Spam-v- Lloyds Tsb Mastercard 'Summary Judgement'

[hammyhound]

Expect a nice juicy claim form in the post anyday now and check the POC when you get it I am sure it will say Clause 7 8 and 9 which don't appear anywhere.

 

What makes companies think that you are going to be better off in 6 months time. That's what happened with me and MBNA and they wanted not only the minimum payment but the arrears and interest as well - they can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

Yes they will default you as you have not kept up your side of the "agreement" ie making the minimum payments. I was defaulted with MBNA despite being in an agreement.

 

LTSB do seem to get it right with the DN but just check on the figures.

 

I never received a default - SCM has never produced one so I would like to see what they turn up with at disclosure.

 

There isnt a lot you can do but just sit tight and wait.

 

HH

[angmarie]

Hi Spam

 

I requested cca for Lloyds/tsb on 17th July, but have had no response from them at the moment. I sent £1 P/O but am not sure if they cashed it yet. Im not sure whether to send account in dispute letter or just sit back and see what happens next.

 

 

Ang

[Spamalot]

Hi Spam

 

I requested cca for Lloyds/tsb on 17th July, but have had no response from them at the moment. I sent £1 P/O but am not sure if they cashed it yet. Im not sure whether to send account in dispute letter They have had enough time to respond but you probably won't hear anything before the middle of next week. ;-)or just sit back and see what happens next. If you are witholding payments I would advise you send an account in dispute letter so that they are aware of what you are doing. (even if they refuse to take any notice of your letter, at least you will have proof of sending it)

 

 

Ang

 

Hi Ang.

 

It took a month before I actually got a reply to my CCA request and all I got in return was 2 lots of T&C's which I assume are 'Now and Then' With my name and address on them... now I could be Picky and point out that when I took out the card originally I was at a different address so therefore that is NOT a true copy of my agreement but I may save that little bit of info for when they start to get a big strop on.

 

For some reason or another, the minute you ask to see a CA they assume you are using a CMC and immediately get aggressive... which I personally take umbrage to and it makes me less inclined to be civil to them.

 

I'm just in the process of finalising my account transfer to the Co-op so despite being in a position to dispute the account I am holding back until all that is sorted so that they can't offset any funds I have, also, I want to be sure that if they do decide to litigate it will be in Small Claims as I don't want to be coming face to face with their smug barristers in Fastrack.

 

Good luck with yours Angmarie and let me know if you start a thread.

 

Spam.

[vint1954]

Hi, and thanks for looking in.

 

I did look there originally but I couldn't see that they actually did a bank account as such... I only saw savings etc.

 

I think for the time being I am going to have to give up on the parachute idea as the more times my file is being accessed/viewed and the more knockbacks I'm getting the worse it seems to be.

 

As far as I'm aware I am not owed any bank charges from Lloyds as I always kept within my overdraft limit etc. so I won't be upsetting them by asking for money back.

 

I am just challenging the credit card so hopefully they won't be able to take the money out of my current account without my permission if I withold payment, but I'm not sure.

 

Can they take money out of a current or savings account to service a credit card or is it just loans and overdrafts where they can help themselves willy nilly?

 

Spam.

Hi spam,

 

Could not see that you got an answer to this one. Yes, if there is an offset clause, which there usually is, they can.

[vint1954]

Hi Ang.

 

It took a month before I actually got a reply to my CCA request and all I got in return was 2 lots of T&C's which I assume are 'Now and Then' With my name and address on them... now I could be Picky and point out that when I took out the card originally I was at a different address so therefore that is NOT a true copy of my agreement but I may save that little bit of info for when they start to get a big strop on.

 

It is obviously not a true copy. Don't let them get away with that. Have a look at the text below.

 

For some reason or another, the minute you ask to see a CA they assume you are using a CMC and immediately get aggressive... which I personally take umbrage to and it makes me less inclined to be civil to them.

 

You only have to question them and they are off and running. They seem to be sending out these typed so called agreements, as they are less identifiable as unenforcable agreements than the rubbish that they have.

If you need a letter, I have one.

