Nelson Guest/Wescot County Court Claim ***discontinued with wasted costs ***

[Jockey99]

Hi.

 

Received General Directions Order from CC reads:

 

Unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant do comply with the Defendant's requests made in writing on 20 and 21 July 2011 under CPR31.14 the claim be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty to enter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with costs of the case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed.

 

Presumably they won't comply as already stated in their letter of 7th September that they aren't pursuing.

 

So now do I wait and let the deadline pass then apply direct to Wescot for costs? In the draft order I submitted I did state costs of £130 for the N244 application but am I right in thinking that this latest Order allows me to claim the costs of the whole case? Would be rather good if I could!

 

Thanks again.

 

J

[AndyOrch]

It does indeed mean just that Jockey, but lets wait until the date,what a claimant states and actually does are worlds apart.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Jockey99]

Indeed Andy - just over a week.

 

J

[Jockey99]

****** UPDATE****

 

Hi everyone, particularly those whose help has been invaluable (you know who you are!).

 

Just received a copy letter from Wescot to CC. Reads:

 

We refer to the Order dated the 8th September 2011 and confirm we wrote to the Defendant on the 1st August 2011 and 7th September 2011.

 

Our Claim was raised due to the sum claimed being outstanding and a number of payments being made and defaulted on. In this regard, we enclose a Statement of Account.

 

On receipt of the Defendant's request for information, we wrote to the Defendant on the 1st August 2011 to confirm we agreed to stop any action whilst we investigated the possibility of providing the documents the Defendant had requested. (This a blatant lie, the letter only said "We write in reference to the above matter. Please accept this letter as Acknowledgement of your letter of the 21st July 2011. We can confirm we will be in contact in due course. Nowhere any mention of stopping action!) Unfortunately we were unable to provide all the Documents taht the Defendant has requested and whilst it was not disputed that the monies were borrowed and arrangements to repay agreed, we believe on balance that it may have been decided by the Court at any subsequent trail that we had insufficient evidence to prove our Case.

The Claimant accepts that in making this decision it has to stand its own costs incurred and write off the whole outstanding balance, so the Defendant has no outstanding liability. Further the Claimant accepts that it will be liable to pay the Defendant's costs claimed of £130.

The Claimant does however, object to the Defendant entering Judgement against the Claimant and can confirm that a Cheque for the Defendant's Costs of £130 will be issued to the Defendant in the next 7 days.

 

Marvellous! So they lie to the Court and object to me compelling them to produce evidence!

 

As I have the Order in place:

 

"Unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant do comply with the Defendant's requests made in writing on 20 and 21 July 2011 under CPR31.14 the claim be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty to enter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with costs of the case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed."

 

Can I go after Wescot for the costs I incurred for the whole case not just in obtaining the Order (which of course was the £130)?

 

Also should I instruct Wescot to remove all traces of my "alleged" debt from Credit References?

 

Thr really daft thing is that they went to Court without giving me any time to negotiate (I was very naive at that point!!).

 

Thanks again!!

 

J

[AndyOrch]

Yes yes and Yes, well done Jockey I will get your title amended.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[cerberusalert]

Title updated.

[Jockey99]

Thanks, Andy.

 

How much should I ask for (sorry demand!)?

 

And do I just write to them or does it have to be via Court?

 

See still naive!

 

J

[AndyOrch]

You can approach them first test the water see their response if negative you will have to submit an assessed costs to the court.

I will post some more information later on the procedure.

 

Well done.

 

Andy

[Jockey99]

Thanks again, Andy.

 

J

[AndyOrch]

Couple of examples for you Jockey

 

 

Draft LiP bill of costs for detailed assessment.pdf‎(56.6 KB, 502 views)

Draft Notice of Commencement.pdf‎(29.9 KB, 334 views)

[citizenB]

Oh well done, this is excellent news, Jockey

[AndyOrch]

Jockey hows this going? Just for your information LiP rates have changed from August its now £18 per hour and any time taken off work is £80 per day.

 

Andy

[Jockey99]

Hi Andy are you pshchic or noticed I'm looking back here?

 

Great news about the LIP increase!!

