Debenhams Store Card PPI ***Urgent Help Required*******

[gezwee]

Aha...... that might explain their w/s then - you've probably got a snot nosed paralegal appointed. Read everything in Queen's and thinks bullying rather than compromise is the order of the day. Pity there's not more time to speak to a partner instead of this chimp.

 

Stick to your guns at the hearing, if they deny relief from disclosure you want [demand] relief from same.

 

Do you want me to draft you a Tomlin to hand to them in the waiting room?

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Gez

 

Can you clarify what you mean by them denying relief from disclosure???

 

Yes please, that would be brill. I can't thank you enough for your help.

[Kate1973]

It seems i am uncovering all sorts of things!!

 

Another point i have just uncovered. In their original reply and defence to counterclaim "Exhibit RDC2" they enclosed a copy of account cover brochure from 2005 and have directed me to section 7 entitled "how to cancel", The copy is dated 08/05, some 7 years after taking out the card. I pointed this out in my WS, and in their SUPP WS has apologised for this and enclosed a copy of the account cover from 1998. Only one small problem, section 7 of this one is entitled "premiums". The detail about covering is at the end of S6, and not well highlighted in my opinion. Can i argue this point also that this is actually at the end of a section and not clearly visible??

[gezwee]

Relief in respect of your case .......errrrrr, I'll try

 

You seek access to disclosure of statements to accurately form your poc, they deny access....... by denying access they deny your ability to claim relief [counter claim]

 

They seek to claim £xxxx.xx but deny access to material evidence [statements again]........ denied relief to mitigate in defence

 

They can't have it both ways.

 

Gez

[gezwee]

It seems i am uncovering all sorts of things!!

 

Another point i have just uncovered. In their original reply and defence to counterclaim "Exhibit RDC2" they enclosed a copy of account cover brochure from 2005 and have directed me to section 7 entitled "how to cancel", The copy is dated 08/05, some 7 years after taking out the card. I pointed this out in my WS, and in their SUPP WS has apologised for this and enclosed a copy of the account cover from 1998. Only one small problem, section 7 of this one is entitled "premiums". The detail about covering is at the end of S6, and not well highlighted in my opinion. Can i argue this point also that this is actually at the end of a section and not clearly visible??

 

Yes

[gezwee]

Page #1....... you'll need to fill in the blanks, and sort out the dodgy formatting on here

 

IN THE ………………… COURT CLAIMNO: ……………..

BETWEEN:-

………………………..

Claimant

-and-

………………………….

Defendant

__________________________________________

TOMLIN ORDER

__________________________________________

UPON THE PARTIES having agreed terms:-

BY CONSENT IT IS HEREBYORDERED THAT:-

1. All proceedings are stayed on the terms setout in the schedule hereto for the purposes of which the parties shall be atliberty to apply.

2. There shall be no order as to costs.

Dated this day of February2012

We hereby consent to an Order in the above terms.

………………………………………………. …………………………………………………..

The Claimant The Defendant

[gezwee]

Page #2 [the schedule]...... poo formatting again, lol

 

Confidentiallity..... your choice whether to include, they may appreciate the gesture though

 

 

SCHEDULE

1. The Claimant agrees to take no action in relationto agreement …………. [and to write off the balances set out in its accounts inrelation to the same].

2. TheClaimant shall make no reference to any Credit Reference Agency in respect of agreement……….. and shall correct any entries that have been made to date.

3. The Claimantshall make one [1] single payment of £3728.81 to the Defendant in respect ofPPI premiums and interest applied thereon.

4. The parties heretoacknowledge that the provisions in this Schedule and Order are confidential tothe parties and their legal advisers and each party undertakes in favour of theother not to disclose any of these provisions to any person not a party to thisschedule and order. It is agreed that neither party shall be in breach of thisconfidentiality provision by disclosing any of the terms hereof if compelled todo so by any Court or Authority of competent jurisdiction.

[Kate1973]

Excellent, what a star. I think it's now time for bed, i've done my Miss Marple bit for the night, up and at it again tomorrow. I hope you will be around again as i'll have the usual barage of questions!!!. I'm so grateful and not feeling much much happier about this. I really hope i've done enought to convince the Judge that they are being very sly, and incompetent. I've just read a bit in the Supp WS that states the client has therefore satisfied it's comliance obligations imposed by the strict regulatory framework the claimant operates in. Strange as i have a DPA breach , and no complaince of OFT guidelines???? Not looking to good me thinks??

