cabot/morgan solicitors charging order

[jag-world]

Hi everyone, need a litlle help!

received a charging order on 14th jan via morgans solicitor acting for cabot for the grand olde sum of £8500 for a disputed citi c/c which i opened in 2002, no letters prior to this informing me of any court action, wrote to morgans for a true signed copy of my cca 1974, morgans have responded back -

 

your letter purpouts to be a formal request pursuant to s.78(1) consumer credit act 1974 requesting a signed copy of the agreement made between the assignor and yourself and a copy of the exucuted deed of assignment.

 

The statutory authority to which you refer imposes a duty upon a creditor to provide to the debtor a copy of a regulated agreement entered into between the debtor and the creditor. However once proceedings have been issued, and a judgment obtained by the creditor, the agreement is at a end. The creditor becomes the judgment creditor and as a consquence any request made under s78 (1) is rendered nugatory as the requirements under s.78 (1) cannot be fulfilled as the agreement is no longer"...under a credit regulated agreement"

 

We would also mention that non compliance with s.78 (1) of the consumercredit act 1974 no longer constitutes a criminal offence as such liability was repealed by the consumer act 2006.

 

??????? credit card taken out in 2002 so cca 1974 not amended 2006 cca and agreement was with citi not cabot monkeys! Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Edited January 27, 2011 by jag-world

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

I'm going to move this thread to the Legal Issues forum.

 

As you didn't receive court papers, you may be able to set this judgement aside. Others will pop by and advise

[debbbbsy]

In order to get a charging order, they must have gained a CCJ.

 

The CCJ becomes your agreement, once that is breached they can go fo a charging order.

 

Did you receive the court papers for the CCJ ?

If so, did you admit or defend the claim ?

 

They are correct, they do not have to comply with a CCA request once they have judgement, unless they are applying Post Judgement Interest.

 

Debs

[jag-world]

Hi Debs, no court papers recieved, ccj was given in Nov without my knowledge, have been on electoral register at same address for almost 10 years so i know it couldnt be posted anywhere else, dont these have to be sent by registered post?

[jag-world]

I know im probably clutching to straws, but are there any new coalition rules coming into effect on the 1st Feb 2011 regarding charging orders can only be made for amounts over 25k? Its sickening would have contested claim if i had court date, Cabot also requesting interest on alleged amount. Surely they still have to show how and where this alleged amount has come from to the court and send a few letters out before court procedings or am i missing something or can they get judgments via back door these days. Have 220k equaty and 8.5k of alleged debt with 2 young children at home, any ideas on way foward with N244 form or reply to cabot?

Edited January 28, 2011 by jag-world

[kirsun10]

Hi

 

I was very interested in reading your situation and want you to know all is not lost.

 

Let me tell you my story:

 

I received threats by phone and letters by Cabot regarding 3 debts that I had owed or not owed from Cabot. They stated if I did not make some payment arrangement they would take me to court and get a charging order on my property. This scared me as I have a young family to support and their future depends on me. I agreed to a payment plan that went wrong after a couple of payements as I lost my job. I explained this to them and still they sent court papers . As a scared person I admitted the debts and offered the payments I could afford.

 

The court gave judgement against me, and payments were were acceptable. However they went a step further and told the court as the debt was £13000.00 they needed additional security and abtained a charging order against my property.

 

This was done by default, and on receiving these notices it upset me so much.

 

This is where this site was my saviour. I requested the CCA. for documents pertaining to the so called loans. They kept on writing letters that they received my request and are awaiting the info from the lenders.

 

They sent letters as they did to you, but this is intimidation not law.

 

I got annoyed and I applied at the county court for a set aside for failure to provide this information as required by the consumer credit act. The judge set aside the judgement and the took the charge away from the property. The only condition being, if they provide this information they can proceed with the case. I waited a year still nothing, then I received a wad of document half of which I did not understand but in there was the documents i requested.

 

The Directions of the court were then to proceed with trial on 3 occassions as evidence needed to be gathered. 3 times at a hearing...Boring. The final direction was for me to submit a defence and for Cabot a Case and a case file.

 

They did this and my defence, if you require more info let me know, was 4 pages. They had 2 ringbinders full.

 

The trial was to last 3 hours, and a witness from Morgans was to be present.

 

Before the trial which was on 27.01.11 I was sent a bill for solicitors expences from morgans in the excess of £4000.00. which I threw in the bin.

