Howard Cohen pending legal action - is this CCA enforceable please? burton store card

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi all, I hope some of you great people can have a quick look at this problem for me please.

 

I have been paying an arrangement with CL finance for a cc taken out in 1988 and I have now received a letter threatening (promising) court action from Howard Cohen solicitors.

 

I have previously requested a CCA which I have posted here and also the letter from HC.

 

Howard cohen letter 11-10.pdf

Debs CC agreement.pdf

 

I cannot pay the outstanding amount so should I challenge the enforceability of the CCA?

 

or just accept another CCJ?

 

My circumstances are worse than ever and I am on benefits, so I guess the CCJ would be less than I was paying before.

 

 

Best wishes,

[Bazooka Boo]

HC's letter is a threat, not how it states that they have been instructed to issue court papers for non payment, then the very next sentence states that they will rely upon your reply, or lack of, in deciding what action to pursue?

They are talking themselves in circles, one paragraph says they are taking you to court, the very next states that they haven't decided what to do?

 

Although the tone of the letter is somewhat threatening, and laughable at the same time, it does merit a response.

If you have been paying them every month then I fail to see what they intend to gain from taking you to court? As the DJ will simply look at them and say that you have been paying them a payment up till now so what do they want?

If you can't pay the lump sum in one go, then the Judge won't force you to either!

 

The CCA albeit it is an application for a CC it does contain yours and their signature, but I cannot see a credit limit or approved limit, just references to it being sent to you at a later date, also your right to cancel, which will be sent at a later date, Unless, this was applied for in store or on their premises?

 

I am in two minds as to what to send them,??????

A CPR request or a questionable agreement??

I'll wait and see if anyone else has other ideas first.......

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi Bazooka,

 

I am behind with the agreement, couldn't make last month's payment. This happened before with CL and they went straight for a CCJ.

The CCA they sent is a scanned copy, and some of my signature is missing, but you can see it is mine.

 

It was a store card, taken out in the store in my innocent youth.

 

Can you send a CPR request even though it hasn't yet gone to court? The second page of HCs letter mentions CPR but I didn't understand it fully. Something to do with costs I think.

 

Thanks for your reply,

 

ps Is it worth asking the question - do you have the original CCA?

[Bazooka Boo]

The CPR request enables you to have sight of what it is they intend to rely upon in court to use against you, have you since made good this missed payment or not?

They have threatened you with legal action and referred to the CPR protocols so that IMO is good enough to hit them with a CPR request.

 

However hang fire until others give their advice and angle of attack on this.

The CCA they have sent is dubious in parts as to the points I raised, store cards are notoriously easy to deal with, well that is what I'm lead to believe!!

[Rocky Roadster]

Cheers,

 

Unfortunately, I got a snotty kid on the phone and they demanded a higher repayment level from the next month, so I haven't made any payment since (also broke)

 

I don't know whether it is relevant, but the CCA they sent has some alterations on it as well, some made by me and some made by the store.

[Rocky Roadster]

Here is my creditor diary for this CL finance account which gives a fuller picture:

 

23/06/2010 CCA request letter sent to CL Finance.

30/06/2010 CL F response letter.

22/07/2010 Dispute letter to CLF

28/07/2010 Letter from CLF with CCA.

02/08/2010 Rang CLF under pressure, offered £5 by 7 days; repayments back to arrangement next month.

Can't afford what they want

04/11/2010 Letter from H Cohen

[Rocky Roadster]

If it goes to court does the DCA have to produce the original signed agreement?

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes they have to produce the original agreement in court.

Any chance you can scan and post up what they have sent you in relation to your CCA request?

It is NOT up to them to dictate to you how much to pay, it is up to YOU to TELL THEM how much youw will be paying, and if that is the token payment of £1 a month, then so be it.

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi Bazooka, hope you had a good weekend.

 

Here is the response to my CCA request.

 

Debs CC agreement.pdf

 

Cheers,

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes thank you I had a good weekend, will need the rest of this week to recover!!!

The response they sent in relation to your request, was that the only paperwork they sent?

I would question the T&C's for a start, as I am confident that the T&C's in 1988 would have changed at least 2 or 3 times and therefore they should have sent you ALL alterations to the account, and again unless you signed this on their premises, there is no right to cancel, only references to it, no credit limit or approved limit, just references to it also, on that basis, I would dispute the account, unless you are in receipt of that information?

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi Bazooka, That was a good weekend!

 

This account is a debs card, signed in store, chased by G E Money and then bought by CL finance in June 2008. CLF sent a letter with a section headed notice of assignment, but G E Money never sent anything to confirm. I have posted all the relevant documents in reply to my CCA request.

 

I have today sent H Cohen a letter stating that the account is in dispute because the haven't supplied a legible, valid CCA. I will wait for their response. As solicitors it will be interesting to see how open they are.

 

This account is currently under dispute in that CL finance has failed to supply me with a legible true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

I now request you to confirm that you actually hold the original signed agreement. If you do not hold an agreement, then I require you to confirm this, or if you do hold the original signed agreement then I would ask that you to advise me in what form.

 

I can think of no valid reason why you should not provide me with a legible copy of the original-if it exists.

 

I would remind you that the OFT state that creditors should not imply or state that an enforceable agreement exists if that is not the case.

 

What do you think?

[Bazooka Boo]

Have a look at this letter template and edit to suit, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?415-POSSIBLE-Letter-when-a-questionable-agreement-application-is-sent.

 

If you signed this on their premises, then the right to cancel argument won't carry any substance, you should have been informed of this in store.

 

Have a read of this post as well for further clarification to an enforceable CCA.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?162851-Consumer-Credit-Agreements-a-guide-to-enforceability

[Rocky Roadster]

Very useful,thanks. I have bookmarked these.

Thanks Bazooka,

[Bazooka Boo]

This is what I was looking for, regarding the legibility of documents.

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced

in addition to any such Form.

(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/Consumer_Credit_%28Cancellation...cuments%29_Regulations_1983.pdf

[Rocky Roadster]

Again, very useful information, thanks.

I have several "agreements" that I consider to be illegible. If they go to court, they have to be able supply the original but my guess is they have sent what they have got.

Creation sent a letter with "an updated true copy of the agreement." after a lot of wriggling about signing the request. My request was July and they sent an agreement in October.

I have written to them using the template you pointed me to and giving them 21 days. The usual MO with unenforceable agreements seems to be that the creditor then sends a statement and bangs charges and interest on to frighten you.

 

I am having a good day today, and challenging the b*******s. The prospect of going to court is perversely exciting, rather than begging creditors to accept money I haven't got! Not much to lose I don't think. Probably panic when I do have to defend in court though.

 

Attack is the best form of defence.

Thanks again,