 

Have literally just drafted my costs against Wescot and here they are:

 

 

Case No: ABC123

IN THE Northampton(CCBC) COUNTY COURT

 

B E T W E E N:

 

Wescot SPV (Claimant)

 

-and-

 

Jockey (Defendant)

 

DEFENDANT’S BILL OF COSTS

 

After order issued by Deputy District Judge Wrigley.

 

Costs Payable by the Claimant

 

CPR 38.6 andCPR 44.12(1)(d)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Claimant commenced proceedings inrelation to an alleged agreement regulated under The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The proceedings were defended and the Defendant applied to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out unless the Claimant produced documentation to which it referred in the particulars of claim.

 

On 01/09/2011 Deputy District JudgeWrigley ordered that unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant complied with the Defendant’srequests the case be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty to enter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with the costs of thecase to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed. This order was not adhered to and on 19/09/2011 the Claimant wrote to the Court admitting that it had insufficient evidence for its case and that the alleged balance would be written off with the Defendant having no outstanding liability.

 

At all times the Defendant was a Litigant in Person within the meaning of Litigants in Person

 

(Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 and timespent by the Defendant is charged herein at an hourly rate of £18.00.

 

After receiving the Claim form and prior to the order being granted The Defendant was required to spend time in researching case law, contacting the Claimant and the Court both by post and telephone.

 

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in considering and understanding numerous strands of law including the law of consumer credit, the law of limitation and practice and procedure in the County Court which he achieved through internet and library research.

 

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in drawing his defence and application to strike out in a way which complied with therelevant rules and practice directions of the CPR. The Defendant was further obliged to consider his consequential rights and obligations to include his rights and obligations upon the matter of costs and the relevant rules and practice directions of the CPR in reference to the detailed assessments of costs asapplied to Litigants in Person.

 

The following is a statement of thew ork done in the course of the proceedings. Where there is a charge for time spent, the amount of time recorded as spent represents the Defendant's fair estimate of the amount of time spent byhim

 

Claimed (£)

 

1 Date 14/07/2011

 

Particulars of claim

 

2 Date 20/07/2011

 

Acknowledgement of Service

 

3 Date 16/08/2011

 

Defence

 

4 Date 12/08/2011

 

Defendant's Notice of Application andDraft Order to strike out

 

PAID: court Fee £45.00 (reimbursed byClaimant)

 

5 Work Done

 

Receiving and considering the ClaimForm and Particulars of Claim (3 hrs) £54.00

 

Acknowledgement of Service (1 hrs)£18.00

 

Research regarding consumer credit law (10 hrs) £180.00

 

Preparing Defence (3 hrs) £54.00

 

Preparing Application Notice/Draft Order(6 hrs) £108 (partially reimbursed by Claimant)

 

Research regarding CPR 38.6 and CPR44.12 (10 hrs) £180

 

Research regarding detailed assessmentproceedings and Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 (10 hrs) £180

 

Preparing bill of costs (2 hrs) £36.00

 

Time spent in telephone calls, lettersand emails written and received (4 hrs) £72.00

 

Summary

 

Costs payable by the Claimant £936.00

 

Disbursements (court fee) £45.00

 

Cost already reimbursed by Claimant £130.00

 

Total costs payable by the Defendant£851.00

 

Dated: 07/10/2011

 

Signed:

Is this ok to go? Obviously with a covering letter requesting (demanding?) payment within 21 days (or less not sure?) plus demand that all records of the alleged debt be removed from credit agencies.

 

Thanks.

 

J

[AndyOrch]

Excellent, bet your glad i told you of the rate increase before you posted it off:-D Not sure you will get any adverse markers removed though after all the debt is there just not enforced.This is in line with the ICO guidelines and requirements.Otherwise looks rather professional .

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Jockey99]

Thanks, Andy. Just thought with them writing to the Court stating that I have no outstanding liability I should give it a whirl!

 

Re the timescale for them to cough up is 21 days correct?

 

Being pessimistic what if they refuse or dispute? Do I have to go back to the Court? Oh and should I send a copy of the assessed costs to the Court?

 

Many thanks.

