Whats going on.Simplistic look on things perhaps

[Tawnyowl]

Lets begin.

1-Insulate loft.Done

2-Cavity wall insulation Done.

3-Quadruple double glazing Done:-D

4--Seal house so no draught dare get in. Done.

5-Sit back and count the money saved on power. -Trying to.

OOPS-Forgot -now we are not using as much power companies or suppliers are not happy.

Sting us with inflation,pension draining,savings emptying increases.Hurts business as well.

This winter all kinds of people are going to be cold .Children,pensioners everyone will suffer.

Its the wholesale price you see the suppliers say.Now sit back in your chair and turn the fire up a touch.

Great Britain we are being taken to the cleaners.Time to let the power companies,wholesale suppliers know we have had enough We are not a soft touch anymore..Goverment must act.before the winter Thanks

Please exscuse my,as some of you no doubt will let me know perhaps simplistic look on things.But at least its off my chest and can now relax for the weekend..Tawnyowl.

[ihateyes]

i agree with the vast majority of you rant.... and i know this doesnt make it any better, but are you aware we are one of the cheaper countries for energy costs

 

http://www.energy.eu/

[Tawnyowl]

Hi ihateyes,

Yes i suppose it was a bit of a rant.

I really do not know much about energy costs in other countries or what help,if any pensioners or people on benefits get in these countries.

But i now,after my rant,which reading again it seems to be,. intend to find out..

I am worried about fuel poverty as this link from Scotland explains the situation there.http://www.cas.org.uk/news/2011-news/July/Fuel+poverty+approaching+crisis+levels+in+Scotland

Perhaps you can also find information as well.

I think this could develop after my initial rant into a interesting thread.

Now its been a long day and i must get away from the forums for a while.

Hope to catch up tomorrow.

Thanks for replying i hateyes.

Tawnyowl.

[Tawnyowl]

See if you are entitled to any help whether rented or private.Every penny counts as energy prices rise.

Have a look if you are anywhere in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11742512

Is it possible as seen in the Netherlands that local councils in the uk could bulk purchase.Seems to have resulted in a 20% reduction for some.Can anyone answer this.

http://www.nlgn.org.uk/public/2011/meeting-the-costs-of-household-energy-will-become-one-of-the-great-challenges-of-the-21st-century/

[Tawnyowl]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/08/05/energy-watchdogs-pocket-200-000-plus-pay-packets-as-customers-are-clobbered-by-soaring-bills-115875-23320632/#.Tju51QJA Transfer,free transfer the lot of them.

Interesting statement.

Shadow Energy Secretary Meg Hillier said that the sums involved were staggering and “Ofgem must do more for its money”.

She added: “We need a strong watchdog for the industry but also reform – it is not a free market. We need more companies fighting for business with lower prices.

To right we do.

 

British Gas saw an 18% year-on-year decline in gas usage in the period, as well as a 3% drop in electricity consumption, and that although profits were made in the first quarter of the year, energy has been sold at a loss since April.

British Gas has a duty to shareholders to increase profits and one way of doing this is raising prices.

 

So i suppose that means,we try to save using gas electric they will just keep putting the price up.

 

Now wheres the old Argus stove.As i recall you threw anything in them and they heated the house and the water.

 

Think also the old fireplace can be opened up and will stock up supply of wood ready for the winter.

Edited August 6, 2011 by tawnyowl

[ihateyes]

agree... lol

 

i live in a council house, the goverment spout off about energy efficient homes.... council houses are some of the most unefficient homes there ae, lack of insulation etc.....

 

i live in an old village, no gas supply, im on coal fire spend about £120p/m from sept-april. £35 on electric....

 

a bag of coal is very expensive here £16.50 fo a 50kg bag. when i moved over here 4ys ago it was £12 a bag.

 

Now if i fell into a category i can get fuel poverty payments for gas/elec, i dont believe this stands fo coal....

 

the irony is the amount of coal mines around where i live within a 25m radius would be over 6 activ mines!!

 

think i imght go into y garden and start digging!!! lol

[Tawnyowl]

Hi ihateyes

Amongst the serious aspects of the energy problem its only natural to have a light hearted look and post a few lighter comments now and again.I think its a way of keeping ourselves sane.

