Moorcroft - No Agreement

[manwest]

On the 24th January I sent a CCA request to Moorcroft recorded delivery and also included the £1 postal order. Today I have received a letter with the £1 postal order attached. The letter confirms that at this time their client is currently unable to prove a signed copy of the agreement relating to the account. It goes on to say please be aware this doesn't mean the debt doesn't exist in the eyes of the court. I've attached a copy of the letter I received today as I do not know what I do from here. I don't want to be taken to court and receive court fees.

Any help would be great

MoorcroftNoAgreement Erased.pdf

[cerberusalert]

They do like to play games don't they?

 

The key phrase is in the second paragraph... the debt is legally unenforceable until they produce a properly executed document. You can either send the 'in dispute' letter or ignore... the choice is yours.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

[PriorityOne]

You don't need to do anything. There's no Agreement (for now anyway), so what they're really saying is that it can't/won't be legally enforced but they're asking you for the money anyway. They've just used the word "court" to intimidate you into believing you'll end up in one...

 

File it away.

 

 

Post crossed with Cerb's....

Edited February 1, 2011 by PriorityOne
post crossed

[Tingy]

Now why would they offer that discount if they could still get the whole lot? Possibly a little bit of a giveaway?

[firstship]

Manwest Hi agree with Cerb and P1 what I can never understand in this situation is so there is no agreement available at the moment,so why dont they send a Reconstituted Agreement anybody got any ideas?

 

I hope the OC is not Barclaycard,after waisting my time for 19 months they produced the agreement.

 

all the best FS

[manwest]

The OC was Egg.

[Tingy]

You're lucky! I thought Egg normally had their agreements.

[manwest]

Does it matter if Moorcroft have returned the postal order? Does this mean the CCA request is cancelled? Hope that's not a stupid question. Can I just wait now to see if and when they produce an agreement. Will I keep getting letters from Moorcroft?

[PriorityOne]

Does it matter if Moorcroft have returned the postal order? Does this mean the CCA request is cancelled? Hope that's not a stupid question. Can I just wait now to see if and when they produce an agreement. Will I keep getting letters from Moorcroft?

 

No it doesn't matter.... just hang on to all correspondence for your own records.

 

[manwest]

Thanks ..... Will keep hold of everything and sit and wait to see what happens. If I get more letters from Moorcroft should I reply?

[Happyhippy1959]

up to you really Manwest, as has been pointed out it is unenforcable, so what are they going to do???????? I would sit back and offer them a £10.00 full and final settlement, adding of course acceptenance within 7 day's of reciept. Then if they refuse, down to £5.00.

 

You get my drift. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm it's a wonder they did not hit you with the word MORAL DUTY TO PAY now that is rather a cheeky word for DCA's to use, but I have seen it on others who have got this kind of reply... pointing out that case where it is unenforceable but the debt still exists.

 

Basically in a nutshell I lend you £100.00 without any terms or conditions or contract. In a pub on a night out. Then I ask for payment you say, bog off hippy... ok I will take you to court, but hang on a minute, where's the proof I ever loaned you the money and did i do so in a legal manner. Judge say's bog off hippy in my head I know you lent Manwest the money due to his new lawn he had put down the next day and he told the garden centre hippy loaned him the money but sorry no paperwork hippy. Judge turns to you and say's you did borrow the money I think morally you should pay Hippy back but I can't force you to. Simple I know. The ball is in your moral court now. But lets put a spin on my £100.00 I loaned you and say I said pay me back at £10.00 a month but hey I am going to charge you 25% interest and don't worry you can keep borrowing up to the original £100.00 oh and by the way if your late by a minute I am going to add on £20.00. You have had this loan from me for five years, the interest and charges have amounted to say £400.00, have I had value for money..... and I have the cheek to now ask you to pay me even though a judge as said I cannot force him to hippy!!!!!! THINK I KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO.

[Bazooka Boo]

Moorcr@p love lemons don't they!

[Happyhippy1959]

Bazooka, Moorcrap are lemons,,,,, hence there love of all things lemon....!!!!!! Could they not just head there paperwork PRE-LEMON-I-HAVE-BOUGHT-A-LEMON DEPARTMENT????? Forget the £10.00 and £5.00 full and final settlement. Offer them 2LB of lemons as a full and final settlement. Maybe they will get it.... (no don't think they will) mind you it's the law of averages for them buy a thousand lemons for next to nothing you are bound to get a 10% return so it's worth there lemons shall we say... Unfortunately, due to a blight on DCA's such as the CAG blight,,,, it is beginning to take a toll on there lemon crop...!!!!!!! and if as we suspect the government are getting rid of hundreds of CAB debt advisor's this is the time for CAG to really flourish.... Moorcrap must be crapping it.... Lemon stocks down again me thinks.

