Car Finance - Debt sold on 10yrs later...

[DoobyDude]

Firstly, sorry if this is the wrong forum, there are so many that I thought this was the best fit.

 

OK, my situation.

 

I bought a car in finance in November 2001, and after x amount of payments I received a letter from the finance company stating:

 

-------------------------------------------------

" We are pleased to confirm that the above numbered Conditional Sale Agreement has now been completed and out interest in the vehicle has now ceased."

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However after this I had some personal problems which led to payments being missed and then one night at 9pm I had 2 heavies come knocking on doors and windows, shouting in the garden, through the letterbox etc for around 15mins before I decided to answer as it was scaring my 2 young siblings in the house.

 

Anyway, they said they were here to repossess the car, and they wanted the keys.

I said no, they replied that if I didn't give them the keys they would smash the window and take it anyway as they had a spare set, and I would then be liable for the damage also.

 

Of course in hindsight I should of said "Go ahead" and called the police as they were stealing the car, but I was only 18, naive and intimidated, so I went and collected my stuff from the car, gave them the keys and got them to sign a letter to say they had taken it - I was pretty shaken up as these were BIG guys, bald heads, and the siblings were crying and terrified.

 

Soon after I received a letter from a debt collection agency on behalf of the car finance company, telling me they wanted over £4000 (more than the value of the car in the first place) and after I had paid over 1/3rd of the balance - which I assume is what was stated in the above letter?

 

Now on my Sale Agreement there is a section that says:

 

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REPOSSESSION: YOUR RIGHTS

If you fail to keep your side of this agreement but you have paid at least one third of the total amount payable under this agreement, we may not take back the good against your will unless we get a court order.

If we do take them without your consent or a court order, you have the right to get back all the money you have paid under this agreement.

-------------------------------------------------

 

Obviously the heavies did not have a court order, and took the car using bully tactics, so this agreement was broken.

 

I sent a copy of the letter stating that I had reached my "Conditional Sale Agreement" to the original finance company, along with a letter stating what had happened and that if they wanted to pursue the matter I would be expecting to be reclaim the money I had paid so far.

 

From what I remember, on the phone they told me the letter they had sent was sent "in error" and that I was still liable to pay. I said "That is not my fault, I can only go off what you tell me" and they said they would get in touch with someone else.

I can't really remember what was said after this, as it was so long ago and it was a phone call.

 

Anyway, I heard nothing back, and got on with my life, moving address 3 times during this period until now.

 

Cut to last week, I receive a letter from another debt collection agency who have obviously bought the debt, claiming that I still owe almost £4000 to the original finance company who sent me the letter stating I had met the "Conditional Sale Agreement" in the first place.

 

Now, I sent them letter N or L from this website, the one asking them to provide a copy of the Original Sale Agreement and sent a PO for £1. Three days later I get a letter back saying:

 

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I would advise that we do not hold copy Credit Agreements at this office, as we are not the Creditor. Under the circumstances your PO for £1 is returned herewith.

 

However, your account has been placed on hold and we have requested our client to send these documents to you directly.

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Is this a valid response, or do they have some legal responsibilty as the people chasing me with FINAL DEMAND, CCJ, PAY NOW etc bullying/scare tactic letters to provide this themselves?

 

Now luckily I am a horder and I still have all the original paperwork, letters and Sale Agreement here from 2001.

 

Last time I just sent them the letters proving they had broken the agreement and left it at that, but this time after nearly 10yrs it has really got my goat - I don't think they expect me to still have the paperwork after all this time!

 

So, where do I stand?

 

Would I be best waiting for the Agreement to arrive then doing the same as before and leaving it?

If they say they can't find the agreement, should I leave it, or provide it myself and chase them?

 

Do I have any chance of reclaiming the money I paid as the agreement was broken?

Like I said last time they told me the letter stating this was sent in error, is this a valid excuse?

 

I don't have any payment records or receipts anymore, I just have the letters stating I had reached the "Condition Sale Agreement" - which I assume is the 1/3rd of the total mentioned on the Sale Agreement, and some letters with their record of my payments received.

 

I'm not even sure of the exact amount I paid, I just have their letter stating that it was over 1/3rd, yet their other letters stating "payments received" say the amount I paid is under the 1/3rd amount.

The letters stating "payments received" were sent after the one stating I had reached the "Conditional Sale Agreement and their interest in the vehicle has ceased".

 

I will not be paying the debt, that I am certain of, but now it has annoyed me so much that this may affect my credit rating I have been building over the years that I am wondering if legally I have any leg to stand on with regards to getting the money back I originally paid (re: broken agreement).

 

I have left out names of companies in case I broke any rules, but more info can be provided if required.