 

I'm just in the process of finalising my account transfer to the Co-op so despite being in a position to dispute the account I am holding back until all that is sorted so that they can't offset any funds I have, also, I want to be sure that if they do decide to litigate it will be in Small Claims as I don't want to be coming face to face with their smug barristers in Fastrack.

 

Good luck with yours Angmarie and let me know if you start a thread.

 

Spam.

In a recent letter from the enforcement department of the OFT, the text below was quoted, explaining what is required.

“The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement eg the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan.

 

Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice.”

 

[Spamalot]

Hi Vint and thank you.

 

I wouldn't mind a look at that letter if you have it handy.

 

I'm a bit behind with my corres at the mo cause I have my hearing for my set aside with Marlin next week and everything else has been put on the back burner so I really need to start getting all my next moves in place.

 

Thanks again,

 

Spam.

[vint1954]

Hi Vint and thank you.

 

I wouldn't mind a look at that letter if you have it handy.

 

I'm a bit behind with my corres at the mo cause I have my hearing for my set aside with Marlin next week and everything else has been put on the back burner so I really need to start getting all my next moves in place.

 

Thanks again,

 

Spam.

Hi Spam,

 

Here you go.

 

xxxxxx 2009.

Dear xxxxxxxxx,

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I write regarding recent communication regarding the above account.

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is now subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I have to date only received terms and conditions from yourselves.

Contrary to your assertion, xxxxxxxx have not complied with the terms of CCA 1974 s78. The documents that you have supplied, do not comply with your duties to supply a “True Copy” of any agreement you claim to have been signed by me.

In a recent letter from the enforcement department of the OFT, the text below was quoted, explaining what is required.

“The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement eg the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan.

 

Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice.”

 

I also refer you to the information below.

1. A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

 

2. Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

 

2. The need for prescribed terms to be contained in the credit agreement is confirmed by the Author of the CCA1974 act, I quote ““As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

 

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed.” - 167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.”

I am now granting to you a further 7 days to produce a copy of an executableagreement. After that I will consider that the above matter is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. If you are insisting that the non enforceable document, that you have supplied, is the only alleged agreement in your possession, then I would suggest that the best course of action would be to immediately set the balance of the above account number to zero.

I look forward to your response.

 

Vint

[Spamalot]

Thanks Vint,

 

I will get onto that as soon as.

 

Spam.

[vint1954]

No problem

[Tonka99]

Hi Spam

 

Just to say be careful they are looking in, and took a DN off

my Thread and took it to court

Didnt do them any good mind:D

 

Good luck with this will be looking in again

 

Cheers Tonks:)

[Spamalot]

Hi Spam

 

Just to say be careful they are looking in, and took a DN off

my Thread and took it to court Whaaaat! How outrageous!!

Didnt do them any good mind:D Phew..

 

Good luck with this will be looking in again Thank you...

 

Cheers Tonks:)

 

Account in dispute letter sent and received 20.8.09... awaiting obnoxious reply..

 

Now... question is... I've all but emptied my Lloyds current account, there's just a few quid in there to keep it ticking over, but I have a £100 o/d arrangement.

 

Would they, legally, be able to take any payments out towards the Credit Card from that current account causing me to go overdrawn within, or over my limit???

 

Has anyone had experience of this?

 

Thanks, Spam.

[Dorabell]

Account in dispute letter sent and received 20.8.09... awaiting obnoxious reply..

 

Now... question is... I've all but emptied my Lloyds current account, there's just a few quid in there to keep it ticking over, but I have a £100 o/d arrangement.

 

Would they, legally, be able to take any payments out towards the Credit Card from that current account causing me to go overdrawn within, or over my limit???

 

Has anyone had experience of this?

 

Thanks, Spam.

 

Hi yes be careful they did it to me:mad: i change banks i would recomend to you to open another bank account

[Spamalot]

Hi yes be careful they did it to me:mad: i change banks i would recomend to you to open another bank account

 

Thanks..

 

I have opened another account and all my dd's etc have been transfered.. I just haven't closed my Lloyds one yet I'm wondering whether to ask them to withdraw my overdaft facility or just close the account altogether.

 

I was keeping it open because this is the only account I have a cheque book facility with and I was hoping that once things were sorted I may be able to go back to using it.... bit of a dilemma..