 

Just on a personal note, I have different coloured paper for different moods and correspondence. As luck would have it I have lemon as one of me colours. Guess what,,,, Moorcrap are going to get that colour from now on with a big embellished lemon in the top right hand corner...

[Happyhippy1959]

To all moorcrap clients

 

Please feel free to use.

File0001.PDF

[manwest]

After receiving the last letter from Moorcroft stating Egg didn't have the agreement I have now received the letter attached which basically says I'm not keeping up the agreed payment and if I don't pay they'll recommend the client instruct their solicitors to commence legal proceedings against me. If this is just to scare then it works! Got a feeling I'll be getting a lot of these letters.

Moorcroft_req_payment.pdf

[Tingy]

If they cannot produce an agreement they are not legally allowed to enforce the debt. As soon as they produce an original or a reconstituted one then they can begin enforcement proceedings again.

 

You can either ignore them, or if you want to send a letter, send the one from the library no cca account in dispute.

[cerberusalert]

Send them this; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

[intend]

Subbing -

Manwest - had same first letter as you - undated - regarding no CCA from client - just waited for 12+2 - sent failure letter today.

Will post anything that might be of use to you ( do have my own thread ) more i read more think most responses are just drivel

 

Intend

[Bazooka Boo]

If this is just to scare then it works! Got a feeling I'll be getting a lot of these letters.

 

That is exactly why they send them, to scare threaten and intimidate people in their own homes! You'd think there would be a Law against sending out threatening letters!

Oooh! Whadya know...

1 Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety.E+W

 

(1)Any person who sends to another person—

 

(a)a [F1letter, electronic communication or article of any description] which conveys—

 

(i)a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;

 

(ii)a threat; or

 

(iii)information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender; or

 

(b)any [F2article or electronic communication] which is, in whole or part, of an indecent or grossly offensive nature,

 

is guilty of an offence if his purpose, or one of his purposes, in sending it is that it should, so far as falling within paragraph (a) or (b) above, cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

 

(2)A person is not guilty of an offence by virtue of subsection (1)(a)(ii) above if he shows—

 

(a)that the threat was used to reinforce a demand [F3made by him on reasonable grounds]; and

 

(b)that he believed [F4, and had reasonable grounds for believing,] that the use of the threat was a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

 

[F5(2A)In this section “electronic communication” includes—

 

(a)any oral or other communication by means of a telecommunication system (within the meaning of the Telecommunications Act 1984 (c. 12)); and

 

(b)any communication (however sent) that is in electronic form.]

 

(3)In this section references to sending include references to delivering [F6or transmitting] and to causing to be sent [F7, delivered or transmitted] and “sender” shall be construed accordingly.

 

(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to [F8imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both].

 

And that's just for starters. The reason why these corrupt organisations act above the Law, is simply because they have been doing it for so long it's second nature, that and the fact that no-one has used the Law against them successfully, after all, if they can get away with the Beryl Brazier case, then that will have done nothing but to make them feel they can act with near impunity.

 

Ignore the puerile fools, report them to the OFT&TS via consumer direct threatening to carry out actions and enforcement, when they can't.

And drop a line to your Local MP too.

[manwest]

Thanks for all your replies ..... Why have they sent the letter stating the client doesn't have the agreement without a date? Do you think there's a reason why they don't want it dated or just a mistake?

[intend]

Uddated!! - Would not assume a mistake - I'm sure more knowledgeable folk than me will know.

 

Intend

[Bazooka Boo]

I wouldn't give another milliseconds thought. File it away, lodge a complaint, and worry not, who really cares what they are trying to say in their simple letters, it is pointless trying to read between the lines and second guess such puerile minds.

[Iamharrassed]

I have had a similar letter from Moorcroft telling me their client doesn't have the Agreement, but they cashed my cheque, well a cheque I sent that someone else provided for me. They also went on the say that the debt was still enforceable and gave me 14 days to make a payment. They are still waiting....

[Happyhippy1959]

Good advice from Bazooka and harrassed manwest. Just let the suckers go and stew. If all the people moorcrap sent letters to just did nothing they would not last too long. Who do these cretins think they are..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DCA's gone are the day's now when people tremble these sites give us the power... Better than Luke Skywalker's force

 

Great budgie cage linings though!!!!

[Bazooka Boo]

What was the cheque for? A CCA? If they have failed to reply to your request and issue the CCA, then you MUST demand they return the statutory fee.