Hi again Well they are sticking to their guns and only prepared to pay additional £36.78. Can't actually afford to go to Court again so may well settle unless anyone has any other suggestions? I have copied the amended bill of costs that I sent to them after they disputed my initial assessment together with letter I sent enclosing it. Thanks in advance. Covering letter: Wescot SPV Limited v – Claim numberxxxxxx – request for costs. I refer to the abovecase, my letter of 14th October 2011 and your reply with enclosuresof 27th October 2011. Having reviewed theBill of Costs submitted and in view of your Points of Dispute a revised versionis enclosed for your action. Initially I claimedcosts against you on a whole case basis (and unfortunately at the erroneousrate of £18.00 per hour as Litigant in Person prior to 1st October2011). The rates are now correct for each piece of work undertaken/expenseclaimed. You have previouslypaid me the sum of £130 at the direction of Deputy District Judge Wrigley whichwas purely for the costs for submitting Application Notice N244 and draft orderpertaining thereto. The revised Bill ofCosts now omits this portion of my claim for costs. I have made some revisionsto the time incurred and you will see that the total amount outstanding fromyourselves is now £237.00. I have agreed to reduce some of this claim but havemaintained others for example the time incurred in letters and emails as yourassertion that this only details correspondence between Wescot and myself isfalse, I have included calls and letters to the Court also. Also your allocation of 12 minutes per item isflawed as for example on the first occasion I called your office this amount oftime was far exceeded. This is easily verifiable as I was assured the call wasbeing recorded. I look forward toreceiving a cheque for the above amount (two hundred and thirty seven pounds)within 14 days. As you have previouslyadmitted that I have no outstanding liability, I would again request that you inform this fact to anyCredit Reference Agencies so that this alleged debt no longer appears againstmy credit record. Thankyou Yours faithfully, Revised bill of costs: Case No: XXXXXX IN THENorthampton (CCBC) COUNTY COURT B E T W E E N: Wescot SPV (Claimant) -and- (Defendant) DEFENDANT’SBILL OF COSTS After orderissued by Deputy District Judge Wrigley. Costs Payableby the Claimant CPR 38.6 andCPR 44.12(1)(d) The Claimant commenced proceedings inrelation to an alleged agreement regulated under The Consumer Credit Act 1974. The proceedings were defended and theDefendant applied to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck outunless the Claimant produced documentation to which it referred in theparticulars of claim. On 01/09/2011 Deputy District JudgeWrigley ordered that unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant complied with theDefendant’s requests the case be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty toenter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with the costs ofthe case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed. This orderwas not adhered to and on 19/09/2011 the Claimant wrote to the Court admittingthat it had insufficient evidence for its case and that the alleged balancewould be written off with the Defendant having no outstanding liability. At all times the Defendant was aLitigant in Person within the meaning of Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 and timespent by the Defendant is charged herein at hourly rates of £18.00 (post September2011) and £9.25 (pre October 2011). After receiving the Claim form andprior to the order being granted The Defendant was required to spend time inresearching case law, contacting the Claimant and the Court both by post andtelephone. The Defendant was obliged to spend timein considering and understanding numerous strands of law including the law of consumercredit, the law of limitation and practice and procedure in the County Court which he achievedthrough internet and library research. The Defendant was obliged to spend timein drawing his defence and application to strike out in a way which complied with therelevant rules and practice directions of the CPR. The Defendant was further obliged toconsider his consequential rights and obligations to include his rights andobligations upon the matter of costs and the relevant rules and practicedirections of the CPR in reference to the detailed assessments of costs asapplied to Litigants in Person. The following is a statement of thework done in the course of the proceedings. Where there is a charge for time spent, the amount oftime recorded as spent represents the Defendant’s fair estimate of the amount of time spent byhim. Claimed (£) 1 Date 14/07/2011 Particulars of claim 2 Date 20/07/2011 Acknowledgement of Service 3 Date 16/08/2011 Defence 4 Work Done Receiving and considering the ClaimForm and Particulars of Claim (3 hrs) £27.75 Acknowledgement of Service (1 hr)£18.00 Research regarding consumer credit law (5 hrs) £46.25 Preparing Defence (1 hr) £9.25 Research regarding detailed assessmentproceedings and Litigants in Person (Costs andExpenses) Act 1975 (3 hrs) £54 Preparing bill of costs (2 hrs) £36.00 Time spent in telephone calls, lettersand emails written and received (4 hrs, 3 hours at£9.25 per hour, 1 hour at £18.00 per hour) £45.75 Summary Costs payable by the Claimant £237.00 Dated: 09/11/2011 Signed I think this is not unreasonable!! Thanks again for any advice/comments. J

