Halifax CCA request - Reconstituted Agreement

[adster2407]

Hi,

 

I apologise if this has already been covered, I just wanted to make sure I get things right.

 

A number of DCA's have been contacting me over the last 2 years over a Halifax Credit card debt. After finding some great information on here, I CCA'd IQOR ( the DCA chasing me at the time ) . The credit card was taken out in 2001. All they sent me were copies of the last 5 years statements, with a HBOS compliments slip. There was no agreement or even covering letter. Obviously I replied with the standard letter after they failed to comply with the CCA, and heard nothing for 2 months.

 

Today I have received a letter and phone call from Westcott Credit Services, demanding payment. I'm not sure how to respond to them now, as it was only IQOR I CCA'd not Halifax.

 

Any advice would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks

[coledog]

Hi and welcome

 

Don't talk to this DCA (or any) on the phone - say in writing only. If they write to you, send the letter in the link below with details of your previous CCA request. It does not matter if you sent it to a DCA or the original creditor. Send recorded delivery.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency

Edited January 26, 2011 by coledog

[adster2407]

Thank you. I didn't speak to them as I refused to answer the security questions, I simply instructed them to remove my phone number from their records.

 

I'll get this letter sent off, many thanks for the quick reply.

[FORMISTER]

Sounds like the paperwork is missing to enforce this debt, otherise it wouldn't be doing the rounds with the DCA's. But you never know.

 

In case you read some old threads, it is no longer against the law to sell on debts if the account is in dispute

[inkslinger]

 

In case you read some old threads, it is no longer against the law to sell on debts if the account is in dispute

 

Really? I wasnt aware of that. How come? court ruling or something? Seems an odd state of affairs that.

[FORMISTER]

It's in the OFT guidelines, fall out from the Carey Case I think http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/cca/unenforceable-credit-agreements

[FORMISTER]

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor:

• cannot:
  - make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
  - get a court judgment against the debtor
  - take back anything hired or bought on credit, or take anything used as security in the agreement.
  
• can:
  - ask debtors to pay what they owe
  - send a default notice
  - pass information on to a credit reference agency
  - pass information on to a debt collector
  - sell the debt to someone else
  - take the case to court.
  

[postggj]

Not being rude

 

oft guide lines >>>>>>>>??????

 

I need case/statute law

[postggj]

It can be passed to a debt collector but not assigned equitable or absolute

 

the original creditor still owns the account and its mainly done by the creditors own in house dca

[FORMISTER]

Oh right, cos the OFT says it can sell the debt to someone else and I presumed this comes from their list of judgements on the previous page

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/3417.html

[postggj]

I have read the previous carey judgement but can you tell me which subsection on that judgement you base your information on

 

like i said

 

ime not having a go but this is important to get right for every one

[FORMISTER]

No, Im perfectly happy to be challenged and be wrong. I just took what was coming from the OFT in black and white and didn't question it. There are a number of Judgements beneath the Carey judgement on that link, so i presumed (and maybe I shouldn't of) that the guidelines they were stating were an amalgamation of rulings from those judgements.

 

I certainly won't be citing this again until we have it cleared up eitherway, but thanks for pointing it out, I just read it and presumed it was common knowledge and right for that matter

[postggj]

Thats the problem

 

i learned long ago

 

take information and check again

 

best way is

 

check if case or statute law supports it

 

oft, acas etc

 

they are just guide lines

 

not law:|

 

thanks for the debate and if ime wrong, ill put my hands up to it buit i just need to see it in black and white

[FORMISTER]

I understand where your coming from. I believe it's based on the fact that it is not seen as enforcement along with registering defaults CRA's etc.

 

Although not set in statute law, I should imagine a DCA would quote the OFT guideline in court if you were to challenge them selling your debt. I would of thought a judge would side on the OFT guideline as it's not enforcement.

 

This is probably whu DCA's are happily selling these accounts and no one seems to be sucessfully challenging them

[payback68]

Hi,

 

I apologise if this has already been covered, I just wanted to make sure I get things right.

 

A number of DCA's have been contacting me over the last 2 years over a Halifax Credit card debt. After finding some great information on here, I CCA'd IQOR ( the DCA chasing me at the time ) . The credit card was taken out in 2001. All they sent me were copies of the last 5 years statements, with a HBOS compliments slip. There was no agreement or even covering letter. Obviously I replied with the standard letter after they failed to comply with the CCA, and heard nothing for 2 months.

 

Today I have received a letter and phone call from Westcott Credit Services, demanding payment. I'm not sure how to respond to them now, as it was only IQOR I CCA'd not Halifax.

