Cl Finance sent court papers for a HSBC debt Help Please !!! *** Discontinued****

[trying to save]

ok after dealing with something else that has cropped up i need to get this matter back in hand still no response to CPR 31.14 surprise !!

revised sar gone off yesterday to HSBC signed but over xxxx's so cannot be lifted consent order or tomlin order which is the best

 

Advice please TTS

[AndyOrch]

Further to your PM TTS

 

If you are of a mind not to continue to defend this matter I personally would recommend agreement by way of a Tomlin Order.

However I would wait a little longer as you now have an extension in place and see what or if anything is disclosed prior to your defence.

You would be surprised at how many of these claims are discontinued as soon as a little pressure is applied.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[trying to save]

Thanks for replying Andy I am just a bit concerned that my defence has to be in by the 20/07/2011 not heard a thing off Howard Cohen and worried because i accidently ticked the wrong box and the courts would not let me change it .

 

Will they be waiting for my defence to go in before they do anything just thought it may be better to get it sorted now, so if after the 20/072011 nothing is filed by HC what happens then if they do file have i still got the option of mediation ?

 

TTS

[AndyOrch]

Thanks for replying Andy I am just a bit concerned that my defence has to be in by the 20/07/2011 not heard a thing off Howard Cohen and worried because i accidently ticked the wrong box and the courts would not let me change it . What box?

 

Will they be waiting for my defence to go in before they do anything just thought it may be better to get it sorted now, so if after the 20/072011 nothing is filed by HC what happens then if they do file have i still got the option of mediation ?

 

TTS

 

TTS you can agree a TO the day of the trial and still settle this amicably.That trial date may be next year at the rate the CCs are performing at the moment.

If you file a holding defence in the event of nothing furnished and they still dont respond after 28 days then the claim is stayed.If they do respond then there will be guidance from the Court and an AQ will be sent to you and the case transfered to your local CC. Within the AQ you can again request documents pertaining to their claim if they fail to supply again more than likely the DJ will strike out the Claimants claim.

There is a process to playing this game dont fold at the first hurdle.

Andy

 

[trying to save]

Thank you for that advice Andy has calmed me down a bit must admit that it was the post #73 and #75 that worried me a bit as i am so new to all this and not sure of the facts but what u are saying above makes perfect sense.

 

The box in question is mentioned in #7 - 12 and i am worried that they could just get a CCJ however if i put in a holding defence it will stop this ?

 

Need to start having a look around for some examples of a holding defence then don't I ready for next week and i am right in thinking that i can file it online or is it best to post it SD and what would be the best day to send it.

 

Thank you so much for your help and advice so far Andy

[AndyOrch]

Thank you for that advice Andy has calmed me down a bit must admit that it was the post #73 and #75 that worried me a bit as i am so new to all this and not sure of the facts but what u are saying above makes perfect sense. If thats the posters view so be it thats how a good forum works but any advice via PM should be reported unless it was for sensitive reasons as CE stated.

The box in question is mentioned in #7 - 12 and i am worried that they could just get a CCJ however if i put in a holding defence it will stop this ? Right you opted for Part admittance,submission of any defence will be treated as a defence irrespective of your plea

Need to start having a look around for some examples of a holding defence then don't I ready for next week and i am right in thinking that i can file it on line Correct or is it best to post it SD why go to the cost? and what would be the best day to send it. On line and retain your receipt as proof

Thank you so much for your help and advice so far Andy

 

TTS the above clarification is my opinion only, should you wish to settle beforehand is your choice, you must remember the only negative point of pursuing

is the costs element.

Lets see what transpires.

Regards

Andy

 

[trying to save]

Thanks Andy

 

better go and get some jobs done round the house now

 

TTS

[consumeredge]

Hi TTS

 

As I said, I’ve no wish to intervene or put a damper on events, I posted in good faith having read all the facts specifically of your thread, However, It is absolute folly to suggest a "Tomlin order" can be agreed on the day of the hearing.