Hi. They disputed the amount of time I claimed for (was expected really!). Sent revised schedule on 9th Novemeber and gave them 14 days to pay. See whether they reply! J

Hi again. Sending Bill of Costs with following letter (I personally like the bit where I've caught them lying to the Court!!). Dear Sir, Re: Wescot SPV Limited v Mr JOckey –Claim number ABC123 – request for costs. I refer to the above casewhich was not pursued by yourselves as per your letter to myself of 7th September and letter to Northampton (CCBC) County Court. I would point out at this stage that the letter to the Court, copy attached, contains an error/untruth in that you state that you wrote to me on 1st August stating that you agreed to stop any action whilst you investigated the possibility of providing the documents I had requested. In fact the letter sent by you merely acknowledged receipt of my letter to you dated 21st July 2011. On 8th September 2011 Deputy District Judge Wrigley made a General Directions Order for you to comply with my requests for information by 22nd September 2011and if no such compliance be forthcoming the claim be struck out and I as theDefendant be at liberty to enter judgement against you without further order,with costs of the case to be paid by yourselves. A copy of this Order is enclosed. As per this order I have assessed my total costs to be £981.00. As you have already reimbursed £130, the amount owing by yourselves is £851.00. A breakdown of these costs is detailed on the enclosed Bill of Costs. I look forward to receiving a cheque for this amount within 21 days. As you have admitted that I have no outstanding liability, as stated in the above referred to letter of 19thSeptember 2011 to the Court, I would also request that you inform this fact to any Credit Reference Agencies so that this alleged debt no longer appears against my credit record. Thank you. Yours faithfully, J

Ok so if I've got it right I send them my assessed costs as above together with the N252 form which will effecitively be referring to order made and total. I am not sending it to anyone else including the court t this stage. In the example you posted, Andy, the costs claimed if they dispute are higher by quite an amount. How is that calculated? Thanks again. J

Oh and if it is to the Court what's the fee? Thanks

No, do I need to and who do I send it to? It's a Court form so should it go there? Sorry to be ignorant, thought that as the order was in place and I just needed to send bill to Wescot! Is it that the assessment has to be done/approved by the Court? Thanks again. J

Thanks, Andy. Just thought with them writing to the Court stating that I have no outstanding liability I should give it a whirl! Re the timescale for them to cough up is 21 days correct? Being pessimistic what if they refuse or dispute? Do I have to go back to the Court? Oh and should I send a copy of the assessed costs to the Court? Many thanks. J

Hi Andy are you pshchic or noticed I'm looking back here? Great news about the LIP increase!! Have literally just drafted my costs against Wescot and here they are: Case No: ABC123 IN THE Northampton(CCBC) COUNTY COURT B E T W E E N: Wescot SPV (Claimant) -and- Jockey (Defendant) DEFENDANT’S BILL OF COSTS After order issued by Deputy District Judge Wrigley. Costs Payable by the Claimant CPR 38.6 andCPR 44.12(1)(d) The Claimant commenced proceedings inrelation to an alleged agreement regulated under The Consumer Credit Act 1974. The proceedings were defended and the Defendant applied to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out unless the Claimant produced documentation to which it referred in the particulars of claim. On 01/09/2011 Deputy District JudgeWrigley ordered that unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant complied with the Defendant’srequests the case be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty to enter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with the costs of thecase to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed. This order was not adhered to and on 19/09/2011 the Claimant wrote to the Court admitting that it had insufficient evidence for its case and that the alleged balance would be written off with the Defendant having no outstanding liability. At all times the Defendant was a Litigant in Person within the meaning of Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 and timespent by the Defendant is charged herein at an hourly rate of £18.00. After receiving the Claim form and prior to the order being granted The Defendant was required to spend time in researching case law, contacting the Claimant and the Court both by post and telephone. The Defendant was obliged to spend time in considering and understanding numerous strands of law including the law of consumer credit, the law of limitation and practice and procedure in the County Court which he achieved through internet and library research. The Defendant was obliged to spend time in drawing his defence and application to strike out in a way which complied with therelevant rules and practice directions of the CPR. The Defendant was further obliged to consider his consequential rights and obligations to include his rights and obligations upon the matter of costs and the relevant rules and practice directions of the CPR in reference to the detailed assessments of costs asapplied to Litigants in Person. The following is a statement of thew ork done in the course of the proceedings. Where there is a charge for time spent, the amount of time recorded as spent represents the Defendant's fair estimate of the amount of time spent byhim Claimed (£) 1 Date 14/07/2011 Particulars of claim 2 Date 20/07/2011 Acknowledgement of Service 3 Date 16/08/2011 Defence 4 Date 12/08/2011 Defendant's Notice of Application andDraft Order to strike out PAID: court Fee £45.00 (reimbursed byClaimant) 5 Work Done Receiving and considering the ClaimForm and Particulars of Claim (3 hrs) £54.00 Acknowledgement of Service (1 hrs)£18.00 Research regarding consumer credit law (10 hrs) £180.00 Preparing Defence (3 hrs) £54.00 Preparing Application Notice/Draft Order(6 hrs) £108 (partially reimbursed by Claimant) Research regarding CPR 38.6 and CPR44.12 (10 hrs) £180 Research regarding detailed assessmentproceedings and Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 (10 hrs) £180 Preparing bill of costs (2 hrs) £36.00 Time spent in telephone calls, lettersand emails written and received (4 hrs) £72.00 Summary Costs payable by the Claimant £936.00 Disbursements (court fee) £45.00 Cost already reimbursed by Claimant £130.00 Total costs payable by the Defendant£851.00 Dated: 07/10/2011 Signed: Is this ok to go? Obviously with a covering letter requesting (demanding?) payment within 21 days (or less not sure?) plus demand that all records of the alleged debt be removed from credit agencies. Thanks. J

