Changing claim amount from Prelim to LBA

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Hi everyone

This is my first posting, what a great site... We currently have two nationwide accounts which we have held for over 6 years, both accounts have an authorised overdrafts on each £1,000 on one and £2,000 on another. We generally live off our overdrafts (yikes, I know!). We have sent off and received all the information from Nationwide regarding our charges and I'm now working through them and inputting the information onto the wonderful spreadsheets - the question is... how can I work out how much is 'authorised' interest charges and how much is 'unauthorised' interest charges?

I'm about to send off our first letter about the charges (the one before LBA) but want to get my figures correct.

We are currently in the process of opening another bank account and moving our meagre savings into another bank account - all thanks to this site - I really don't think I would have had the balls to do this without everyones help - so a big thank you.

Any suggestions anyone?

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Hi Bill

 

Thanks so much for the reply. You're right! It is SO hard to work out. What I actually ended up doing was inputting the info into the complex charges spreadsheet and I think that worked things out for me, but you're completely right as I don't think it worked out to much at all.

I've been all over the site - which is just brilliant - reading hundreds of threads to try and get up to speed on what I am doing.

I sent out my initial prelim letters (x2) to Charles Bacon by recorded delivery on the 6 Sept and am now waiting for my 'yeah, whatever, get lost' letter, if I haven't received this (or when I do) I take it I send out my LBA on 21 Sept? All in all I'm claiming over two accounts which tots up to an amazing £2,300 (without the 8%) I knew me and the hubby were bad but I'm shocked it is so much. We are also in the process of opening some parachute accounts too.

I think I am playing the waiting game at the moment - but like everyone else I'm convinced we'll by the first who have to go to court!

Thanks for the support - will keep you posted!

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Thanks Dolly,

Thanks bill-k,

I've just spent a considerable amount of time reading through the "A New Way of Looking at Interest" thread and I have to say my head really hurts! It really has boiled my brain!

I'm still unsure as to which way to go, at the beginning of this exercise I was content with just claiming back my charges and accepting the 8% interest from the courts as a bonus! (If I were to win of course...) but now I'm not so sure.

Unfortunately, I've been unable to download Mindzai's spreadsheet for compound interest so not sure what the difference is likely to be although our claims do go back a full 6 years.

I am going to give this some real thought over the next few days to be really sure as to the basis of claim against NW - I have to wait until the 21 Sept to send my LBAs - but I feel I may go down the 8% route (as I'm a bit of a wuss!) and follow the tried and tested method - unfortunately, as we are always using our authorised overdraft it just confuses the whole matter - to me anyway!

bill-k how are you progressing? what stages are you up to?

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wow bill-k you're keeping busy! good for you keep us updated on your progress, UKAviator, I'm about to download the new vampiress spreadsheets and go from there.

I'm not too sure why I was unable to download Mindzai's spreadsheet - not sure whether it's because I'm using an apple mac instead of pc...

Off to do my inputting now.. I may be some time...

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Arrghhh - right! Got that out of my system

I have finally come to an 'executive' decision after much deliberation and messing about with various spreadsheets.

I have tried to use both the wonderful vampiress spreadsheets on google and I've also taken a look at Mindzai's spreadsheet and inputted all my details and I have to admit it makes no sense at all

I've read and read and read loads of threads on this whole site (I think I need to go to CAG annoymous as I'm always on it) the spreadsheet that makes perfect sense to me is the 8% simple interest.

The problem I have been encountering is because the hubby and I live on our authorised overdrafts it is difficult to work out what amount I can charge contractual interest on.

Therefore if I am ever the one who has to go to court I know that I understand the basis of my court action and the reasoning behind the 8%.

My argument for being a thicko when it comes to figures is the creative job I am in and I use the other side of my brain....

I have to admit when the spreadsheets began showing figures of about 17K I thought - hhhmmm - maybe not. Sorry guys I'm too much of a wimp but I applaud each and every one of you who is going for it - I'm so rooting for Mindzai and Lucid - see there post regarding LTSB.

Sending my LBA out tomorrow - still no word from NW regarding my prelim - but hey - Not bovvered!

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thanks Dolly for the quick reply

I'm not too sure that my figures are correct though when I'm inputting the information - the figure seems way too high - sorry to be such a pain but is there anybody out there who could take a look at my spreadsheet? I think that I'm charging contractual interest on an authorised overdraft amount. I'm due to send my LBAs out tomorrow and would want all the info to tie in together.

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Thanks bill-k and dolly,

I'm going to go through the spreadsheets again to double check everything is correct in the figures then I'll PM you both (once I've worked out how to do it!) - thanks guys - I'm feeling braver already...

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Hi Guys - back again - I've been catching up on taylormandy as dolly recommended and rather than work through vampiress google spreadsheet - she just changed the % amount in the simple spreadsheet

Re: A New Way of Looking at Interest- 1st successful Claim - N'wide

by taylormandy - sorry not sure how you can link to other threads.

 

Anybody know what the current unauthorised interest rate is for a flex account with NW?