Hence my reply.would be to your post

"Coal i will be around in a minute with my spade" or something like that"

The problem is growing and ways must be found to bring more competition to the market.

My small business would not last 5 minutes if i treated my customers like they do

Somebody would step in within hours and take over my market if i put up prices by10-20%

Is there anyone out there to take the giants on..

Perhaps Richard Branson or someone like that is needed

Now i will put this part out again.Does anyone know if the next statement is possible in the UK

 

With this in mind, NLGN advocated last week in its white paper ‘Going Dutch: Local Government and Fuel Poverty’ that local councils should help lead citizens to club together and let the council negotiate a lower energy price from providers through bulk purchasing. The inspiration came from a scheme in the Netherlands called Met de Stroom Mee which encouraged 10,000 people to sign up to allow a group to negotiate for cheaper energy using the bulk purchase principle to get a better deal. The scheme resulted in an approximate 20% saving for those who accepted the deal.

Whilst this scheme was facilitated by a voluntary organisation in the Netherlands, NLGN believes that local councils are well placed to take a lead on this in the UK. As the Ofgem evidence notes, UK consumers in the energy market are more risk-averse, so having a recognised and trusted facilitator will help to counter this.

Any comments Tawnyowl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2

[Tawnyowl]

Just putting this on to explain how the bulk buying system started in the Netherlands.

It is a interesting read.

http://www.nlgn.org.uk/public/wp-content/uploads/Going-Dutch.pdf

Maybe the idea will take off in the UK but a 15-20% saving seems possible,

Does anyone know if any councils or others are considering the idea.

Would win some votes.

Any councellors,,MPs about.Views perhaps

Think of re-election.

Just a idea-any views welcome.

I expect someone to shoot the idea out of the sky and perhaps tell me i am a bit scatty.

I dont mind-go for it .But read first..Tawnyowl.

[greasmonkey]

the govermant should take it back with the help of the people

start with british gas everybody changes to any other company

leaving them with no customers then then goverment takes over british

gas and then all change back or go through them one after the othertill someone

takes over to give a fare price

[Tawnyowl]

Hi greasmonkey,

I feel that many people are angry with the power companies with these tremendous price increases being introduced.

Seems very convenient they all follow each other like sheep.

But i forget its the wholesale price you see,so they say.

You would think they would have enough clout between them to make the wholesalers pay attention.

There is something of the night about all this.

They remind me of vampires sucking the money out of individuals,communities,business.

How is this going to affect the elderly who just seem to grin and bear it.

There are only so many layers of clothing to put on.

Perhaps having to live in one room,scared of putting the fire or heating on.Shivering in modern Britain.

I have been in touch with a London MP who is very good at standing up to companies who try things on.

At least i received a reply,which i admire and gave me a few ideas to work on.

I will update when a few emails are fired off,and replies if any are received.Better to try and fail than not to try at all.

greasmonkey-

POWER TO THE PEOPLE-if only.

Edited August 16, 2011 by tawnyowl

[Tawnyowl]

Have asked a local MP and some local councellors their views on the Netherland idea.Am awaiting replies.

Will put some key points on which may interest you.Perhaps if you find interesting enough you may want to ask your local council,MP what they think.Would be glad of some reaction,reply.

The Netherland idea which seems to have resulted in a10-20% reduction in Fuel Bills

http://www.nlgn.org.uk/public/wp-content/uploads/Going-Dutch.pdf

1-Concerns over whether energy firms would engage in this scheme can

be answered by the sheer scale of the finances involved. If, as in The

Netherlands, 10,000 households were to sign up to the ‘aggregate

to negotiate’ model, it would equate to approximately £12.5 million

per annum in buying power. Even broken down to the level of a large

metropolitan council, the sums on offer would be large enough to

provide a strong incentive for reticent energy companies to participate.

This scheme would also create opportunities for new entrants to emerge,

as they would have the opportunity to win a big initial contract with

which to establish themselves.

Councils could propose that their negotiations be conducted publicly

and/or there be a public auction where energy companies bid for the

business on offer.