 

J

[AndyOrch]

Thanks, Andy. Just thought with them writing to the Court stating that I have no outstanding liability I should give it a whirl! No harm trying

 

Re the timescale for them to cough up is 21 days correct? Yes thats fine

 

Being pessimistic what if they refuse or dispute? They shouldn't Do I have to go back to the Court? Yes Oh and should I send a copy of the assessed costs to the Court? No

 

Many thanks.

 

 

J

 

 

Andy

Edited October 7, 2011 by Andyorch

[citizenB]

Hi.

 

Received General Directions Order from CC reads:

 

Unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant do comply with the Defendant's requests made in writing on 20 and 21 July 2011 under CPR31.14 the claim be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty to enter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with costs of the case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed.

 

Presumably they won't comply as already stated in their letter of 7th September that they aren't pursuing.

 

So now do I wait and let the deadline pass then apply direct to Wescot for costs? In the draft order I submitted I did state costs of £130 for the N244 application but am I right in thinking that this latest Order allows me to claim the costs of the whole case? Would be rather good if I could!

 

Thanks again.

 

J

 

It does say in the General order that the costs of the Defendant to be assessed..

[AndyOrch]

Have you completed the N252 Jockey?

 

Only when the court proceedings, to which the costs relate, have been concluded should detailed assessment proceedings be commenced. This is stipulated within CPR 47.1, having been carried over from the old rule of Order 62 Rule 8 (1). The court proceedings will only be deemed to have been concluded when the court has finally determined the matters in issue or if the court sees no reasonable prospects of the claim continuing. This point is important yet regrettably often forgotten. It is a serious but not uncommon error to, having commenced proceedings, perhaps in the event of an approaching limitation period expiry, to simply agree the damages in correspondence between the parties without involving the court. Worse still, one of the most common errors made by practitioners occurs when an exception to this rule arises. For example, where a trial on liability only has taken place, an order is made for the successful party's costs to be assessed if not agreed, it has been known for acting solicitors to assume that the detailed assessment proceedings can be dealt with straight away. This is of course not necessarily correct.

Otherwise detailed assessment should be commenced within 3 months of the order giving rise to the Detailed Assessment. In circumstances where an appeal is pending misunderstandings can also arise. CPR Part 47.2 states that "Detailed assessment is not stayed pending an appeal unless the court so orders." Generally, only where an application to stay the detailed assessment would this rule be excepted

For info

 

Andy

[Jockey99]

No, do I need to and who do I send it to? It's a Court form so should it go there?

 

Sorry to be ignorant, thought that as the order was in place and I just needed to send bill to Wescot! Is it that the assessment has to be done/approved by the Court?

 

Thanks again.

 

J

[Jockey99]

Oh and if it is to the Court what's the fee?

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n252_1299.pdf (draft example in Post#85)

 

There are 2 approaches as I have stated you can try the informal approach and see if they want to play ball if not then you need to approach with the N252 route.

 

The relevant rules are contained in Part 47 and the accompanying practice direction. This note is intended to be only a basic guide to the rules, etc and for more information you should refer to the CPR itself or ourselves.

 

The time for commencing detailed assessment proceedings is within three months of the event giving rise to the Receiving Party's right to have their costs assessed (Part 47.7). It should also be noted that there is no automatic stay of detailed assessment proceedings if there is an appeal (Part 47.2).

 

Detailed assessment proceedings are commenced by serving the documents listed below on the paying party/parties. You do not at this stage have to lodge anything with the Court.

 

(a) notice of commencement (form N252)

(b) signed bill of costs

© copy Counsel's fee notes and any expert's fee notes

(d) written evidence of any other disbursement exceeding £250.00

(e) a statement giving the name and address of any person upon whom the Receiving Party intends to serve the notice of commencement (eg. where there is more than one Paying Party - this is on the N 252 form).

 

The rules (part 47.6) only refer to the need to serve the first two documents on the Paying Party to commence detailed assessment. The practice direction expands this to the full list set out above. Failure to serve all of the above may lead to difficulties in enforcing any default certificate (see below).

 

The relevant sanction for delay is generally disallowance of interest but the Court does have wider powers to disallow costs for use where there has been very serious delay and the Paying Party makes an application requiring the Receiving Party to commence detailed assessment proceedings - see Part 47.8. Additionally it is open to the parties to agree to extend or shorten any of the time limits set out in this Part and you can of course apply to the Court if you require an extension of time.