 

Spam.

[angmarie]

Hi Spam

 

Well I requested cca for myself and hubby on 10th July, and all we have received back is forms for hubby to complete and his signature which he blagged. What is interesting is that we had a threat o gram from **** for hubby on 12th June, and looking through file tonight that letter says you have had issue of default notice:eek:. Dont know where they sent that then but never came here. Not a problem though cause have already requested SAR for hubby so we have to see.

However I have not heard a peep since 10th July and have not sent payment either, are they just incredibly slow to get started.

 

 

Ang

[Spamalot]

Bit of a Victor Meldrew Hissy Fit here..

 

I originally sent my CCA request to wrong address so when I hadn't heard from them for a few weeks I gave them the benefit of the doubt and sent another request.. The day after I sent the second request they cashed the cheque for the first... This weekend they have cashed the cheque for the second request... so thats £2 they've had now for a bunch of hastily typed up T&C's.. and an arrogant letter.

 

Spam.

[angmarie]

Hi Spam

 

Oh the joy, received response to cca request yesterday. Load of rubbish typed on a4 paper my details where appropiate but nothing of real interest.

Funny enough they do say

we are endeavouring to locate your signed agreement:D:D.

However they end letter in an arragant manner asking details of which claims management company i am using.

 

Ang

[Spamalot]

Hi Spam

 

Oh the joy, received response to cca request yesterday. Load of rubbish typed on a4 paper my details where appropiate but nothing of real interest.

Funny enough they do say

we are endeavouring to locate your signed agreement:D:D.

However they end letter in an arragant manner asking details of which claims management company i am using.

 

Ang

 

So you've received the same tripe as the rest of the country!! you seem to be just a couple of steps behind me in the hunt for the enforceable agreement..

 

Perhaps yours is in the same cupboard as mine and Hammys..

 

who do they really think they are..

 

Spam.

[vint1954]

Hi Spam

 

Oh the joy, received response to cca request yesterday. Load of rubbish typed on a4 paper my details where appropiate but nothing of real interest.

Funny enough they do say

we are endeavouring to locate your signed agreement:D:D.

However they end letter in an arragant manner asking details of which claims management company i am using.

 

Ang

Hi Angmarie,

 

You can send the letter in post 32, but after To date you have failed to comply with my request add supplying only a typed set of terms and conditions, which cannot be linked to any alleged agreement that you claim is signed by me.

Edited September 8, 2009 by vint1954

[angmarie]

Hi Vint/Spam

 

When filing this manure i noticed that we have already sent SAR for this account on 15th August, so maybe hang on for now and see what they can produce for this request. They have acknowledged SAR request send some forms, insisted on a signature which he disguised and we returned forms on 16th August.

 

 

Ang

[Spamalot]

Hello Lloyds Lovers..

 

Got my Final Response Hogwash today... They have complied with my request under s.78 CCA... They wouldn't dream of having an agreement which is unenforceable... they are squeaky clean... I must do as I'm told and pay them money and if I don't they'll take it anyway...They can default me and I can complain to FOS... think thats the gist of it..

 

Arrogant bum wipes..

 

Spam.

[vint1954]

It's like banging your head against a brick wall Spam. Just not sure what we can do with these people. I supose that if they wand to ignore and break the law, unless we spend a fortune in court, just have to wait for them to take action.

 

Maybe a letter to your mp, informing them that the banks are ignoring an act of parliament. Is he happy with that. Copy to the indepedant.

[Spamalot]

Depends on their actions when they realise I mean business and they won't receive another penny out of me...

 

If need be I'll CPR them and do what SMT did with Barclaycard... Messing with the wrong person here I'm afraid..

 

Spam.

[vint1954]

I have issued CPR 31.16 requests to 3 creditors. They love to ignore those as well. I guess you need to follow it through.

[Spamalot]

I have issued CPR 31.16 requests to 3 creditors. They love to ignore those as well. I guess you need to follow it through.

 

If you don't it's just empty threats... which is what they are full of..8)

 

Needs a few of us to get a few of them up the court steps and change their tune...

 

Spam.

[vint1954]

Maybe.

 

It will only make them reveal that they do not have an agreement, which we know.