2-Using the dual fuel bill average cost noted earlier in this paper of £1250

per annum, and based on the approximate 20% savings experienced in

The Netherlands, NLGN estimates that even if local authorities were able

to achieve a 10% reduction on average annual dual fuel bills this would

result in a saving of £125 per household per annum.

3-There is no reason why councils can’t come together to collaborate to

achieve even greater scale and ensure more bargaining power. As a

trusted and recognised institution the local council would provide the

appropriate reach and scale combined with the consumer confidence

that citizens can often lack when dealing with their energy needs.

4-The Numbers

• 20% - The savings achieved using the ‘aggregate and negotiate’ model in

The Netherlands

• £125 - A conservative estimate of potential savings for UK consumers on

fuel bills (based on a 10% reduction in annual dual fuel bill)

5-A strong benefit of the Met de Stroom Mee model is that it supports

everybody. Councils spend the vast majority of their budgets and time

on a very small percentage of their populations. This model of support

actually shows the council helping many people who would otherwise

have very limited interactions with the local state.

5-Combining the likelihood of rising prices with citizens’ sometimes limited

ability to acquire the best deal, fuel poverty will become a more acute

problem. Government responses to rising fuel prices in the past have

been simple: give citizens money to cover the cost, for example through

the winter fuel allowance. But the pressures of deficit reduction mean

that the state will struggle for find this additional money.

I find it a interesting idea i hope others do to.

Tawnyowl.

[Tawnyowl]

Well old Tawnyowl wrote to local councillors local MPs and others in August last year about the Met de Stroom model where people,organisations,councils,towns,cities group together and negotiate price.Kind of people power.

I received one reply from the many emails i fired off from Stella Creasy MP in Walthamstow, London over 300 miles away who found it a interesting idea .Thankyou Stella for the one and only reply i had.So much interest.

I have just been listening to a program and the idea seems to be gaining popularity and am just trying to find out where anyone is up to with this idea which seemed to save some up to 20% on their power bills in the Netherlands.

This seems to be the most up to date information i can find in this country.

The Big Switch – further information

 

 

http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2012/02/07/the-big-switch-q-a/

 

I suppose it will be up to the power companies in the end if they will negotiate on price.But people power and the buying power of many savings could could be large.Fingers crossed.

Edited March 28, 2012 by tawnyowl

[greasmonkey]

well tawnyowl we are trying to get back to where we where before

it was given away to private comp.as to getting one of them to

do a deal if enough people sign up to it we should be able to buy direct

like they do the service pipes dont belong to them

[Tawnyowl]

Hi Greasmonkey nice to hear from you.

Interesting letter just found it.Edward Davey letter to energy companies.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/meeting-energy-demand/energy-markets/4734-open-letter-from-the-secretary-of-state-to-energy-.pdf

Especially the -"I want to see variety in the type of organisation coming forward coming forward with collective purchasing and switching schemes,including schemes that reach out and include more vulnerable consumers and people who don't shop around for their gas and electricity."

 

This explanation and outcome would be the ideal to me if the vulnerable and people on prepay meters etc could be included.Could councils do such a thing.Tawnyowl is not bright enough to answer such a question.It seems simple to me but is it. Imagine the possible clout if a city a large town,council went for the Netherland Idea.IF done for the consumers and not for profit the savings could be huge.Naturally if all went well the council,town,city,whoever would be so well thought of they would be safe in their chambers,seats, for years, and many a drink would be bought for them for years to come.Pioneers of a new age in power buying. Heroes in their community.Now who is going first.He who dares may win.The idea is below.

 

The Netherland idea which seems to have resulted in a10-20% reduction in Fuel Bills

http://www.nlgn.org.uk/public/wp-con...oing-Dutch.pdf

1-Concerns over whether energy firms would engage in this scheme can

be answered by the sheer scale of the finances involved. If, as in The

Netherlands, 10,000 households were to sign up to the ‘aggregate

to negotiate’ model, it would equate to approximately £12.5 million

per annum in buying power. Even broken down to the level of a large

metropolitan council, the sums on offer would be large enough to

provide a strong incentive for reticent energy companies to participate.

This scheme would also create opportunities for new entrants to emerge,

as they would have the opportunity to win a big initial contract with

which to establish themselves.