Thanks again, Andy. J

Thanks, Andy. How much should I ask for (sorry demand!)? And do I just write to them or does it have to be via Court? See still naive! J

****** UPDATE**** Hi everyone, particularly those whose help has been invaluable (you know who you are!). Just received a copy letter from Wescot to CC. Reads: We refer to the Order dated the 8th September 2011 and confirm we wrote to the Defendant on the 1st August 2011 and 7th September 2011. Our Claim was raised due to the sum claimed being outstanding and a number of payments being made and defaulted on. In this regard, we enclose a Statement of Account. On receipt of the Defendant's request for information, we wrote to the Defendant on the 1st August 2011 to confirm we agreed to stop any action whilst we investigated the possibility of providing the documents the Defendant had requested. (This a blatant lie, the letter only said "We write in reference to the above matter. Please accept this letter as Acknowledgement of your letter of the 21st July 2011. We can confirm we will be in contact in due course. Nowhere any mention of stopping action!) Unfortunately we were unable to provide all the Documents taht the Defendant has requested and whilst it was not disputed that the monies were borrowed and arrangements to repay agreed, we believe on balance that it may have been decided by the Court at any subsequent trail that we had insufficient evidence to prove our Case. The Claimant accepts that in making this decision it has to stand its own costs incurred and write off the whole outstanding balance, so the Defendant has no outstanding liability. Further the Claimant accepts that it will be liable to pay the Defendant's costs claimed of £130. The Claimant does however, object to the Defendant entering Judgement against the Claimant and can confirm that a Cheque for the Defendant's Costs of £130 will be issued to the Defendant in the next 7 days. Marvellous! So they lie to the Court and object to me compelling them to produce evidence! As I have the Order in place: "Unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant do comply with the Defendant's requests made in writing on 20 and 21 July 2011 under CPR31.14 the claim be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty to enter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with costs of the case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed." Can I go after Wescot for the costs I incurred for the whole case not just in obtaining the Order (which of course was the £130)? Also should I instruct Wescot to remove all traces of my "alleged" debt from Credit References? Thr really daft thing is that they went to Court without giving me any time to negotiate (I was very naive at that point!!). Thanks again!! J

Indeed Andy - just over a week. J

Hi. Received General Directions Order from CC reads: Unless by 22/09/2011 the Claimant do comply with the Defendant's requests made in writing on 20 and 21 July 2011 under CPR31.14 the claim be struck out and the Defendant be at liberty to enter judgement against the Claimant without further order, with costs of the case to be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant to be assessed. Presumably they won't comply as already stated in their letter of 7th September that they aren't pursuing. So now do I wait and let the deadline pass then apply direct to Wescot for costs? In the draft order I submitted I did state costs of £130 for the N244 application but am I right in thinking that this latest Order allows me to claim the costs of the whole case? Would be rather good if I could! Thanks again. J