 

Not withstanding trying to agree terms of settlement at the door of the court (which the court will frown upon) Howard Cohen & Co would be in no mood to then walk in and ask the Judge to adjourn the hearing.

 

Howard Cohen would have to submit an application to have the Consent Order sealed by the court, this costs them time and at least £40 when they know they can secure judgement on the day.

 

To explain, if you were in their shoes, would you honestly agree to an adjournment, or continue with the hearing if you were to asked for a Tomlin Order when knowing this?

Tomlin Order

If the parties agree terms of settlement that include matters outside of the dispute, or orders which the court has no power to make, the parties can record those terms and attach them as a schedule to the Consent Order, or refer to their existence in another document and apply for a stay of proceedings on the agreed terms.

 

Such an order is known as a "Tomlin order" after the name of the judge who first suggested it.

 

A Tomlin Order allows the parties to agree additional terms, such as a confidentiality clause, which the court has no power to order. The court will not approve the terms in the schedule but will make an order staying the proceedings to enable the agreed terms to be put into effect.

 

A Tomlin order is not a Consent Order, it is a separate entirety attached to the Consent Order, the court has no power to enforce a "Tomlin Order" Howard Cohen’s litigation assistant would laugh in your face and you would be made to look foolish.

 

The facts of this case are simple, any perceived concessionary agreement was broken when you missed 2 consecutive monthly payments, Howard Cohen & Co wrote to you, they phoned you, you ignored them, you made no contact or payment until 5th April, and then made no payment in May, what possible defence can be submitted?

 

Had you made token payments for the months of January and February 2011, even if only at £1, you would have had a defence sighting mitigating circumstances.

 

HSBC refunded charges of £688.97 27th June 2007, then sent notice 25th October 2007 the account has been sold to CL Finance Limited.

 

Metropolitan Collection Services Limited are the in house debt collection department of HSBC, it is normal practice for HSBC to pass the account to MCSL for them to administer when customers default on the agreement, usually, if payments are reduced whilst then being administered by MCSL, that is when HSBC sell the account. I would assume the decision was made to sell your account when bank charges were refunded.

 

It is not unusual for Howard Cohen & Co to deliberately delay filing and serving their witness statement, they ignore the 14 day rule.

 

To submit a holding defence allows Howard Cohen & Co to simply apply for a Summary Judgement, that will cost you another £75.

 

If you are in any doubt and my post worried you should seek the advice of a solicitor or your local CAB.

I apologise if my post appeared blunt, I do wish you well, I believed the purpose of your thread was to seek a settlement enabling you to resume a monthly payment of £10 and avoid a ccj, not to now play games in the hope CL Finance Limited will send a notice of discontinuance.

　

[trying to save]

Thanks for that post consumeredge and speaking so candidly , I would rather have all the facts up front need to now speak to my OH and decide what we are going to decide

 

TTS

[trying to save]

spent a lot of time having a good look around this forum today and reading a great deal of posts it does seem to be that when a request is made using CPR 31.14 it does not produce the info required and also that the organisations themselves also come on here to see what is going on which i find a bit worrying is this true .

 

TTS

[AndyOrch]

spent a lot of time having a good look around this forum today and reading a great deal of posts it does seem to be that when a request is made using CPR 31.14 it does not produce the info required Precisely and supports the reason for defence if you was suing someone wouldn't you have all the necessary paperwork in place first? Unless of course you didnt have it or the right to commence litigation hoping the defendant would just accept and role over and also that the organisations themselves also come on here to see what is going on which i find a bit worrying is this true .They always have TTS, thats why we say remove any identifiable data, no exact amounts. As soon as you type the name of the company or solicitor litigating against you in your thread title,they can track and monitor and of course never accept advice by PM ,is the poster one of them or one of us

 

TTS

 

Regards

 

Andy

[trying to save]

ok could do with some help with my defence due in on the 20/07/2011 CPR sent 15/06/2011 by special delivery and received I have the tracking signature i have not heard a word off them.