 

Any advice and help appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

PS. Sorry for the super long 1st post!

Edited April 20, 2011 by DoobyDude

[DoobyDude]

Also, I have just realised this may now be "Statute Barred" as it is from 2001.

 

I don't have any records of the last payment made, but I'm sure it would be no later than Q1 of 2003, probably earlier (end of 2002).

Have I sent the wrong letter in asking for a copy of the Credit Agreement?

 

Will me sending this re-open the case (as it were) and not make this Statute Barred anymore?

Not sure if this needs to be taken into consideration with regards to my OP?

 

Thanks again.

[dx100uk]

nope its well statute barred

 

very sad case and a real shame that , sadly, no you can do nowt about it today.

 

i would think all the paperwork is well distroyed...

 

...but! if they are chasing the debt, then they MUST have a CCA to do that...

 

so a poss its around,

 

the only thing you could hit them with is an insurance reclaim [PPI.GAP etc etc]

 

but you'll need the agreement.

 

who as the OC?

 

dx

[DoobyDude]

I do have the original agreement here in my paperwork.

Do you mean their paperwork will be destroyed?

 

Is all they need to chase the claim a copy of the original Credit Agreement? (same as the one I have here)

 

Sorry for my ignornace, what is a GAP/PPI (PPI = Payment Protection Insurance? Not sure how that applies?)

 

The OC, you mean Original Creditor/Claimant?

If so it is Direct Auto Finance / Direct Auto Financial Services Limited.

 

If I cannot do anything about this, it seems very unfair that they can hound me again after 10yrs and bring this all up, but there is nothing I can do about them breaking the agreement in the first place.

 

Still unsure of my next step, but I guess wait and see if they send me any paperwork as I requested?

[postggj]

who is the debt agency

 

godebt

marlin

[DoobyDude]

The debt agency now chasing the debt (the most recent letter) says:

 

Pursuers: Aktiv Kapital UK Limited

Creditor: Direct Auto Financial Services Ltd

 

The letter however, is headed, and signed from: "Buchanan Clark & Wells"

 

This is who I requested a copy of the agreement from, and sent the PO with the letter from this site.

 

I am now worried I have done the wrong thing, and should have sent the Statute Barred letter instead.

As dx100uk says there is nothing I can do to reclaim, I hope I havn't opened a can of worms here and will end up having this legally enforced and have to pay.

[postggj]

no, they cant hound you after 10 years

 

send the statute barred template to aktiv kapital by recorded delivery and this will then end

 

do you have a copy of the template

[postggj]

dx

 

aktiv kapital doing this

 

whats happening with marlin and godebt then?????

[DoobyDude]

@postggj:

I have a copy of the template here which I saved when I also printed the Agreement letter.

I will print the statute barred letter and send tomorrow.

It should go direct to Aktiv Kapital, or to Buchanan Clark & Wells?

 

I do not have any reference numbers with regards to Aktiv and this case.

 

Not sure of the reference to marlin and godebt?

 

Thanks for the quick replies!

[postggj]

you send the statute barred letter by recorded delivery to the people who last demanded money from you

 

what address is used to send payments to is the address to send the statute barred template

 

enclose a copy of that letter with the template

 

and forget marlin/godebt

 

they are old friends of dx and myself

[DoobyDude]

Ah OK, it did confuse me for a minute there!

 

The last people to demand money were Buchanan Clark & Wells (BCW Group Ltd,Glasgow)

 

This is where I also sent the Letter requesting the credit agreement.

Does it matter I will be sending the Statute Barred so soon after the other one, and that they have said they are requesting the company to send this to me directly?

 

Should I wait for this paperwork (if it arrives) or send ASAP?

 

Lastly, there is really nothing I can do about the broken agreement, even though I have all the relevant original paperwork?

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

pass the parcel.phishing letter.

 

what i mean by insurances is how to hit them back for what they did to you unlawfully all those years ago.

 

you have the agreent

 

let hit them for a PPI reclaim and anything else on the ins front they hit you for...

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[postggj]

the agreement is history

 

once they receive the statute barred template then all collection and enforcement action has to stop. that includes selling the debt etc

be it they suply the agreement or not makes no difference

 

the agreement/debt is history under the limitations act

 

send the statute barred template recorded delivery tomorow

 

the sooner they get it the sooner it all ends:-)

[DoobyDude]

@dx:

OK mate I will get them all scanned and posted up now, thanks!

 

@postggj:

Ah right OK, so there is no need/point in posting up the agreements etc as per dx requested?

 

Sorry for my lameness with regards to all these laws and limitations!

[dx100uk]

yea but he can still get the ppi back!