 

Any advice would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Hi adster2407,

 

although they have some what complied with your CCA request by sending statements, they obviously have not fulfilled it by NOT supplying you with the actual Agreement!.

The fact that IQOR have sold the debt obviously speaks volumes and now Wescott are demanding payment.

 

You may want to send Wescott the following and see how they respond as basically this is a disputed account and the fact the original DCA never complied with!.

 

Bear in mind they have violated various guidelines in selling a disputed debt!.

 

Link:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency

 

Also, you should make them aware that a " Original signed copy of the agreement" will be required if they are intent on pursuing this dispute as the account was taken out prior to April 2007!.

 

Regards

 

PB68.

[postggj]

you would then in that case quote from the consumer credit act its self

 

now that is statute law which over rides guide lines for which a court cant ignore:madgrin:

[postggj]

payback

 

if they cant supply the agreement thenthey are stuffed

 

they may try and con you with a reconstructed one buit its means squat in court

 

if they dont have the originalmthen they must tell you

 

once a creditor has had a cca request. be it the original or a dca, then they are still in default and can go and swing

 

send a letter to wescott saying iquorr have defaulted on the request and you dont recognise the legality of westcot demanding payment as the account is in dispute and they are in violation of

 

CPUTR

[payback68]

payback

 

if they cant supply the agreement thenthey are stuffed

 

they may try and con you with a reconstructed one buit its means squat in court

 

if they dont have the originalmthen they must tell you

 

once a creditor has had a cca request. be it the original or a dca, then they are still in default and can go and swing

 

send a letter to wescott saying iquorr have defaulted on the request and you dont recognise the legality of westcot demanding payment as the account is in dispute and they are in violation of

 

CPUTR

 

Basically what i have stated postggj!

 

PB68.

[FORMISTER]

Yes quite right, but wasn't earlier cases quoting statute law and the Judge made a judgement with his interpretation.

 

I don;t know if I would advise someone to take a DCA to court over this matter for a Judge to reside over it and make a decision over his interpretation.

 

Sorry not getting on my soap box, but if you don't question, you don't learn

 

And appologies for Hijacking this thread for a while

[postggj]

To true

 

remember to quote cputr and send recorded delivery

 

they will prob drop the account like a stone

[payback68]

adster 2407,

 

bearing in mind what postggj has mentioned about CPUTR 2008, the following thread maybe useful to you, if only to read as it's come from a well respected cagger!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291468-Fighting-back-with-CPUTR-2008....

 

Best of luck and keep us updated

 

PB68.

[adster2407]

Many thanks for all the great advice.

 

I just wanted to check, I have had another letter today from the lovely people at Westcott, and on the letter its states the are acting on behalf of Halifax Credit Card. Last November I CCA'd Iqor, as they were the DCA chasing me at the time, and as I said previously, they only sent me some old statements and nothing else. I sent them usual dispute letter. So it appears Iqor have returned it to Halifax and they have since passed it on to Westcott. So in the template letter do I state the account is in dispute with Halifax or Iqor? Sorry if I am missing the obvious.

[coledog]

It is igor as that is who you CCAed

[adster2407]

Hi,

 

I got some great advice here back in January, so hopefully you can help again.

 

I have a debt from a Halifax Credit card taken out in 2001. For various reasons I struggled to pay the minimum payments. I contacted the Halifax, and was told by one of their advisors " If you can't pay, just don't pay". I also noticed some fraudulent activity on my account, reported it TWICE and Halifax did nothing. After being fobbed off several times by their complaints team, I finally CCA'd them.

 

In November 2010, within the time limit, Halifax sent me my last 6 years statements and nothing else. I wrote to them, and said this wasn't acceptable, and heard nothing back. In January 2011 I received letters and Phone calls from Westcot collections demanding payments. Again, I wrote to them explaining I was still waiting for a copy of the agreement. I heard nothing back.

 

Today ( 6th August 2011 ), I received a letter in a Bank of Scotland envelope, from Blair, Oliver, Scott, with a " reconstituted version of the executed agreement". They state I must contact them within 14 days to arrange payment or they will " have no option but to instruct collections agents".

What they have sent is 15 pages of terms and conditions, with my name an address printed on the top. No signature, or date the agreement was signed or anything.

Any advice on what my next move should be? It has taken them 9 months to actually send this after the request, and I have no idea if this was the agreement I signed back in 2001.

Sorry for the long post and any help very much appreciated.

[dx100uk]

two threads merged and moved to the halifax forum

 

please keep to ONE thread per debt

 

dx