[gezwee]

Lol, they can believe what they like....... whilst you can't force them to bring Lord Lucan riding Shergar to the hearing [if they don't have it, they don't have it.... end of] you can question/test the verasity of their particulars.

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

It really is quite funny in places. I'm sure i won't be feeling like this on Monday but i will give it a dam good shot, and not just for me, but for others who have also been faced with the no it wasn't mis sold so tough!. I will be asking for advise tomorrow on what i need to do step by step Monday. I've made lots of notes point by point on their Supp WS, Do i need to get these typed up or can i just use my own notes?? Is there any specific format i need to follow for these as this is really what i want to say to the Judge??

[gezwee]

Skels...... really depends on the dj on the day, either he/she will allow [take 3 copies] as it makes his/her life easier if it narrows the issues and identifies caselaw applicable....... or he/she won't.

 

Can't see why it wouldn't be allowed as its primarily to assist the court, if he/she takes umbrage to it just use it as a reference tool on the day.

 

Here's an old post borrowed from another thread..... may help explain:

 

Skeleton argument

 

A skeleton argument must contain a numbered list of the points which you wish to make. These should both define and confine the areas of controversy. Each point should be stated as concisely as the nature of the case allows.

 

A numbered point must be followed by a reference to any document on which you wish to rely.

 

A skeleton argument must state, in respect of each authority cited:

 

a) the proposition of law that the authority demonstrates; and

 

b) the parts of the authority (identified by page or paragraph references) that support the proposition.

 

If more than one authority is cited in support of a given proposition, the skeleton argument must briefly state the reason for taking that course. This statement should not materially add to the length of the skeleton argument but should be sufficient to demonstrate, in the context of the argument:

 

a) the relevance of the authority or authorities to that argument; and

 

b) that the citation is necessary for a proper presentation of that argument.

 

 

See here for example skeleton argument for lifting a stay:

Stay Hearing: Skeleton Argument - Consumer Wiki

[Kate1973]

Hi folks

 

Just starting to type out my Skele. Do i need to answer their points in order on their SUPP WS or can i do it in my own order as i want to get some other points accross which are bigger issues on my part?? I will cover their points also?

 

Any help urgently appreciated.

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

It is your skele .. do it how you wish. Just make sure that when you are rebutting/responding to a point they have made.. it is clear which part of their W/S or Skele you are replying to.

[Kate1973]

Hi Guys

 

Here's my Skelly for tomorrow. Please can someone review & check my points asap. I do still need to add in a couple of bits surrounding the bit about the cases i am relying on, is there anything in particaulr i can quote as they state that i am not quoting the particular bits relevant??

 

Also i will prepare the Tomlin to take with me. Do i ask to speak to them in the waiting room and point out their error and offer this as their way to discontinue their claim without the need for embarrasment in court??

 

Many thanks

Debs Skeleton Argument for hearing CAG Version 27.2.12.doc

[citizenB]

Still reading this.. but suggest you amend this sentence..

 

The Defence has indeed been produced with the benefit of assistance available via a consumer advice website, though I would contend that fact would only be clear to someone such as yourself who makes it their business to patrol such websites.

Amend "yourself" to "the claimant"

[citizenB]

Hi Guys

 

Here's my Skelly for tomorrow. Please can someone review & check my points asap. I do still need to add in a couple of bits surrounding the bit about the cases i am relying on, is there anything in particaulr i can quote as they state that i am not quoting the particular bits relevant??

 

Also i will prepare the Tomlin to take with me. Do i ask to speak to them in the waiting room and point out their error and offer this as their way to discontinue their claim without the need for embarrasment in court??

 

Many thanks

 

Hello Katie.. wow, you put some work into that.. I like it.

 

You might want to do a final word check .. I notice you have lots of lower case "i"'s where they should be upper case.

 

It is very likely that the solicitor for the other side might approach you. But yes, if they dont.. speak to the usher ask if the other side are there and then make your offer

 

Please let us know how you get on.. and good luck

[Kate1973]

Done that first one!. . If anyone else has any comments please can i have them asap.

 

Muchas gracias!!

[gezwee]

Hi Kate

 

I'd suggest that where you make a point based on S.I you quote the Act and section, print 3 copies of the section itself and have a bundle available referenced to each point [oh and lose the bullet points, use numbers..... you'll find it easier on the day ]. The dj will be able to look it up but what you don't want is to sit there being asked why its relevant and all supporting references are on your laptop at home.