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Thanks B I'm not a complete novice when it comes to spreadsheets so I kinda get where you're coming from with the formulas, I've PM'd Dolly who is taking a quick look at it for me and she not too sure about it so I'm going to try and work through your formulas above - thanks for the info as aways

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Hi everyone - I've been reading the debate regarding compounded contractual interest with great interest and the case of taylormandy who successfully claimed this back with NW - in light of this I have decided to claim this back also and have spent the last few days reading up as much as possible to try and get my head around it.

 

I orginally sent my prelim letter on 6 Sept claiming charges and interest only on two accounts, to which I've not heard a sausage back from NW. I came to the figures below using the complex spreadsheets in the templates library.

 

Acc1 = £1,221.50 in charges + £49.81 interest on penalties = £1271.31 total

Acc2 = £970.00 in charges + £65.76 interest on penalties = £1035.76 total

 

However, I am just about to send my LBA but would like to claim compounded contractual interest on my charges only (not the interest as quite frankly I can't get my head around it at all - but this bit I do understand:))

 

I've worked through the figures using Vampiress google spreadsheets (thanks vamp) and have now come to the following conclusion

 

Acc1 = £1,221.50 in charges + £1,135.40 compounded contractual interest on penalties (24.9%) = £2,356.90 total

Acc2 = £970.00 in charges + £971.17 compounded contractual interest on penalties (24.9%) = £1,941.17 total

 

I'm sending out my LBA and I want to change the amount I'm claiming from my premim letter to take the the new figures.

Has anyone any suggestions on what I should add to my LBA letter? I'm thinking along the lines of -

" since my previous letter I now understand that the principle of mutuality, or reciprocity, applies to the aforementioned contract and will be claiming back compounded contractual interest on these charges"

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I've spent the last few days knee deep in spreadsheets.

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Hi Isiris - I don't mind at all however I'm not at your stage yet - I know some people on here have been advising caution on changing at later stages (so as not to appear greedy to the courts) - love to help you out but I'm afraid I'm not sure of the process once MCOL has been issued.

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thanks Dolly, LBAs are ready to roll and going out in the post tonight - tee hee...

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LBAs going out in the post tonight with compounded contractual interest on penalty charges, then the clock begins again...

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to be honest bill-k, I didn't understand applying the compound interest onto the 'complex' spreadsheets so I've decided just to use Vampiress spreadsheet (SIMPLE VERSION - Throughout claim with compounded contractual interest) as I could get my head around that one - it certainly makes a difference - fingers crossed I've got my sums right - I've also changed some of the wording on my LBAs to incorporate the new amount which Dolly has checked over - she's a star!

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Hi bill-k, I was just wondering how you where progressing with your claims? Have you heard anything from NW yet? Did you receive a 'yeah whatever' letter?

I finally decided to go for the compounded contractual interest at 24.9% and the claim went from about £2,200 to about £4,300 - which was interesting

I've not heard anything from NW regarding my prelim or LBA which I sent 5 days ago so I'm just playing the waiting game.

I am hoping to prepare my MCOL so that I can literally press the button when the 14 days are up ( I may give them 15 days cos I'm nice like that!) and was wondering how you had worded your MCOL with regards to the compounded interest? I realise I can't claim the standard 8% if I go down the 24.9% route. Both my parachute accounts are up and running with OD's on them (phew). So I'm really ready to rock and roll.

Any help would be really appreciated - thanks.

I'm on a roll now as I've started down this road with MBNA too!

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Hi Bill-k! Royal Courts of Justice *big grin* Get you! Make sure you get your suit in the dry cleaners as if they want their day in court.

Yes, I have to admit I'm feeling a tad empowered at the moment - I've just been reading All8pne thread and he got paid out from NW really quick - so I'm counting the days down until MCOL.

I'm not sure whether to use MCOL or N1 claim form for the next stage. This is partly because I'm claiming for the compunded contractual interest I'm not too sure of the wording I'm going to use.

All the examples on this site, that people have kindly given us, are for the 8% interest to which I know I can't claim alongside the compounded contractual interest. However, I know that Mindzai included a fall back option to the effect of- can I have this amount (xx%), or this (xx%) if not I'll have the 8% instead. But personally I don't feel comfortable with that. I also know that you're pushed for space on the MCOL form.

Any ideas my mate? :?

I've still not heard anything at all from NW - no letters, nothing on two accounts - I know they've received the letters as they were signed for by recorded delivery.

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ha ha - and look at the skeletons in Mr Tarrants cupboard (dirty ticket!)

 

Yes, makes sense - anything that makes life easier for the judges - I'm starting to prepare the details of my N1 form.

Forgive me if I'm asking another dumb question - but can I use the PDF file of the N1 form that Bankfodder kindly supplied? Or do I pop down to my local court to pick one up? :-|

 

Had a bit of a shock today too! I checked our bank accounts online and saw a cheque deposit that I wasn't expecting at all - phoned hubby in great excitement - thinking wow this is it and I've not even filed yet! Only to be told by hubby that he'd put it in

 

memo to self: get these bank charges off your mind!

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Hi, I'm back after fretting about filling in my N1 Form. Thanks bill-k for the previous info, I've taken it all on board and I'm going submit my claim on Monday. I can't believe how quickly some people have been paid out - great news, I just hope I haven't missed the boat.

