First Great Western Problem

[Maxwell TM]

FGW do have an official policy (re Police travel) and all guards have a copy, or should have.

 

This doesn't alter the fact, (as pointed out by Wriggler 7), that a member of staff OK'd the OP's travel arrangements, thus providing a valid Byelaw 18 defence and also negating a Penalty Fare demand.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Maxwell TM

[Grotesque]

Apologies, Maxwell, and thanks for that clarification: I was judging by experience with a (different) TOC in discussion of which a frequently-used phrase contains the words 'organising'; 'inebriation'; and 'brewery' often occur

[egg12345]

Hi Again

 

Thank you to all again.

 

I just wanted to say that there was no caution, nothing, just a couple of questions/statememts and then left in limbo as I say, very perculiar and which made me worry (alot).

 

How long should I wait for a letter? I don't want sleepless nights for ever/ is there a cut off date after the event to respond to defendants?

 

If he hasn't reported me and just went through the motions I will never know and keep waiting for something to drop through the letterbox that is why I expected to be told what would happen next. Should I have been told what to expect, i.e You will be reported or you will hear from us? Also, if he was going to report me should I have been formally cautioned before being questioned?

 

All very disturbing but from information I have greatly received with thanks the signed letter of today from the ticket office chap should suffice and will hopefully be accepted under the bylaw 18 defence.

 

Thank you all again, your input is extremely valuable.

 

Kind regards

[SRPO]

Unusually in this situation I would advise you to contact the customer services dept. to find out if the matter has been reported & if so what stage it is at.

You have nothing to worry about in terms of any action against you, as you are protected by the byelaw 18(3) defence.

[Maxwell TM]

Apologies, Maxwell, and thanks for that clarification: I was judging by experience with a (different) TOC in discussion of which a frequently-used phrase contains the words 'organising'; 'inebriation'; and 'brewery' often occur

 

 

None needed. Glad to assist.

[egg12345]

Hi

 

I would certainly prefer there to be no agreement that one which is not explained to FGW staff or one where differenr members do different things as I would hate another colleague from any force to have to go through this, it just isn't correct.

 

Again, I really appreciate people taking the time to comment on this.

 

Thank you

[thelife]

Hi Egg, I didn't mean to come over rude or nosey in my asking about what you were wearing. I was just wondering how the ticket guy knew you were in the police if you weren't wearing it.

 

To be honest, I think the more public sector staff being allowed to use public transport the better. Especially at off-peak times. No point in the state being charged for its employees and then providing subvention.

 

On top of this, I am sure a PCSO would step in to protect a vulnerable person and therefore could be useful to have on board.

 

I have a friend who is a police officer, formerly of the Met, but moved North. He sometimes takes the train down to go to court. Friendly train managers have upgraded him to first class FOC in the past.

[Old-CodJA]

Yes MaxwellTM, I was aware that FGW have a local policy for Police Officers and that's why I said some local agreements may exist, but they do not extend to civilian support staff.

 

Since well before privatisation ( over 15 years ago now, doesn't time fly!!) it was always accepted by TTIs & RPIs that they would not be unduly concerned if a Police Officer showed his or her warrant when asked for a ticket and some companies have semi formalised that by briefing through revenue management staff accordingly. The Met have a formal arrangement for Officers in the London area.

 

I have more than once had the problem of dealing with issues arising from the fact that there is no national agreement and many misunderstandings do occur. In recent years there has been a perception that there is a rise in abuse of trust in some areas and a hardening of attitudes by some, whilst others maintain the friendliness that I think we would all prefer.

 

Egg, I think the best suggestion that I can offer is to take a photo-copy of the statement from the booking clerk who admits his mistake and send it with a short, but firm & polite letter giving the date, time and place of the incident and explaining that you boarded in good faith following the instruction of the member of staff identified by the statement. Offer to pay the fare that would have been charged if you had not been wrongly informed.

 

It is my belief that any TOC Customer Service staff worthy of that job title should write back, apologising for the error and writing-off any liability for that journey.

[Stigy]

I think you should be okay. I assumed you were questionined under caution at the time? That being the case, it was likely that you were asked if anybody gave you permission to travel without a ticket, and you can state (not many can!) that you were told you were allowed to use your Police Staff ID card. That couple with, from what I gather, a signature to suggest that you were indeed illadvised, should make FGW see where the confusion lay.

 

Edit: Just seen that you were not under caution at the time. This doesn't alter much in relation to the possible outcome, it's just less scripted. Some staff don't caution as they haven't been suitably trained.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Stigy

[egg12345]

Hello again,

 

Hi thelife, no offence was taken I appreciated you comments, thank you.

 

OldcodJA, Thank you again for your advice. I'll draft a letter and send a copy of teh signed letter I have. I am sure that they will see whre teh confucion lies. I'll also offer to pay the fare of £14,90 I beleive it should be as I accept no one should eb travelling fro free as these companies are profit driven, I have no problems in paying for transport and services. I take it I write to FGW customer services or do I get the address of the Prosecutions unit?

 

Stigy, no, no caution was given and that's why I though the situation was really strange especially when i was not given further instructions or information an dteh RPI just walked off!

 

Thank you all again.

 

Kind regards

[Grotesque]

Just ocurred to me (re: your offer to pay the fare £14.90) whether they can legally claim previous unpaid fares from you for the same journey; which you have admitted (obviously, since you were told you could!).

 

This is more out of curiousity on the legsal aspect rather than your specific case Egg, as they will probably deem themselves to have c*cked-up enough already with you.

[RPI]

Everything posted is spot on, you are immune from prosecution under 18(1) with that letter! I also like to have police officers on my train as you never know when you'll need one (and on many occasions I've been greatful of the help of police officers who come up and flash their badge when i'm getting grief of some scrote!)

when they write to you it may be worth enclosing a cheque for the amount of the normal single fare for the journey you made.

[egg12345]

Thank you all again for taking the time to respond to me.

 

I'll certainly write to them and when I receive any correspondence from them I'll also enclose a cheque payment and request a receipt.

Thank you.

 

Kind regards