 

The relevant fees payable in assessment are £180.00 (£160.00 pre 25.05.00) if it is a High Court matter and £150.00 (£120.00 pre 25.05.00) if it is a County Court matter. However, where the authority to assess is dated before 26.04.99 the old taxing fee applies (7.5% of the total Bill with half of that payable up front). In practice though many Courts simply apply new fees these fees are not paid until the Court requests them (usually at the stage that a request for a hearing is made).

 

Once the notice of commencement et al has been served the Paying Party has 21 days to put in Points of Dispute (Part 47.9) failing which the Receiving Party may apply for a default costs certificate (similar to judgment in default). A fee is payable and the relevant part of the rules dealing with default costs certificates is Part 47.11. Application to set aside such default costs certificates can be made and may be successful where the formalities required by the rules have not been complied with (eg. if there has not been proper service and probably if copy fee notes have not been supplied) otherwise if the costs are substantial and the Paying Party has reasonable prospects of having the costs reduced. The Human Rights Act 1998 when it comes into effect on 02.10.00 may also have some impact on applications by individuals to set aside default costs certificates entered against them.

 

If Points of Dispute are received the Receiving Party may then serve (optional) replies (Part 47.13). The time for doing so is 21 days after service of the Points of Dispute. Generally District Judges expect replies to be served.

 

The next step is to request a hearing. This is done by completing form N258 (Request for Detailed Assessment Hearing) and sending the Court the documents listed on that form. The time for requesting this hearing is within three months of the expiry of the period for commencing detailed assessment proceedings.

 

You have an automatic right to costs upon the filing of notice of discon, but you really do not want to go down the route of filing an inter parties bill for detailed assessment for an amount of £75. The fee for filing (if the claimant does not pay after being served with the bill) is more than £75 and you would have to attend an assessment hearing. Better to just attend the hearing listed and the judge will make an order for your costs and attendance expenses. The order will be a summary assessment of your costs and payable in 14 days from the making of the order. If they do not pay - send in the bailiffs!!

 

The above is far more expedient than going down the detailed assessment route and a lot less work.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Jockey99]

Ok so if I've got it right I send them my assessed costs as above together with the N252 form which will effecitively be referring to order made and total. I am not sending it to anyone else including the court t this stage.

In the example you posted, Andy, the costs claimed if they dispute are higher by quite an amount. How is that calculated?

 

Thanks again.

 

J

[AndyOrch]

Thats a job for the Costs manager to explain Jockey not my field, but i Know if they do dispute them they usually get higher?

 

Andy

[Jockey99]

Hi again.

 

Sending Bill of Costs with following letter (I personally like the bit where I've caught them lying to the Court!!).

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: Wescot SPV Limited v Mr JOckey –Claim number ABC123 – request for costs.

 

I refer to the above casewhich was not pursued by yourselves as per your letter to myself of 7th September and letter to Northampton (CCBC) County Court. I would point out at this stage that the letter to the Court, copy attached, contains an error/untruth in that you state that you wrote to me on 1st August stating that you agreed to stop any action whilst you investigated the possibility of providing the documents I had requested. In fact the letter sent by you merely acknowledged receipt of my letter to you dated 21st July 2011.

 

On 8th September 2011 Deputy District Judge Wrigley made a General Directions Order for you to comply with my requests for information by 22nd September 2011and if no such compliance be forthcoming the claim be struck out and I as theDefendant be at liberty to enter judgement against you without further order,with costs of the case to be paid by yourselves. A copy of this Order is enclosed.

 

As per this order I have assessed my total costs to be £981.00. As you have already reimbursed £130, the amount owing by yourselves is £851.00.

 

A breakdown of these costs is detailed on the enclosed Bill of Costs.

 

I look forward to receiving a cheque for this amount within 21 days.

 

As you have admitted that I have no outstanding liability, as stated in the above referred to letter of 19thSeptember 2011 to the Court, I would also request that you inform this fact to any Credit Reference Agencies so that this alleged debt no longer appears against my credit record.

 

Thank you.

 

Yours faithfully,

J

[clayts]

Was there any success claiming your costs ?