 

I'd be really grateful if someone could please check my particulars of claim as I'm nervous as to whether I have filled it in correctly as I'm going for compounded contractual interest at the unauthorised rate of 24.9%. I'm not going to use a fallback authorised rate as this is 7.75% (may as well go for the s69 rate of 8%)

 

I've filled in my N1 form and entered the following information

 

Brief details of claim

RECLAIMING UNLAWFUL BANK CHARGES TAKEN OVER A SIX YEAR PERIOD ON TWO ACCOUNTS HELD WITH THE DEFENDANT

 

Particulars of Claim

 

In XXXXX County Court

 

BETWEEN

HUBBY and ME

AND

Nationwide Building Society

 

1.The Claimants have, between them, a joint account XXXXXXXX and another account XXXXXXXX ("the Accounts") with the Defendant which were opened on or around [DATE].

 

2. During the period in which the Accounts have been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Accounts in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimants and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimants understand that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimants.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimants contend that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Accounts, as outlined in the attached schedule, are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimants; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 section 15. The Defendant has declined to justify the charges.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and schedule 2(1)(e), The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 section 4 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimants claim:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £2,191.50 and interest charged thereon in the sum of £115.57;

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) the additional costs incurred by the Claimant in the writing and sending of letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £4, as set out in the attached list of costs.

 

d) the Claimants claim contractual interest at a rate of 24.9% per annum, from the date of each transaction to 9th October 2006, which is £2,151.31, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimants further claim interest, on the resulting total of £4,342.81, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £0.95 per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. The Claimants hold that this applies to unauthorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to unauthorised drawings by the Claimants. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimants claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s unauthorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimants claim interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from 20th September 2000 to 9th October 2006, which is £175.32 and continuing until payment or the date of judgement at a daily rate of £0.52.

 

We believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

 

I'm enclosing a list of costs e.g. S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) fees x 2 = £20, Recorded delivery postage cost x4 =£4.00 and also enclosing a schedule of charges for both of the accounts.

 

I understand that I need to print off and sign 3 copies of everything. Can I then take these down and hand them into our local court by hand with my payment of £120 or do I have to post them with a cheque?

 

Thanks in advance for your help and guidance :o xx

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Thanks Bill-k as always for the encouragement although I think you may have already departed on your hollybobs - you never know I may have my dosh by the time you get back!!

 

I've taken your advice on board and changed some of the particulars - could anyone else possibly have a quick check over it for me please?

 

 

5. Accordingly the Claimants claim:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £2,191.50 and interest charged thereon in the sum of £115.57;

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) the additional costs incurred by the Claimant in the writing and sending of letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £4, as set out in the attached list of costs.

 

d) the Claimants claim contractual interest compounded daily at an annual rate of 24.9% per annum, from the date of each transaction to 9th October 2006, which is £2,151.31, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimants further claim interest, on the resulting total of £4,342.81, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £0.95 per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. The Claimants hold that this applies to unauthorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to unauthorised drawings by the Claimants. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimants claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s unauthorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimants claim contractual interest compounded daily at an annual rate of 7.75% per annum, from the date of each transaction to 9th October 2006, which is £531.52, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimants further claim interest, on the resulting total of £2,723.02, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £0.59 per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on authorised drawings from the account. The Claimants hold that this applies to authorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to authorised drawings by the Claimants. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimants claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s authorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimants claim interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from the date of each transaction to 9th October 2006, which is £175.32 and continuing until payment or the date of judgement at a daily rate of £0.52.

 

Dolly, lovely to see you're back - if you get the chance to take a look I'd really appreciate it, however I know you have loads on your plate at the minute.

 

Any mods care to comment - thanks again people - I'm a tad nervous as i'm going for the jugular with compounded contractual...

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Hi everyone just thought I'd let you know that I filed my claim today against NW with my local court - so I'm £120 out of pocket - I just hope this goes through as planned :o

Once I've got my claim number I'll pm a mod with the details - wish me luck...

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Just found out my case number and pm'd a mod - filed 9/10/06. I've just checked with our local court who where very helpful. NW have until 25 Oct (2 days to serve plus 14 days) to file a defence or an acknowledgement of service which gives them a further 14 days until 8 November - another waiting game....

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still no word from NW.....

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Woo Hoo! :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Great news everyone - NW has paid back some cash into our two accounts! I'm not sure how they have arrived at their figures and they are still £2,000 grand short but it's a start - with compounded interest the claim was £4,482.81 and they've paid us back £2,457.40 - so I'm going to send a letter to Mr Bacon and ask him for the rest - I'll also keep an eye out for our 'get out' account letters.

Bill-k I'm expecting you back from your hollybobs soon - its been quiet without you!

Thank you all so much for the support - donation definately on its way, thanks for all the advice - this is a really cool site in helping to empower people. :grin:

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No, not agreed to anything yet - I've just moved the money into a NW savings account until resolved

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Could I not send a letter saying "thank you for your offer I shall accept it as part settlement and pursue the remainder through the courts" - The cash is still in one of their accounts just not the accounts they credited it into - I could argue that I was putting it to one side until the matter was resolved.