 

ie: Para #3: It should also be pointed out these include several missing statements which are August 2006, November 2006 – January 2007, April 2009 – September 2009, November 2009, January 2010 and May 2010 –September 2010. The Defendant fails to see how the Claimant can accurately claim what is allegedly owed on the account due to an obvious lack of accurate record keeping by the Claimant, The Defendant contends this is contrary to the Companies Act 1985 S.221

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/6/part/VII/chapter/I/crossheading/accounting-records/2004-11-12?view=plain+extent&timeline=true

Para #6 - 'Thisis a DPA breach and contradicts the Claimants compliance to regulatory framework. ' [Data protection Act 1998 S.7 & 15(2)]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/7

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/15

As for the rest of the skel, looks fine to me...... the only other suggestion I can make is to try to make each point as concise as possible without losing the gist of the argument itself. Remember to take 3 copies with you for the hearing.

The Tomlin..... this is really for last minute leverage, if they approach you in the waiting room asking for a chat, tell them you're prepared to listen, as previous post DO NOT accept any additional docs from them without all parties being in front of the judge. When they've finished saying their piece and trying to get you to crumble, hand them a copy of the Tomlin and ask that they consider it carefully and take instruction from their client.

They may not bite, they may not accept it [depends what instruction they've gone to court with], if they come back with an offer it'll be up to you on the day to decide if you want to accept it.

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Folks, nearly there, if anyone else has any comments please can i have them asap.

 

I can't thank the people on this site enough for their help, even if it is a site to help people "avoid paying their debts", lol!.

 

I think i am prepared as i can be for tomorrow but you never know. In the event i loose, what is the process??? Having not been in this situation before i have no idea??

 

I have also attached my Tomlin if someone can give it the once over???

 

Much appreciated........

Debs Tomlin Order CAG 27.2.12.doc

Edited February 26, 2012 by Kate1973

[gezwee]

Hi Kate

 

Really not sure what the outcome will be, with so much missing data it'll be difficult for the dj to find a position 'fair' to both parties.

 

If they show up tomorrow with the missing statements you need to request time/adjournment to recalculate your counter, if thats the case, they'll argue for costs, and you counter with their previous denied relief to data and your costs.

 

The dj may get the hump and tell them or both of you to bugger off and get your acts together, with the case to be re-listed. Nothing in this life or the county court is certain

 

If you stand your ground and argue your case well you should come away OK

 

The court will always look to the overriding objective for guidance

 

Gez

 

The overriding objective

 

1.1

 

(1) These Rules are a new procedural code with the overriding objective of enabling the court to deal with cases justly.

 

(2) Dealing with a case justly includes, so far as is practicable –

(a) ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;

 

(b) saving expense;

 

© dealing with the case in ways which are proportionate –

(i) to the amount of money involved;

 

(ii) to the importance of the case;

 

(iii) to the complexity of the issues; and

 

(iv) to the financial position of each party;

 

 

(d) ensuring that it is dealt with expeditiously and fairly; and

 

(e) allotting to it an appropriate share of the court’s resources, while taking into account the need to allot resources to other cases.

[gezwee]

T/O's fine, if the dj asks if there's been any attempt to settle you can show him the order [page #1], not the schedule [page #2] unless he specifically asks to see it.

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Gez, thanks, time for bed, will be up early tomorrow, as always any other advice would be gratfully received.....

[gezwee]

Can't think of anything else at the mo, except to say good luck for tomorrow

 

I'm not able to access Cag from work during the day but if i think of anything else when I get up in the morning I'll post on here

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Thanks Gez, the support i've had has been invaluable and so much appreciated. Thanks a lot to you and all others who have supported and helped. I hope i can bring good news tomorrow........

[dx100uk]

Hi Folks, nearly there, if anyone else has any comments please can i have them asap.

 

I can't thank the people on this site enough for their help, even if it is a site to help people "avoid paying their debts", lol!.

 

I think i am prepared as i can be for tomorrow but you never know. In the event i loose, what is the process??? Having not been in this situation before i have no idea??

 

I have also attached my Tomlin if someone can give it the once over???

 

Much appreciated........

 

no cag is not a site to help avoid debt - never ever will be

 

its a site where people can get help when they have been wronged by the system.

 

dx