Councils could propose that their negotiations be conducted publicly

and/or there be a public auction where energy companies bid for the

business on offer.

2-Using the dual fuel bill average cost noted earlier in this paper of £1250

per annum, and based on the approximate 20% savings experienced in

The Netherlands, NLGN estimates that even if local authorities were able

to achieve a 10% reduction on average annual dual fuel bills this would

result in a saving of £125 per household per annum.

3-There is no reason why councils can’t come together to collaborate to

achieve even greater scale and ensure more bargaining power. As a

trusted and recognised institution the local council would provide the

appropriate reach and scale combined with the consumer confidence

that citizens can often lack when dealing with their energy needs.

4-The Numbers

• 20% - The savings achieved using the ‘aggregate and negotiate’ model in

The Netherlands

• £125 - A conservative estimate of potential savings for UK consumers on

fuel bills (based on a 10% reduction in annual dual fuel bill)

5-A strong benefit of the Met de Stroom Mee model is that it supports

everybody. Councils spend the vast majority of their budgets and time

on a very small percentage of their populations. This model of support

actually shows the council helping many people who would otherwise

have very limited interactions with the local state.

5-Combining the likelihood of rising prices with citizens’ sometimes limited

ability to acquire the best deal, fuel poverty will become a more acute

problem. Government responses to rising fuel prices in the past have

been simple: give citizens money to cover the cost, for example through

the winter fuel allowance. But the pressures of deficit reduction mean

that the state will struggle for find this additional money.

 

Well the idea ongoing at the moment called the Big Switch has not gone down very well with British Gas here is their response to the idea.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/9175504/British-Gas-refuses-to-take-part-in-Big-Switch.html

 

Edited March 31, 2012 by tawnyowl

[Tawnyowl]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/9710100.stm Interesting program at 12

BBC Radio 4's Money Box

Saturday, 31st March 2012 at 1204 GMT On Radio 4 and Online

[/url]

Money box podcast.

If you missed it link here-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01f1kfx/Money_Box_31_03_2012/

Money Box speaks to Richard Lloyd, Which? executive director, and Mike Shamesh from the People's Power:

Bit of info about The peoples power

http://www.thepeoplespower.co.uk/

 

The idea-inspiration.

http://www.thepeoplespower.co.uk/energy/getting-cheaper-electricity-holland#.T3bePdmd568

 

“I believe collective switching has great potential and welcome this approach from thePeoplesPower…” (Ed Davey, 27/3/2012)

 

http://www.thepeoplespower.co.uk/energy/housing-associations-sign-up#.T3bT6Nmd568

 

“The brilliant thing about this is it can benefit households who might not be used to shopping around on the internet, as well as the so called switching classes” says Mike Shamash of thePeoplesPower.

 

Aileen Evans, Managing Director of Aragon & MacIntyre Housing Associations said

“It is so important that the benefits of this are open to everyone, only then can we say we are really tackling fuel poverty. We will pilot an approach to help people with no access to the internet to benefit from this.”

 

Meanwhile Bolton Community Homes, a partnership of seven housing associations managing 25,000 homes, has said it supports the principles of thePeoplesPower and will be working to encourage their tenants to register on the www.thePeoplesPower.co.uk website.

 

By working on a not for profit basis and being completely transparent about referral fees charged to energy companies – £2 compared to the standard £40-50 charged by most switching sites – thePeoplesPower.co.uk hopes to encourage even more households and organisations to sign up for a fairer deal. They are also keen to make sure that smaller energy companies, and not just the big six, are able to compete for the new customers, by keeping the number of households per switch capped at 20,000.

Edited April 1, 2012 by tawnyowl

[Tawnyowl]

In my ideal world the council who have all the council tax payers addresses would just send a letter to all its residents.Whether town,city,village,hamlet,whatever.

Hello this is your local council, do you fancy cheaper energy prices we will negotiate on your behalf and probably save you 10-20%,job done.

Costs,expenses to be charged to the new energy supplier,probably a few pound each.Surely not 40 or fifty pounds.They would not mind paying that.The power companies need shaking up and competition heating up a touch.Maybe some new players will turn up to liven things up a touch.