 

TTS

[trying to save]

Thanks for all your help and advice so far Andy

[consumeredge]

Hi TTS

 

some pointers, hopefully they may help buy you some time

 

 

1. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present.

 

2. The Claimants' particulars of claim disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the Claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matter;

 

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague, no particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to or the method the Claimant calculated the alleged outstanding sum due.

 

3. A copy of the purported written agreement that the Claimant cites in their Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served or attached to the claim form.

 

4. Not withstanding matters pleaded, it is denied that the Claimant has established a cause of action or that the Claimant has a valid claim against the defendant.

 

5. It was agreed 22nd June 2011 between both parties a stay of 28 days to enable the Claimant to comply with the defendants CPR 31.4 request, and provide true copy of said agreement

 

6. The Claimant has failed to supply said documentation within the agreed timescale

 

7. As a direct result of the Claimants failure to provide said documentation, it is proving difficult to plead to the particulars of claim as matters stand. Without disclosure of the relavant documentation I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable to the claimant,

 

8. In view of the matters pleaded above, I respectfully request that the court gives consideration to whether the claimant's statement of case should be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim or stay until such time the Claimant files and serves said document.

The normal scenario is if the NCCBC think you have defence the claim will be sent to your local court, you will then recieve an Allocation Questionaire, cohens will complete theirs and return it to the court, they usually tick for 30 days to agree settlement (but never contact you) and will state in other information "Evidence by witness statement, deponent unknown" if the case does reach that far ask the court for a copy of cohens AQ, the court will then set a date for the final hearing, both parties will be obliged to exchange witness statements no later than 14 days before the hearing, cohen uses that period of time from being allocated the hearing date to the actual day to send occasional intimidating letters soley with the intention for you to withdraw your defence, hopefully you will receive their legendry "By Consent" under the pretex, "in an effort to bring the matter to a conclusion and not incur further costs" this can then be amended to include the correct wording and terms of settlement, not theirs! my concern is they could argue you signing a consent order is no guarentee monthly payments would be made and not even bother with it. in my opinion the odds are stacked against you, but I do genuinely hope you are successful.

Good luck, I shall watch with interest

One further point, the email from the court, did this actually come from the court, in my experince the wording and tone is remarkably like cohen's, it also has spelling mistakes?

[trying to save]

Thank you for your input Consumeredge just to clarify that before my son was seriously ill monthly payments were made regularly it has only been the last couple due mitigating circumstances and the email came from the court.

 

Andy could you give me some pointers regarding the defence and also do i need to phone HC to see where the documents are ?

 

TTS

[AndyOrch]

No response to either TTS? Looking like application time then refer to Morrisdogs all the guidelines are in his thread.

I will come back to you re holding defences.

 

 

Andy

[trying to save]

Hi andy i have just read all of this thread CL Finance Ltd. Recieved a court claim form**WON** Discontinued and this is uncanny as it has alot of the same characistics as my case especially the lack of the loan account number on paperwork and them just using the current account number .

[trying to save]

help defence needs to be in by wed worried that even if i defend can they get a summary judgement against me and my OH

 

TTS

[AndyOrch]

They can request a SJ as soon as you acknowledge service even before you submit a defence.

 

 

 

Andy

[trying to save]

ok andy thanks for that so where do i stand now then can i ask for another extension or do i go straight in with a holding defence need some help please

 

TTS

[AndyOrch]

Post 91, TTS another 28 is not going to make any difference and could go on for ever.Time to call there bluff.

 

Andy

[trying to save]

ok then help please

[AndyOrch]

Its all in the link I have provided and another by Mooshy.

[trying to save]

is that the N244 application ? but i have to pay £40 don't i do not have at the mo money is very tight here sorry not sure if i would qualify for remission

[AndyOrch]

If you are not in a position TTS then you will have to request further extension, or submit an holding defence.

 

For Information

 

Exemptions from Court of Protection fees : Directgov

 

Regards

 

Andy