 

The dat came I was scared, their coucel came to me before the trial and said do you want to negociate an agreement. I said no, I would like to rely on the defence I have submitted. He had his witness from Morgan's there.

 

When we were called I was really scared I did not have a solicitor, and told the judge that I could not afford one. I think that softened him a bit. However I was put on the stand and told to give evidence and the guy from Morgan's had to do the same. He was clueless and could not confirm nor deny the legalities of certain aspects of the CCA rules and kept refering it to his councel.

 

The case that was meant to be allocated 3 hours lasted all day, and do you know the shock of it I won the case on a technicality on CCA rules that they fail to adhere to, or forget to do. This was in my defence and this insight was gained from this site.

 

I love this site it inspirational. I will assist you if you need a copy of my defence.

Edited February 1, 2011 by kirsun10

[jag-world]

Hi Kirsun, thanks so much for your reply, was starting to loose all hope, i took from an earlier post that once judgment has been given they dont have to comply for a requested cca because the ccj is the agreement now, so using this as a defence, i would be wasting my time, please tell me im wrong! BUT in a previous letter Morgans have stated they will be supplying a copy of the agreement taken out in 2002 with citi in what form i can only guess, which i have still not seen. Would be very grateful of any advice on how to proceed with this.

[debbbbsy]

 

Hi ring the courts, and find out to which address the court docs were sent. Find out why you never recieved them.

 

Once you have established the facts, submit an N244 (you can print this from the court website), make an application to have the CCJ set a side.

 

 

Is this an Interim Charging order, with a date set for your local court. Or have they actually been granted the Charging Order.

 

Debs

[kirsun10]

Hi Kirsun, thanks so much for your reply, was starting to loose all hope, i took from an earlier post that once judgment has been given they dont have to comply for a requested cca because the ccj is the agreement now, so using this as a defence, i would be wasting my time, please tell me im wrong! BUT in a previous letter Morgans have stated they will be supplying a copy of the agreement taken out in 2002 with citi in what form i can only guess, which i have still not seen. Would be very grateful of any advice on how to proceed with this.

 

More than likely the actual defen ce you could use on you N244 to set aside is the fact that you have not received any offical court documentation and that you have not had any proof of the actual agreement. The fact is, you must act fast.Do this now. Another defence in my view is that this may be statute barred and they should not have got a judgement in the first place. However that depends on when you made your last payments.

 

I actually held on to the judgeent and the final charging order for a year before I actually fought it. I won because the threats they make are usually just that. They cannot get the documentation on time, and when they actually do the document they do give are not actually admissable.

 

Have letters for the court to prove you have made a CCA requests, and be adamant as to this must be received.

 

If you need I will scan a copy of my N244 if that helps, and the all document pertaining to the whole 2.5 year saga.

 

Remember I got all court documents but still won.

[kirsun10]

Hi Kirsun, thanks so much for your reply, was starting to loose all hope, i took from an earlier post that once judgment has been given they dont have to comply for a requested cca because the ccj is the agreement now, so using this as a defence, i would be wasting my time, please tell me im wrong! BUT in a previous letter Morgans have stated they will be supplying a copy of the agreement taken out in 2002 with citi in what form i can only guess, which i have still not seen. Would be very grateful of any advice on how to proceed with this.

 

More than likely the actual defence you could use on your N244 to set aside is the fact that you have not received any offical court documentation and that you have not had any proof of the actual agreement. The fact is, you must act fast. Do this now. Another defence in my view is that this may be statute barred and they should not have got a judgement in the first place. However that depends on when you made your last payments.

 

I actually held on to the judgeent and the final charging order for a year before I actually fought it. I won because the threats they make are usually just that. They cannot get the documentation on time, and when they actually do the document they do give are not actually admissable.

 

Have letters for the court to prove you have made a CCA requests, and be adamant as to this must be received.

 

If you need I will scan a copy of my N244 if that helps, and the all document pertaining to the whole 2.5 year saga.

[sunnydee]

Hi

Thought i needed to reply to this thread, i am also at court tommorow with Morgans solicitors, who again are requesting a charging order, here is a bit of back ground information, original debt 7250.00. in May last year. Maintained payements, in June Morgans took me back to court for redetermination / charging order, I attended no representative from Morgans, the Judge went in my faavoiour and informed me that as long as I made the agreed payments, a C/O would not be granted.

Well thhis is where it gets interesteng, as well as making agreed payments i have als made two lump sums of £700.00 and £2300.00, this was a PPI payment to my husband as he is unable to work, silly me i paid it off this debt.