 

dx

[postggj]

dx is right

 

claming back ppi or any micky mouse insurance is not covered by the limitations act

 

its when you became aware thats important

 

realy make the dca day with that one

 

but send the statute barred template with immediate effect

 

we can claim back the micky mouse insurance at our lesiure

[postggj]

still post up the agreement for us to work on

 

deleate all personal info but leave in the figures

[DoobyDude]

OK - thanks you SO much guys!

 

I will get scanning in a few minutes!

[DoobyDude]

OK, I've scanned the documents and converted to PDF.

Here are the documents in date order...

 

 

8/11/02 - The Original Conditional Sale Agreement

 

Agreement.1.CL.pdf

 

Agreement.2.CL.pdf

 

Not sure if you need the other side with all the small print?

 

16/9/02 - Letter stating "Conditional Sale Agreement has been reached"

 

Cond.Sale.Ag.Reached.pdf

 

18/10/02 - Letter signed by Repossession Agents (thugs) on night car was taken

 

Repossessed.Signed.pdf

 

8/11/02 - Letter of Termination and outstanding balance

 

Termination.pdf

Edited April 20, 2011 by DoobyDude

[DoobyDude]

15/4/11 - Most recent letter asking for payment

Latest.Letter.pdf

 

As you can see:

 

1) I signed the Conditional Sale Agreement.

2) Received letter stating "Conditional Sale Agreement has been completed".

3) Car repossessed by thugs, got them to sign letter.

4) Received letter stating Outstanding Balance.

5) Letter asking for payment - 9yrs later!

 

Thanks in advance for any help, if any more info is required let me know!

[dx100uk]

well there is certainly +£2.5k there you can reclaim with interest!!

 

 

see what the cheeky buggers have done

 

they've taken off you cash deposit.

then added it again to the borrowed sum before calculating interst too!

 

and you cash deposit has been taken off the INSURANCE not the CAR price

 

seem to remember something aboutt that Postggj....

 

i think it invalidates the whole agreement

 

look back under posts from postggj and yes car credit

 

dx

[DoobyDude]

I have looked over the agreement, but numbers are not my strong point....still £2.5k!?!? - WOW!!....I am amazed at that!

 

I was 18 and needed a car to keep my job at the time of this agreement, so didn't really focus on the in/outs of the agreement as losing my job was not an option for me at this time....and yes the car was bought from Yes Car Credit as being so young / no credit record there was nowhere else I could go (I did try).

 

So what do I need to do for this PPI thing and claiming it back?

Also, how could I claim back that amount in PPI when I didn't finish the agreement, it was ended early (repossessed)?

I assume this will then be pro rata, but maybe less than I even paid to them in installments?

 

I will look now for postggj as you said, and try and find some info on PPI claims and getting money back.

I honestlt thought it was just for credit cards, didn't even think to apply it to a car finance deal.

 

Thanks for your time mate, really appreciate your help and advice.

[dx100uk]

it applies to anything that has PPI.......

 

 

if you look at agreement page 1

10.11.12

the bit that STINKS is:

14 - less your cash deposit!! that was for the CAR!! notoff the fleecing insurances!!

 

then they add it BACK ON at 18 - the little fleecers!!

 

from that you should be able to work out how much of your PCM was the PPI

 

then all you do is for every monthly payment [of PPI] YOU ACTUALLY MADE you add 8% stat int from THE DATE YOU PAID IT - to the date of your claim.

 

use:

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

rests = 12

 

days = 360

 

dx

[DoobyDude]

Wow, you make it all sound so easy!

 

Following your advice I noticed what you said, they added the £210 back on at (18.)

Also then when taking it over to the left hand side (13.) and (14.), Less Vehicle Deposit (2.) is left blank and it isnt even taken off the Cash Price (1.) of the car.

 

Am I right in saying this means they literally just "took" the £210 off me and it didn't deduct it from anything!?!?

 

I don't have a record of how many payments were made or when, no receipts or anything, and the amount they have said I paid in total on one of the letters doesn't equally divide by the monthly payment amount to a whole number, but as I said numbers are not my strong point.

 

I had a look at the link you posted, but I don't have the numbers to put into it, as per above.

 

Sorry for being useless!

 

PS. I used advanced search and didn't find any posts by postggj with relation to Yes Car Credit, but I did find a lot of similar posts with relation to YCC / DAF, and links to the saynotoyes forum, but sadly the last posts in that place are from 2007.

[dx100uk]

i think you are not finding them because we have database errors at present

 

and yes you've spotted the £200 to pocket, prob the rep that sold you the car.

 

AND they would have got commission on the sale of the insurances.....

 

 

 

dx