Hi. Letter gone to court so wait and see. J

Hi Below is a draft letter to the Court, any tweaks or obvious ommissions gratefuly received: Dear Sir Claim Number XXXXXXXX – Wescot SPV Limited v I refer to the above claim and attach a letter from Westcot dated 7 September 2011 in which they state that they are not pursuing the matter any further. I telephoned Westcot on 8 September 2011 to enquire as to whether they had informed the Court of their decision and to discontinue their claim. A spokesman for Westcot, Mr Adam Pottage, informed me that this was not their policy. On 12 August 2011 I submitted to the Court an Application Notice on form N244 requesting the Court to instruct the Claimant to provide information pertinent to their claim together with a Draft Order including a claim for the Defendant’s costs of £130 (one hundred and thirty pounds). I would be grateful if you would confirm that due to the Claimant’s admission that they have no case that the case be struck out and that the Claimant should pay the Defendant’s costs. Thank you. Yours faithfully Thanks in adavance. J

Ok. Spoke to Court and no notice sent by Wescot. Rang Westcot and spoke to Adam Pottage who said after consultation with "defence team" that they do not inform court to discontinue, rather say later that they do not wish to collect! Think I will send the court a copy of their letter and would like to know how I can pursue my costs, if I can of course!! Many thanks. J

Andy, no it does not include anything on discontinuance. 42Man - will phone court to see and let you know. Thanks to you both. J

*** Update*** Just received a letter thos morning from Westcot: "We write in reference to the above matter (Refers to claim no etc in heading). Further to our letter of the 1st August 2011 (confirming receipt of my info request) we have been unable to obtain what we believe to be sufficient evidence to support our Claim. We have therefore decided not to pursue this matter any further and confirm the balance outstanding has been written off." Quick questions, 1. Does this actually mean the debt is now gone forever or can it be resurrected in future? 2. I did submit N244 asking court to force Westcot to produce evidence and asked for costs, what will happen now? 3 Should I let the court know about Wescot's letter? Many thanks. J

Thanks, Andy. This will no doubt come into play when "proper" defence is filed assuming they come up with docs?? For now all filed and awaiting responses. Speak to you in the future. Thanks again. J

Thanks, Andy. Guidance notes say NOT to send hard copy if filed online. So I assume I should just refer to docs and not attach? J

Hi Andy. Going to submit defence via MCOL. Looking at Citizen's guidance notes I hav come up with this: The Defendant is unable to plead due to the Claimant's failure to comply with its CPR 31.14 duties in disclosing requested documents On 20th and 21st July 2001, following service of the Claim Form in this case, the Defendant wrote to the Claimant requesting inspection of documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim pursuant to CPR 31.14. Copies of these letters of request are attached. The Claimant replied by letter dated 1st August 2011 acknowledging the letter of 21st July and informing the Defendant that they would be in contact in due course. No such contact from the Claimant has been forthcoming. A copy of this reply is attached. On 8th August 2011 the Defendant telephoned the Claimant, Westcot SPV Limited, to ascertain when the aforementioned documents would be available. The Claimant’s employee, Mr Steve (SURNAME REMOVED) , referred with a colleague and informed the Defendant that the documents were unavailable at this time. The Defendant requested that the Claimant grant the Defendant a further 28 days for the production of the aforementioned documents in order for him to prepare a defence. This request was refused by the Claimant in the person of Mr (SURNAME REMOVED)who stated that the Defendant should issue a defence without the aforementioned documents. The Defendant asked Mr (SURNAME REMOVED) whether the telephone conversation was being recorded and Mr (SURNAME REMOVED) confirmed that it was. The documents sought by my request are essential for the proper preparation of my defence and the determination of the claim and CPR 31.14 afford me a right to inspect those documents. The Defendant reserves the right to amend this defence and has made an application to the court for an order compelling disclosure. Bits in red are there becaus I am not sure if I can attach docs?? What do you think or am I way off?? Thanks. J

Harder nudge! J

Good morning Andy, gentle nudge! J

Thanks, Andy. How do I get a bottle (or 2 to you??) J

Hi Andy Spoke to Court and there is a 5 day turnaround so suggested submit defence which can go via email thankfully. Should it be on the lines of no docs produced, can't defend? Deadline 4pm tomorrow so need to get my skates on!! Thanks again. J