In November I contacted Morgans solicitors requesting a reduction of paymennt to £28.00 a month, and would they take into consideration the lump sums made.

I had no contact from Morgans untill the 4th of Jan, which a leter agreeing the £28.00, but would request a charging order to secure the debt, the court pappers followed a few days later, no it gets intersting, the papers state that only a payment of £76.00 had been made and not the correct amount of £3200.00

I have evidence of these payments. I contacted Morgans solicitores and highlighted the discrepancies and was told "oh yes we can see these payments were incorrect, and the updated paperwork would be sent before the court date.

I have not received any such paperwork, I have ensured a witness statmnt was sent to the court well in time, which they have received, explaining all these dicrepancies.

What would my be my next steps at court tommorow as I am defending myself, really nervous again.

Thank you

Sunnydee.

[debbbbsy]

Hi, sunnydee,

 

Take along all the paperwork. Statements showing that aswell as complying with the Judgement order, you have also made substantial payments to the claimant to reduce the debt.

 

I had no contact from Morgans untill the 4th of Jan, which a leter agreeing the £28.00, but would request a charging order to secure the debt, the court pappers followed a few days later, no it gets intersting, the papers state that only a payment of £76.00 had been made and not the correct amount of £3200.00

 

If the claim is inaccurate, show it. Did you agree to the charging order when you reduced the payments to £28.

 

Might be worth starting your own thread.

 

Debs

[jag-world]

Hi Debbs / Kirsun, (Hi Sunnydee its another sleepless night! just lost my job over these sleepless nights so i know how it feels) Interim charging order in Norwich court around 19 days time and 100 miles from where i live, stopped all payments for the whole disputed amount in 2008 ( no crime number could be from given by poilce because lack of details supplied by Citi, only name of company and area on account statement no other details were sent in writing) But why are Morgans / Cabot writing back confirming that they will go to the bother of supplying a copy of a cca i took out in 2002 in what form i can only still guess, when they have put in writing they have no legal obligation to do so, or is it all hot air and are the still legaly obliged to do so under the 1974 agreement, i know the amended 2006 will not stand ( scheldue 3 - s11 cca 2006, prevents s15 repealing s127 (3) of the 1974 act for agreements made before s15 came into affect) Since the agreement would have commenced prior to the inception of the cca 2006, section 15 of the 2006 act has no affect and the cca 1974 is the relavant in this case. Spoke to Morgans today, letter of court date was sent BUT they told me it was sent back NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS!

Edited February 1, 2011 by jag-world

[PriorityOne]

Hi Debbs / Kirsun, (Hi Sunnydee its another sleepless night!) Interim charging order in Norwich court around 19 days time and 100 miles from where i live, stopped all payments for the whole disputed amount in 2008 ( no crime number given from poilce because lack of details supplied by Citi, only name of company and area on account statement) But why are Morgans / Cabot writing back confirming that they will supply a copy of a cca i took out in 2002, when they have put in writing they have no legal obligation to do so, or is it all hot air and are the still legaly obliged to do so, i know the amended 2006 will not stand ( scheldue 3 - s11 cca 2006, prevents s15 repealing s127 (3) of the 1974 act for agreements made before s15 came into affect)

 

CCA 2006 is not retrospective for accounts that fall under CCA 1974, so sec 127 (3) still stands. If this is not part of your Defence, then it needs to be.

[debbbbsy]

Interim charging order in Norwich court around 19 days time and 100 miles

 

You can apply to the court to have it moved to your local court.

[sunnydee]

Hi Debs /Kirsun, thanks for the fast response

I have all the paper work ready for tommorow court papers from Morgans and statements showing the correct amount paid and not the made up figure which Morgans seem to have picked out of thin air. I didn't agree to the charging order, I was told it was gong to happen. I have never seen any agreements, I wish i had requested it when i was told i owed this amoint., but at that moment in time I was ignorant of legalities and just wanted to get it sorted as fast as possible.

I will update tommorow, when over and sorted, Hopefuly.

Sunnydee

[kirsun10]

If anyone is to win a case with Cabot and Morgans it is to stand firm and insist they provide information. These are the rules.

 

These people are total rats who scavenge upon the weak and timid. They do not expect a fight, they are happy to obtain judgements on default. However most of the methods they use are to intimidate the consumer who knows nothing about the law and rules they must abide by.

