.

 

I have checked my credit file and it is showing on there.

 

Is there anyway I can get this debt cleared from my credit file if it is unenforceable?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

un-en wont make it go away

just means court cannot be used

 

now the one you are paying, does that show on your CRA file.

 

something smells here.

 

tell us some more about it.

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Thankyou, I will tell you the whole story! I did post about it before, but cant find the post, sorry I am new here.

 

In 2005, I took out a consolidation loan with Natwest for me and my partner. I made the expensive mistake of putting it all in my name because he had bad credit rating and when we split up it all became mine! I lost my job and couldn't pay, so it went into default. It got sold to BCW first of all and I was paying them £5 per month. Then it got sold onto Apex Credit Management who I have been paying £5 per month to ever since 2007. Last year Apex started chasing me for another loan I knew nothing about. I sent a CCA to Natwest and it turned out that they also knew nothing about the second loan so thats all good, but the original loan I have been paying £5 per month for is unenforceable as they are unable to locate my credit agreement.

 

I have checked my credit file and the loan is there and is showing as Default.

 

I am just wondering what to do now really?

[dx100uk]

the debt that does not show does not need paying

 

as for the one you are paying, does that show?

an do they have a cca?

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Yes it shows and no they cannot locate the cca

[dx100uk]

when did you start paying the £5PCM and whos name is against the debt on the cra

and is the sum outstanding going down

 

i'm minded to say stop paying

no cca = no pay!

 

there is something fishy going on here & i've not spotted it yet.

 

it might be time to SAR natwest

 

i have a sneaky suspision they wrote the debt off years ago

and apex or whomever are spoofing you into paying.

 

something smells

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Its all confusing me so much!! I am losing sleep over this lol

 

Lets see I started paying £5 per month in March 2007 (or around then) and its my name against the debt. The sum is going down by £5 each month yes but it still defaults. It has a black square with a D in it to make me feel extra ashamed!!

 

I got the letter from Natwest and it says:

 

Thankyou for your recent correspondence dated 22 October 2011.

 

We regret to advise you that the Loan Agreement form has been misfiled and, despite searching our records, we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required.

 

We appreciate that, under section 77(4) of the Consumer Credit Act, we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan should you decide not to meet your obligation under the loan. However, we believe that you should continue to make repayments as the agreement remains valid. You should note that your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies as Section 77(4) only prevents us from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Please note that if we do not receive an acceptable repayment offer, we may take such action as are legally permitted to recover the outstanding debt.

[dx100uk]

they are basically saying, we cant force you to pay

there are no LEGAL routes left

just dca's

 

me thinks they dont know nor are getting or have ever gotten ANY payments

from hillies..

 

sadly what i thought

 

you've been cash cowed

 

stop paying now.

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Thankyou, I will on my credit file it says that the debt is being reported until March 2013. Does that mean that after that I will have no more defaults on my file?

[Zaphyre]

A default is reported to the CRA each month. I know defaults stay on there for 6 years. So if the reporting wills top in March 2013, will the last default reported stay on for another 6 years? or will it all come off of my file? Does that make sense?

[dx100uk]

how can ANYONE mark your file when to all LEGAL purposes

the debt does not exist.

 

you need to phone or write to natwest and

specifically & ONLY ask the question

when was my last payment please

 

i'd be minded to write

then when they say XX date [more than 6yrs ago]

 

you copy that letter to the CRA

and ask why is this debt still showing.

 

i know you've paid hilies

and they dont need a cca to mark your cra

but

if it was written off or terminated

they should not be processing your data at all.

 

might get it removed from your credit file altogether.

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Actually, they attached a letter saying missed payments started on October 2006. So I can write to the CRA with this info? Is there a template letter I can use.

 

Thanks so much for your help! This is stressing me big time )

[dx100uk]

you are prob getting MARKERS

that the account is in default [late/low payment etc]

 

there can only be ONE default

that will be the one ending mar 2013

[dx100uk]

Actually, they attached a letter saying missed payments started on October 2006. So I can write to the CRA with this info? Is there a template letter I can use.

 

Thanks so much for your help! This is stressing me big time )

 

who are they

 

dx

[Zaphyre]

Sorry 'they' are Natwest

[dx100uk]

ok

right so missed payments started oct 06

so 6 ts after that, it would have gone D on the CRA system anyhow.

 

NW checked paperwork for enforcement

found now.

sold the debt on a phishing list

hillies brought it

sent a letter

caught you as a mug

you started paying

where we are now.

 

two schools of though here;

 

it wont go till 6yrs fom your last £5 payment

or it will go from 6yrs since last natwest payment.

 

dx