I am no expert on computers but i expect most of the software required would possibly already be available to councils.

Being a trusted negotiator would create confidence in them.Who better than your council.

As was originally said-

 

There is no reason why councils can’t come together to collaborate to

achieve even greater scale and ensure more bargaining power. As a

trusted and recognised institution the local council would provide the

appropriate reach and scale combined with the consumer confidence

that citizens can often lack when dealing with their energy needs.

4-The Numbers

• 20% - The savings achieved using the ‘aggregate and negotiate’ model in

The Netherlands

• £125 - A conservative estimate of potential savings for UK consumers on

fuel bills (based on a 10% reduction in annual dual fuel bill)

5-A strong benefit of the Met de Stroom Mee model is that it supports

everybody. Councils spend the vast majority of their budgets and time

on a very small percentage of their populations. This model of support

actually shows the council helping many people who would otherwise

have very limited interactions with the local state.

Maybe save a few jobs.

Probably to simple.

Waiting to be shot down.

Who is going to be first.

 

Another Energy idea from Ken Livingstone has appeared

Ken plans Energy Co-operative to put £120 back in Londoners' pockets

 

Ken Livingstone said:

“Soaring energy bills are hitting Londoners hard. I’m pledging to tackle London’s rising living costs on everything from fares and housing to childcare and energy bills.

 

 

 

Ken Livingstone today released his plan for a London Energy Co-operative, the latest of his policies to put money back in Londoners’ pockets.

Through harnessing the buying power of Transport for London, the biggest purchaser of electricity in London, and the rest of the GLA Group, the London Energy Co-operative will be able to purchase energy on the wholesale markets, giving Londoners a cheaper alternative to rip-off energy suppliers.

 

Members of the London Energy Purchasing Co-operative would be given a stake in their own energy company. Savings will be realised through both lower bills on average, as well as an annual dividend if the co-operative operates at a profit.

 

It has been estimated that through setting up the co-operative, Ken Livingstone could save Londoners up to £120 off their bills.

Things are building.Hopefully this is a conservative estimate and savings could be larger than that with the possible buying power of TFL and the GLA.

Who is TFL

TFL

Its main role is to implement the Mayor's Transport Strategy for London and manage transport services across the Capital for which the Mayor has responsibility. These services include:

 

• London's buses
  
• London Underground
  
• Docklands Light Railway (DLR)
  
• London Overground
  
• Tramlink
  
• London River Services
  
• Victoria Coach Station
  

I suppose even if Ken does not win the mayor of London election in May he could with Boris set up this Energy Co-ooperative.Or some similar idea.The possible savings are to good to miss.Things are changing and the power companies better prepare for the coming storm.

 

Held to ransom for far to long.

People not shareholders come first.

Fair prices coming back to the people.Very unusual this day and age.

Hopefully.

Even if this does not happen,alternatives probably will.The bargaining power of Londons residents is potentially huge.

Now a city approaching the wholesalers of gas for the best price would be interesting.

Edited April 1, 2012 by tawnyowl

[Tawnyowl]

Cutting energy bills: 'Huge Switch' aims to trump 'Big Switch'

 

Energyhelpline launches direct competitor to the Which? campaign by offering consumers more choice and charging energy companies less money

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/apr/02/cutting-energy-bills-huge-switch-big-switch?CMP=twt_gu

 

 

Well more players moving in to try to save consumers money.

So long as the consumers win.

Seems to be a lot of talk about how much to charge the suppliers in commission.

The original idea i read about in August 2011 saved the consumer 20% .Yes 20%.Why can someone not just copy of them.

Here is the Netherland idea again.Seems allright to me. to me.Can anyone see any new idea that has improved on them.

http://www.nlgn.org.uk/public/wp-content/uploads/Going-Dutch.pdf

All i want to see is a massive saving for uk consumers one way or the other.

Page 10 -Why local government.I have been rambling on about this for some time.It seems the best way to go about things.Does anyone agree.Or disagree.Any opinions.

Edited April 4, 2012 by tawnyowl

[Tawnyowl]

How did Which's? Big Switch work for consumers?

BBC Moneybox- http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01hdnqv

Starts at 7 minutes 35 seconds.