 

That is their only strength. They do deceive you in believing you have no options, but are they wrong. I await the judgement papers of the dismissal of their case and my victory and will forward all these to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

I will post my N244 and the defence I used in my next post. Being human and having a heart does help especially in front of a judge who has to listen to Lawyer speak all day.

Edited February 2, 2011 by kirsun10

[sunnydee]

Hi Debbs and Kirsun, Here is an update on todays charging order,

A representative from Morgans turned up, explained why we were at court, yes i know was my answer, I explained that i was oposing the charging order on the grounds of wrong information on the court paper.

He had no idea of what was going on, my witness statment never arrived at morgan or so he said. When in the diistrict judeges room i informed him of the discrepancies on the court papers, but the copy I suppmited to the court could not br found, although i contacted the courts office on monday to ensure all documents where filed, and told yes they are,. Anyway the dudge adjurned the order untill a second copy of my witness statment and evidence reached morgans and the court, then a half an hour hearing will be set and a decision made. Can you belive that morgans solicitor requested that i paid the court charges, to which the judges reply was basically no, we will wait untill the final hearing, I cant belive iv got to go through it all again.

Best wishes

Sunnydee

[jag-world]

Today have filed for defence using the N244 form, realy need to know if the debt is still legally bound by The Credit Consumer Act 1974, or is it the case when Cabot obtained a ccj without my knowledge i do loose my rights to the agreement and no statement of accounts are required and interest can be added to the alleged amount.

[BUTTERCUP7]

Hi

 

I was very interested in reading your situation and want you to know all is not lost.

 

Let me tell you my story:

 

I received threats by phone and letters by Cabot regarding 3 debts that I had owed or not owed from Cabot. They stated if I did not make some payment arrangement they would take me to court and get a charging order on my property. This scared me as I have a young family to support and their future depends on me. I agreed to a payment plan that went wrong after a couple of payements as I lost my job. I explained this to them and still they sent court papers . As a scared person I admitted the debts and offered the payments I could afford.

 

The court gave judgement against me, and payments were were acceptable. However they went a step further and told the court as the debt was £13000.00 they needed additional security and abtained a charging order against my property.

 

This was done by default, and on receiving these notices it upset me so much.

 

This is where this site was my saviour. I requested the CCA. for documents pertaining to the so called loans. They kept on writing letters that they received my request and are awaiting the info from the lenders.

 

They sent letters as they did to you, but this is intimidation not law.

 

I got annoyed and I applied at the county court for a set aside for failure to provide this information as required by the consumer credit act. The judge set aside the judgement and the took the charge away from the property. The only condition being, if they provide this information they can proceed with the case. I waited a year still nothing, then I received a wad of document half of which I did not understand but in there was the documents i requested.

 

The Directions of the court were then to proceed with trial on 3 occassions as evidence needed to be gathered. 3 times at a hearing...Boring. The final direction was for me to submit a defence and for Cabot a Case and a case file.

 

They did this and my defence, if you require more info let me know, was 4 pages. They had 2 ringbinders full.

 

The trial was to last 3 hours, and a witness from Morgans was to be present.

 

Before the trial which was on 27.01.11 I was sent a bill for solicitors expences from morgans in the excess of £4000.00. which I threw in the bin.

 

The dat came I was scared, their coucel came to me before the trial and said do you want to negociate an agreement. I said no, I would like to rely on the defence I have submitted. He had his witness from Morgan's there.

 

When we were called I was really scared I did not have a solicitor, and told the judge that I could not afford one. I think that softened him a bit. However I was put on the stand and told to give evidence and the guy from Morgan's had to do the same. He was clueless and could not confirm nor deny the legalities of certain aspects of the CCA rules and kept refering it to his councel.

 

The case that was meant to be allocated 3 hours lasted all day, and do you know the shock of it I won the case on a technicality on CCA rules that they fail to adhere to, or forget to do. This was in my defence and this insight was gained from this site.

 

I love this site it inspirational. I will assist you if you need a copy of my defence.

 

 

hello there

 

have just read your post and am very interested as i have a similar case

 

please can you send me a copy of your defence as you offered and i would be so grateful as i have to submist one by thursday

 

thank you

[kirsun10]

Dear HOLLYHOCK5

 

It would be interesting to know the whole story to date so that I can get an insight into your situation.

 

Thanks

 

Kirsun10

[cymruambyth]

Have you started your own thread? If so add a link for posters to give you help.